Real world choices.

[KegRiver]

scanning the topics popular on hunting and shooting threads may lead one to think there are only limited and expensive choices available.

That is not what my experience taught me.

For a good many years I had little to spend on sporting goods. I had other priorities and not much disposable income to use for non essential purchases.

Often for me I had two choices, pay bills and buy the lowest priced option, or do without.

Even in the last years of my working life I could not afford a gun cabinet full of expensive guns.

Does that make me less of a hunter, or less knowledgeable about what works?

I don't see how.

So these days I hunt with a 30-06 or my .303 Lee Enfield even though I could afford an ultra magnum or even 6.5 trumble or whatever they are called.

Why? Well because the rifles I own do the job.

See I don't need to hang a rack on my wall to feel like a hunter. I don't need to shoot at an animal I need a celestial telescope to see.

For those who think they need an ultra magnum, good on ya, but don't tell me I need one.

If you can afford a safe full of Weatherbys, enjoy, but don't tell me that my .303 is not capable of dropping the game I hunt.

Let's get back to reality. What really works? What can a young person buying their first rifle afford on a starting wage? Are 600 yard shots a good choice for a beginner hunter?

Let's talk common sense and real world for a change, or at least not ridicule and put down other people's choices.

And no this is not putting down those who have the skill, or think they have the skill to make a 600 yard shot or those who can afford more rifle then they need.
It' about them saying their choice is the right choice for everyone.

[Pathfinder76]

Cartridge choice and skill have very little to do with cost. I don’t follow the logic of your argument.

[Positrac]

I’ve bought and sold more rifles than I could count, from run of the mill Savages up to fairly expensive Sakos and one Fierce.

At the end of the day you really don’t need much in the way of a rifle to get out and enjoy a day in the field and not be handicapped when it comes time to take a shot at reasonable distances.

[elkhunter11]

Firearms are like most other things, there is a bare minimum to get by, and then there is the firearm that you just enjoy shooting, whether it makes economic sense to others or not. I know people that use high end firearms that have such limited shooting skills that they miss most of what they shoot at, and I know people that fight with unreliable firearms every time they go out and miss out on a lot of hunting as a result. As long as it is safe, I don't care what people use, but when you are fighting with a firearm that isn't functioning properly,and a negligent discharge occurs, I don't want to be anywhere near you, and you won't be allowed to use it on our ranges.
As far as people having negative things to say about other people's choices n firearms, I actually see just as many people putting down people that use high end firearms, as I see people putting down others that use cheap firearms.

[Dick284]

Keg:

You must realize that you are first a hunter and a pretty good one from what I’ve read on this site.

You also have to realize there’s quite a few here who are also shooters, as well as being hunters, they enjoy the tinkering experimenting and questing for something that tickles their fancy.

There’s also a fair number of members that are collectors as well as shooters and hunters.

It takes all types to make the world go around.

The more we take a “them vs. us” stance the easier it is to divide our community.

The number of new shooters starting out with Nagant’s and other surplus firearms indicates that there’s far more to the start simple group than you give credit.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Keg:

You must realize that you are first a hunter and a pretty good one from what I’ve read on this site.

You also have to realize there’s quite a few here who are also shooters, as well as being hunters, they enjoy the tinkering experimenting and questing for something that tickles their fancy.

There’s also a fair number of members that are collectors as well as shooters and hunters.

It takes all types to make the world go around.

The more we take a “them vs. us” stance the easier it is to divide our community.

The number of new shooters starting out with Nagant’s and other surplus firearms indicates that there’s far more to the start simple group than you give credit.

well said...I knew a collector...just would clean them and look at them...gave me a odd look when I said lets go shoot a few.

[Jerry D]

I was thinking a thread like this is needed last night. We have threads about sd, bc. The latest and greatest this and that and technical details that just get on people’s nerves quoting each other and calling each other out.

Cat has said throughout some of those threads, just shoot what you have and don’t worry about what’s new. It makes no difference for 99% of us.

