Real world choices.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

The problem with Lee Enfields is they are unwieldy and heavy.

Consider a modern, synthetic stocked rifle and how much easier it is to carry. Ain’t nothing wrong with a used firearm, I bet over half my collection is used. Bought off here and CGN.

Factory Lee Enfields are heavy, yes, but many of the sporterised versions are not .
Cat

[Bushleague]

Over the years I've dabbled in just about every hobby there is, and what I have found is that as long as one remains focused on the activity, most hobbies are pretty affordable. Once one gets focused on the gear, almost any hobby can keep you poor.

The one thing I've found through all of this, which has become almost a mantra that I tell myself whenever I start to get silly thoughts... Its rarely wise to get too serious about having fun.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Under-spending by your definition perhaps. Not by mine.

Iron sights still work, used rifles are not all junk, and the choices are greater then they ever were.

I never heard of a gun show when I was growing up.

Looking for the easiest and cheapest route to a perceived end isn’t always the most cost effective route.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Factory Lee Enforkds are heavy, yes, but many of the sporterised versions are not .
Cat

I've owned quite a few, the average weight for a hack job no1 sporter is about 7.5 lbs without a scope. While not a ultralight, it is by no means the boat anchor allot of folks make them out to be. Most rifles chambered in 45-70 weigh pretty close to that weight.

[Dick284]

The biggest thing lacking with today’s beginners to shooting and hunting, is the profound lack of actual mentors or mentoring. Wild TV or YouTube are not mentors, but sadly way too many beginners are using these media outlets in the place of mentors.

Sharing and mentoring should be a sacrament of graceful aging.

Help a beginner buy a good used firearm, although a good used rifle may cost more than the latest entry level, brand new, package rifle, it’s a conundrum for beginners. Learning maintenance and preparing a firearm for use in the field is a multi volume book, but if learnt through doing or watching in person is most likely to be retained and remembered.

Tracking, field dressing, assessing habitat, building land owner relations are best learnt through mentoring too.

Share what you’ve learnt, be that guy.

Problem solved IMO.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Dick284

The biggest thing lacking with today’s beginners to shooting and hunting, is the profound lack of actual mentors or mentoring. Wild TV or YouTube are not mentors, but sadly way too many beginners are using these media outlets in the place of mentors.

Sharing and mentoring should be a sacrament of graceful aging.

Help a beginner buy a good used firearm, although a good used rifle may cost more than the latest entry level, brand new, package rifle, it’s a conundrum for beginners. Learning maintenance and preparing a firearm for use in the field is a multi volume book, but if learnt through doing or watching in person is most likely to be retained and remembered.

Tracking, field dressing, assessing habitat, building land owner relations are best learnt through mentoring too.

Share what you’ve learnt, be that guy.

Problem solved IMO.

this is getting out of hand...I agree with you 100% on two posts! wanna go for three

[Dick284]

Another issue today is costs to just be able to play the game we call hunting.

Hunters Ed......$80
CFSC............. $125-$200
Vehicle............$5000
Insurance........$1500-$2000 maybe more
Fuel................$$$$$$$
Decent boots.....$150-$300

The price of a rifle, decent optics, a pair of binoculars pales compared to just getting out the door legally.

Maybe you are lucky and live rural, but the fact is the rural population is shrinking and urban dwellers are thriving.

The times they are a changing, and the costs are so ridiculous just to get started.

Worrying about a used 30/30 or a bubba’d .303 is such a minuscule factor in the equation.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

So why are so few talking about used rifles as an option.

There are hundreds of thousands of Lee Enfields out there, still doing the job.

If a used army rifle is capable of still doing the job why wouldn't a used 270 or 7mm be worth considering if one has limited funds.
Why must one buy new?

To be fair I doubt anyone thinks new is the only option, but from reading this thread I'm not so sure a beginner would get that impression.

And that is the crux of the matter as I see it. It's not what we think so mach as the impressions we give beginners.

In our zeal for premium bullets and 6.5 Creedmore are we giving new shooters the impression that anything else is not capable of doing the job?