I’ll start. My first rifle was a .30-06. The older guys I hunted with used .30-06 and .270s for deer. My grandfather always thought the .308 win was more powerful than his .30-06. That was the extent of their knowledge. They knew what they had worked and they didn’t bother reading into it anymore than that.

The other old timer I hunt with uses a .270 bar and it maybe shoots 2” plus groups now. He has had that single big game rifle his whole life and shot lots of groundhogs with it too. For our close range hunting here it is accurate enough for another 50 years worth of shooting.

I chose a .30-06 to start with too because of the old timers. It was my first rifle. It was a mistake for me at the time due to the recoil in a 7.25lb scopes rifle but I have overcome that and it has never let me down.

Most of us shoot within probably a few hundred yards? any any bullet choice will work if it’s designed for the game. Round nose, flat base, boat tail, plastic tip.. Suitable bullet with a suitable shot on the game within reasonable range = meat in the freezer

[6MT]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

scanning the topics popular on hunting and shooting threads may lead one to think there are only limited and expensive choices available.

That is not what my experience taught me.

For a good many years I had little to spend on sporting goods. I had other priorities and not much disposable income to use for non essential purchases.

Often for me I had two choices, pay bills and buy the lowest priced option, or do without.

Even in the last years of my working life I could not afford a gun cabinet full of expensive guns.

Does that make me less of a hunter, or less knowledgeable about what works?

I don't see how.

So these days I hunt with a 30-06 or my .303 Lee Enfield even though I could afford an ultra magnum or even 6.5 trumble or whatever they are called.

Why? Well because the rifles I own do the job.

See I don't need to hang a rack on my wall to feel like a hunter. I don't need to shoot at an animal I need a celestial telescope to see.

For those who think they need an ultra magnum, good on ya, but don't tell me I need one.

If you can afford a safe full of Weatherbys, enjoy, but don't tell me that my .303 is not capable of dropping the game I hunt.

Let's get back to reality. What really works? What can a young person buying their first rifle afford on a starting wage? Are 600 yard shots a good choice for a beginner hunter?

Let's talk common sense and real world for a change, or at least not ridicule and put down other people's choices.

And no this is not putting down those who have the skill, or think they have the skill to make a 600 yard shot or those who can afford more rifle then they need.
It' about them saying their choice is the right choice for everyone.

Congratulations.

[Pathfinder76]

I’m still wondering what cartridge selection has to do with it. I’ve handled $300 30-06’s and $30,000 30-06’s. I’ve shot long range targets with $8000 rifles and long range targets with $500 rifles.

[catnthehat]

I really think a lot of it comes down to personal choices .
Finances come into it for sure , as does peer pressure - there is no question that new shooters are often influenced by what the see and read .

However , when it comes to the " doing" part as far as hunting and shooting goes one must be able absorb the whole works - doesn't do a person any good to have a rifle or shotgun they cannot shoot well , and gear if that person is not diligentlly going to take time to practise shooting , and learning how to get to where you need to be to take a shot.
I see way too many new guys spending money on gear , be it rifles , calls and clothes , etc., but not paying attention to the basics of shooting and hunting and that is a shame .

I don't think this is a new thing either , it seems to be human nature to try and get things done faster and easier by aquiring something by spending money on it , when in fact a bit of learning would be better first .
Cat

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by chuck

Cartridge choice and skill have very little to do with cost. I don’t follow the logic of your argument.

Of course Cartridge choice and skill have very little to do with cost.

I don't know where you got the idea I was saying that.

Sure I could have made my post three pages long and covered exactly why I bought what I did.
But I think I made it clear enough that my choices were based on price and availability more then anything else.

But since you seem to be confused I'll lay it out for you.

I bought my first rifle at a farm auction. It was a bolt action 30-30 that I paid $27.00 for. It was the only rifle at the auction I could afford.

My second rifle was also bought at a farm auction and again was the only one offered that I could afford.

At the time I did not have enough spare income to buy anything new that was worth more then $50.00 and new rifles at the time started at $100.00

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Of course Cartridge choice and skill have very little to do with cost.