I think we may be.

I bought a youth savage axis and put a decent trigger in it for cheaper than most guys will sell an enfield for. This was for my nephew when he was 12. I also got to pick a caliber I was interested in instead of a round I have no interest in loading for. This wasn’t an expensive rifle and was as cheap as it gets to get into hunting. With a rifle basic trigger I think it was still under $450.

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by Dick284

The biggest thing lacking with today’s beginners to shooting and hunting, is the profound lack of actual mentors or mentoring. Wild TV or YouTube are not mentors, but sadly way too many beginners are using these media outlets in the place of mentors.

Sharing and mentoring should be a sacrament of graceful aging.

Help a beginner buy a good used firearm, although a good used rifle may cost more than the latest entry level, brand new, package rifle, it’s a conundrum for beginners. Learning maintenance and preparing a firearm for use in the field is a multi volume book, but if learnt through doing or watching in person is most likely to be retained and remembered.

Tracking, field dressing, assessing habitat, building land owner relations are best learnt through mentoring too.

Share what you’ve learnt, be that guy.

Problem solved IMO.

Agree

Watching WildTV to learn how to hunt is like watching 50 Shades of Grey to learn how to.....

Actually you are better off with 50 Shades.....

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Agree

Watching WildTV to learn how to hunt is like watching 50 Shades of Grey to learn how to.....

Actually you are better off with 50 Shades.....

How to hunt on wild tv should be renamed
That’s not how to hunt

I knock Steve rinella but he’s good for beginners to watch. He explains everything that he does and why. For that, he is good

[270person]

Originally Posted by Dick284

The biggest thing lacking with today’s beginners to shooting and hunting, is the profound lack of actual mentors or mentoring. Wild TV or YouTube are not mentors, but sadly way too many beginners are using these media outlets in the place of mentors.

Sharing and mentoring should be a sacrament of graceful aging.

Help a beginner buy a good used firearm, although a good used rifle may cost more than the latest entry level, brand new, package rifle, it’s a conundrum for beginners. Learning maintenance and preparing a firearm for use in the field is a multi volume book, but if learnt through doing or watching in person is most likely to be retained and remembered.

Tracking, field dressing, assessing habitat, building land owner relations are best learnt through mentoring too.

Share what you’ve learnt, be that guy.

Problem solved IMO.

Good post and spot on. Wish my kids were inclined to hunt but not happening. Daughter likes to shoot anyways so not all bad. Tells me she would either barf or cry hunting so I'll just leave that on a shelf for a while.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Dick284

The biggest thing lacking with today’s beginners to shooting and hunting, is the profound lack of actual mentors or mentoring. Wild TV or YouTube are not mentors, but sadly way too many beginners are using these media outlets in the place of mentors.

Sharing and mentoring should be a sacrament of graceful aging.

Help a beginner buy a good used firearm, although a good used rifle may cost more than the latest entry level, brand new, package rifle, it’s a conundrum for beginners. Learning maintenance and preparing a firearm for use in the field is a multi volume book, but if learnt through doing or watching in person is most likely to be retained and remembered.

Tracking, field dressing, assessing habitat, building land owner relations are best learnt through mentoring too.

Share what you’ve learnt, be that guy.

Problem solved IMO.

I totally agree.

And I would add, there is no feeling like seeing a youngster I mentored succeed.

[FellSwoop]

My typical plan is to start out cheaper for thr type of hunting i am new to and might not stick with. A few years back, I thought I would like to get into coyote shooting and bought a bolt action Norinco 223 and put a straight 4x Russian scope i had kicking around. Well, I shot a couple rabbits with it and upgraded (if you can call it that) the scope to a cabelas caliber specific, and have not been out since. Glad I didn't buy a Tikka.
I started goose hunting a couple years ago and love it. I have stated with a 50 year old Auto5 that works great, but I will definitely upgrade to something that handles 3.5s. Still glad I started out cheaper.

[KazIce]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Another issue today is costs to just be able to play the game we call hunting.