I don't know where you got the idea I was saying that.

Sure I could have made my post three pages long and covered exactly why I bought what I did.
But I think I made it clear enough that my choices were based on price and availability more then anything else.

But since you seem to be confused I'll lay it out for you.

I bought my first rifle at a farm auction. It was a bolt action 30-30 that I paid $27.00 for. It was the only rifle at the auction I could afford.

My second rifle was also bought at a farm auction and again was the only one offered that I could afford.

At the time I did not have enough spare income to buy anything new that was worth more then $50.00 and new rifles at the time started at $100.00

Times have changed
A new truck now is 100k
And they will give you a massage when your going down the highway

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Keg:

You must realize that you are first a hunter and a pretty good one from what I’ve read on this site.

You also have to realize there’s quite a few here who are also shooters, as well as being hunters, they enjoy the tinkering experimenting and questing for something that tickles their fancy.

There’s also a fair number of members that are collectors as well as shooters and hunters.

It takes all types to make the world go around.

The more we take a “them vs. us” stance the easier it is to divide our community.

The number of new shooters starting out with Nagant’s and other surplus firearms indicates that there’s far more to the start simple group than you give credit.

I had new shooters and hunter in mind when I started this thread.

I assume that most people with years of experience have made their choices and have what works for them.

But beginners in any pursuit often have little experience and less money.

I fear that leaves them vulnerable to the flavor of the day arguments that make them think they need a six figure income to get into hunting or shooting.

[Pathfinder76]

A new shooter now days is more likely to fall victim to underspending than over spending. I have seen a lot of this phenomenon enter my basement to see if we can get things working properly.

[Jerry D]

10 years ago I set a new hunter up on a budget.

It was a stevens model 200 with a redfield revolution 2-7x32. I think it was 4 or 500 all in max.

He knows it was affordable, but he didn’t know at the time it was the cheapest rifle made that worked. He doesn’t even know what a nice rifle is, but it makes him happy and he loves to hunt with it. He is actually really proud of owning it. It’s a 7mm08 and it shoots straight and that’s all that matters to him.

Underspending, true Chuck, some cheap rifles out there now with some crappy scopes. Brand new mid tier quality setups that could last a long time you’d need about $2000.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Times have changed
A new truck now is 100k
And they will give you a massage when your going down the highway

One thing hasn't changed, you don't need a new truck to get you back and forth to work a dozen blocks away.

We just bought a vehicle to replace my wife's miled out car. It cost us a bit over $10,000 and there is good reason to believe it will last us ten years or more.

If you hunt Grizzly bears a 375 H&H is probably a wise investment.

If all you want is one Deer a year a used 30-30 will probably do just fine.


Yeah times have changed, back when I bought my first rifle a entry level job paid $1.75 an hour. Now that same job would pay $15.00 or more an hour.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by chuck

A new shooter now days is more likely to fall victim to underspending than over spending. I have seen a lot of this phenomenon enter my basement to see if we can get things working properly.

Under-spending by your definition perhaps. Not by mine.

Iron sights still work, used rifles are not all junk, and the choices are greater then they ever were.

I never heard of a gun show when I was growing up.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I had new shooters and hunter in mind when I started this thread.

I assume that most people with years of experience have made their choices and have what works for them.

But beginners in any pursuit often have little experience and less money.

I fear that leaves them vulnerable to the flavor of the day arguments that make them think they need a six figure income to get into hunting or shooting.

I got what you were talking about from thread #1. Unless we were born with or given a golden spoon, we did what we did, with what we could get by with and if the stuff we did it with was deemed good enough, then who can say you are wrong. On the other had, given the golden spoon or through the prosperity you manufactured yourself.......if this allowed something different who can say you are wrong? There are no shortage of people who will tell you your choices are wrong, some will be true and some will not be true. Just gotta sort it out fer yourself. Guns are about putting a round out the spout that kills or connects in some other way with what you are shooting at. If the objective is to kill something..............being competent with your equipment is paramount.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by chuck

A new shooter now days is more likely to fall victim to underspending than over spending. I have seen a lot of this phenomenon enter my basement to see if we can get things working properly.