Hunters Ed......$80
CFSC............. $125-$200
Vehicle............$5000
Insurance........$1500-$2000 maybe more
Fuel................$$$$$$$
Decent boots.....$150-$300

The price of a rifle, decent optics, a pair of binoculars pales compared to just getting out the door legally.

Maybe you are lucky and live rural, but the fact is the rural population is shrinking and urban dwellers are thriving.

The times they are a changing, and the costs are so ridiculous just to get started.

Worrying about a used 30/30 or a bubba’d .303 is such a minuscule factor in the equation.

This. If you can’t get there safely, you won’t go! I window shopped for years before I finally bought a truck. The prices of them are just insane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ariu]

There are people who like to shoot sako's and drive ferrari's, some others like to shoot 300RUM and drive 6.2l cummings. Thankfully life is full of choices. It does not make one a better shooter or driver than the others.
If it were only for the price, everybody would have gone for Stevens 200 in 30-06 and Toyota corolla.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Another issue today is costs to just be able to play the game we call hunting.

Hunters Ed......$80
CFSC............. $125-$200
Vehicle............$5000
Insurance........$1500-$2000 maybe more
Fuel................$$$$$$$
Decent boots.....$150-$300

The price of a rifle, decent optics, a pair of binoculars pales compared to just getting out the door legally.

Maybe you are lucky and live rural, but the fact is the rural population is shrinking and urban dwellers are thriving.

The times they are a changing, and the costs are so ridiculous just to get started.

Worrying about a used 30/30 or a bubba’d .303 is such a minuscule factor in the equation.

Aside from hunters ed and license all those things have other purposes and would be purchased whether one wished to hunt or not.
So not normally a part of the factors to consider.

It may be true that cost to get into hunting is prohibitive but it need not be.

One does not need a new truck new boots or a new rifle to hunt with.

I have used a pre-owned Corolla for transportation when hunting, I have one one rifle that was bought new, the rest are all pre-owned. I have hunted in sneakers and street cloths.

I also hunted with friends a lot in my younger years. Friends who bore part and sometimes all of the costs associated with travel.

Of course not everyone has friends like that, but I suspect most do.

We can paint a picture of hunting as a rich mans sport or we can recognize that there are less expensive options for those who do not have the resources some fortunate individuals have.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Aside from hunters ed and license all those things have other purposes and would be purchased whether one wished to hunt or not.
So not normally a part of the factors to consider.

It may be true that cost to get into hunting is prohibitive but it need not be.

One does not need a new truck new boots or a new rifle to hunt with.

I have used a pre-owned Corolla for transportation when hunting, I have one one rifle that was bought new, the rest are all pre-owned. I have hunted in sneakers and street cloths.

I also hunted with friends a lot in my younger years. Friends who bore part and sometimes all of the costs associated with travel.

Of course not everyone has friends like that, but I suspect most do.

We can paint a picture of hunting as a rich mans sport or we can recognize that there are less expensive options for those who do not have the resources some fortunate individuals have.

I’m still not buying what you’re selling Jim.


Who’s put the crap in your corn flakes?

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I’m still not buying what you’re selling Jim.


Who’s put the crap in your corn flakes?

Dick, your post is 100% on the money.

Used to be a good poster in years gone. Now it just seems that unless you parrot everything he says, and I mean everything, he gets his shorts in a knot and takes you to task. Everyone agreeing is just not how the world works.

We have no love loss for each other, and that is okay, but it is for this very reason. Always itching for a fight.

So unnecessary.

Even the first post in this thread had a veiled reference to two other threads he found himself in brouhahas in.

Golf is expensive. Fishing is expensive. Every sport is expensive and buying a 100 yr old 303, regardless of their history, and freeloading gas off buddies is not the answer.

Ya gotta pay to play. End of story.

[marky_mark]

If anyone I know what’s to try hunting
I let them use my equipment so that they have very little expenses
They can try the cheap and the expensive and make their own decision what they would like
There’s no point having anyone new into hunting start with a 303.
WW2 was a long time ago. There is definitely advantages to newer technology
There is pros and cons to everything
Somethings have changed but a lot hasn’t

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

If anyone I know what’s to try hunting
I let them use my equipment so that they have very little expenses
They can try the cheap and the expensive and make their own decision what they would like
There’s no point having anyone new into hunting start with a 303.
WW2 was a long time ago. There is definitely advantages to newer technology
There is pros and cons to everything
Somethings have changed but a lot hasn’t

That sounds like a very reasonable alternative to me. Good on ya.

However, why the suggestion that I said anyone should start with a .303?
That is clearly not what I said or meant.

To repeat myself, why not buy a used 270 or 7mm?

And it's not even about buying used. It's about giving beginners the wrong impression.
It is suggesting that new is the only reasonable option, or 6.5 whatever is the best option.

For those of us with years of experience there is no concern so far as I'm concerned. Use what you wish.

But I am concerned about the impression all this talk about what works and what doesn't may lead beginners to think and thus purchase.

A $1,200.00 Tikka may be a good choice for an experienced hunter but could be an expensive lesson for a beginner if it turns out the rifle is more then he can handle comfortably.

And that's only one concern.

Yes many things have changed and one that concerns me is the lack of mentors for many new to hunting and shooting.

That leaves them vulnerable to advertising hype and peer pressure. And online debates that appear to debate best options when in fact they are little more then arguments about personal preferences.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I’m still not buying what you’re selling Jim.


Who’s put the crap in your corn flakes?

I am not trying to sell you anything.

However I do wonder why you are trying to sell beginners on the idea that hunting is beyond their means.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I am not trying to sell you anything.

However I do wonder why you are trying to sell beginners on the idea that hunting is beyond their means.

Your world isn’t what everyone lives in Jim, it’s disheartening that you can’t see that you’ve become what you’ve become, and that time marches on.

I’m going to gracefully bow out of your rant, and leave you your windmills, to do what you wish.

[Jerry D]

I understand a lot of what is going on here. There’s lots of lower income families. I see it firsthand.

Living here, the average detached house price is like 600k plus all other living expenses. Money doesn’t go far!

Take a family with 2 or 3 kids. If you both make $25.00 an hour like basic retail management positions it’s only 100k less taxes. it doesn’t go far. Tons of people work those positions.

Walmart for example. It’s either high school students, middle age management and seniors!

Now everyone has a different head on their shoulders and it’s up to them to challenge themselves in their career and make smart choices.

Hunting the hardest part is getting permission. You can quarter a deer if you don’t have a quad. Butcher it on site with bags, put it in your trunk if you don’t own a truck. Quality used rifles are probably $500 to 800 for mid level stuff and a scope is probably $300 for some nice used leupold plus 50 bucks in ammo.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Another issue today is costs to just be able to play the game we call hunting.

Hunters Ed......$80
CFSC............. $125-$200
Vehicle............$5000
Insurance........$1500-$2000 maybe more
Fuel................$$$$$$$
Decent boots.....$150-$300

The price of a rifle, decent optics, a pair of binoculars pales compared to just getting out the door legally.

Maybe you are lucky and live rural, but the fact is the rural population is shrinking and urban dwellers are thriving.

The times they are a changing, and the costs are so ridiculous just to get started.

Worrying about a used 30/30 or a bubba’d .303 is such a minuscule factor in the equation.

Exactly....that's three for three

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Another issue today is costs to just be able to play the game we call hunting.

Hunters Ed......$80
CFSC............. $125-$200
Vehicle............$5000
Insurance........$1500-$2000 maybe more
Fuel................$$$$$$$
Decent boots.....$150-$300

The price of a rifle, decent optics, a pair of binoculars pales compared to just getting out the door legally.

Maybe you are lucky and live rural, but the fact is the rural population is shrinking and urban dwellers are thriving.

The times they are a changing, and the costs are so ridiculous just to get started.

Worrying about a used 30/30 or a bubba’d .303 is such a minuscule factor in the equation.

Every year someone either comes goose hunting with us or sees the results of one of our goose hunts, and asks what is involved with goose hunting, and they are shocked at what it costs to get started.

Shotgun $700-$1200 for decent but not expensive
Ammunition $150 for a flat for cheap steel
decoys $400-$500 for two dozen decent shells
blind $150 for cheap laydown $400 for cheap A-frame
calls $50-$100
fuel for scouting $50-$100 per week for me scouting locally
And this is doing it on the cheap , no trailers, no full body decoys, minimal decoys no dog

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

That sounds like a very reasonable alternative to me. Good on ya.

However, why the suggestion that I said anyone should start with a .303?
That is clearly not what I said or meant.

To repeat myself, why not buy a used 270 or 7mm?

And it's not even about buying used. It's about giving beginners the wrong impression.
It is suggesting that new is the only reasonable option, or 6.5 whatever is the best option.

For those of us with years of experience there is no concern so far as I'm concerned. Use what you wish.

But I am concerned about the impression all this talk about what works and what doesn't may lead beginners to think and thus purchase.

A $1,200.00 Tikka may be a good choice for an experienced hunter but could be an expensive lesson for a beginner if it turns out the rifle is more then he can handle comfortably.

And that's only one concern.

Yes many things have changed and one that concerns me is the lack of mentors for many new to hunting and shooting.

That leaves them vulnerable to advertising hype and peer pressure. And online debates that appear to debate best options when in fact they are little more then arguments about personal preferences.

Have you actually seen this far fetched scenario play out in real life?

If this does happen and someone buys this Tikka instead of groceries. The good news is that they can sell it for $1100.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Every year someone either comes goose hunting with us or sees the results of one of our goose hunts, and asks what is involved with goose hunting, and they are shocked at what it costs to get started.

Shotgun $700-$1200 for decent but not expensive
Ammunition $150 for a flat for cheap steel
decoys $400-$500 for two dozen decent shells
blind $150 for cheap laydown $400 for cheap A-frame
calls $50-$100
fuel for scouting $50-$100 per week for me scouting locally
And this is doing it on the cheap , no trailers, no full body decoys, minimal decoys no dog

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Current price at Cabela's Single shot shotgun, $229.00
2 boxes of Winchester waterfowl shotshells $39.98
Fuel for scouting $50.00

That's doing it on the cheap.

You may scoff at using an off brand single shot but if it works what's wrong with making that you first shotgun?
Cabela's wouldn't be selling it if it didn't work.

I hunted geese for most of my life without decoys, and shot plenty.
I have never owned a shogun you would use. My current choice is over sixty years old and considered by many to be the poorest brand out there.
I use blinds made from local materials as does everyone I know. Cost, zero.
I don't use bird calls, I don't know how, and still get my bag limits often enough for my liking.

Of course there is always the possibility that a beginner may find a mentor who has calls and decoys and knows where the birds are landing.

I shouldn't have to say this but clearly it has to be said.

I'm not saying one has to hunt the way I do or use the tools I do, only that there are less expensive options if one looks at ALL the alternatives.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by chuck

Have you actually seen this far fetched scenario play out in real life?

If this does happen and someone buys this Tikka instead of groceries. The good news is that they can sell it for $1100.

Yes I have, more then once.

Yes they may be able to sell that Tikka for close to what they paid for it, but more often then not they realize less then half what they paid for it.

You and I both know used rifles are not an easy sell when priced close to new price.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Yes I have, more then once.

Yes they may be able to sell that Tikka for close to what they paid for it, but more often then not they realize less then half what they paid for it.

You and I both know used rifles are not an easy sell when priced close to new price.

Oh really? Can you find me a used Tikka for $600 please.

And if this is truly the case then new shooters should be buying used. In fact, I’ve bought precious few new rifles in my lifetime.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by chuck

Oh really? Can you find me a used Tikka for $600 please.

Why would I want to find anything for you?

But let's say I did, I have no doubt I could find one in that ball park, given a few months.

Remember I do have several gun show contacts that buy used rifles on a regular basis. I've sat right beside them while they bought used rifles. I know what they paid.

I may not be the best candidate to prove your point because of that.