I have a friend that just got into hunting this year, he went into Cabelas and bought a Savage Axis in 30-06, and a Stevens pump shotgun, and was excited to start shooting. The scope that came with the Axis failed the first range session, so he replaced it with a Vortex, and tried again. Between the sharp recoil, and the terrible trigger, his shooting was poor, and he was not happy, and was developing a flinch.. He then tried a friends Tikka in 6.5x55, and all of a sudden, his shooting greatly improved, and he was enjoying shooting. He went out and purchased a Tikka in 6.5CM, and killed a whitetail this fall. I invited him out for pheasant, and when he flushed the first rooster, the gun just clicked. It did the same for the second rooster. Then it locked up solid and he couldn't move the pump at all. Basically, his hunt was ruined because it wouldn't function. Now after shooting an SX-3, he is shopping for a decent semi auto shotgun for next fall.
He admitted that he had no idea that there could be such a difference in firearms, and he was just being cheap, but now he enjoys hunting so much, he is willing to spend a little more for decent firearms. He even purchased a semi auto 20 gauge youth shotgun for his daughter for Christmas, because he wants her to enjoy shooting.

[DiabeticKripple]

Last I checked, a 30-06 or 270 win chambered rifle costs the same as a 300 win mag or a 270 WSM

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I had new shooters and hunter in mind when I started this thread.

I assume that most people with years of experience have made their choices and have what works for them.

But beginners in any pursuit often have little experience and less money.

I fear that leaves them vulnerable to the flavor of the day arguments that make them think they need a six figure income to get into hunting or shooting.

Keg:
Your picking a fight where none exists.

You’ve missed the target, unfortunately.

[sns2]

Many people read and wonder this very thing.

This is one of the least expensive rifles I could find, but it will work just fine. Likely for 100 years if looked after. If you want something better after using it then a new hunter can do whatever he/she/they need to do and only lose $150 or so.

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/76987...w-vortex-scope

We are all on different journeys and have different priorities. Be happy with what you have, whatever that may be. Nothing is forever. One can always get a part time job if a toy is out of a person's current reach.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by sns2

Many people read and wonder this very thing.

This will work just fine. If you want something better after using it then a new hunter can do whatever he/she/they need to do and only lose $150 or so.

https://www.cabelas.ca/product/76987...w-vortex-scope

We are all on different journeys and have different priorities. Be happy with what you have, whatever that may be. Nothing is forever. One can always get a part time job if a toy is out of a person's current reach.

But that rifle comes in 6.5 creedmoor!

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by CNP

I got what you were talking about from thread #1. Unless we were born with or given a golden spoon, we did what we did, with what we could get by with and if the stuff we did it with was deemed good enough, then who can say you are wrong. On the other had, given the golden spoon or through the prosperity you manufactured yourself.......if this allowed something different who can say you are wrong? There are no shortage of people who will tell you your choices are wrong, some will be true and some will not be true. Just gotta sort it out fer yourself. Guns are about putting a round out the spout that kills or connects in some other way with what you are shooting at. If the objective is to kill something..............being competent with your equipment is paramount.

Thank you.

That is what I am trying to say.

[bobtodrick]

Good post. There are a bunch of old sayings, 'variety is the spice of life" and such.
I have little patience for the people (and there are many of them) who tell me I need this or that because it is what they use and they of course have all the knowledge.
I have a number of interests. What allows this is that while I don't buy bargain basement I don't go overboard...this allows me to have a number of hobbies.
But even this...it's only me and others can do what they wish.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

But that rifle comes in 6.5 creedmoor!

Most excellent! They all work just fine.

Now more importantly post some damn pics of Ruger out hunting!!!

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by sns2

We are all on different journeys and have different priorities. Be happy with what you have, whatever that may be. Nothing is forever. One can always get a part time job if a toy is out of a person's current reach.

Well said, except a part time job is not an option for everyone. Especially now.

Still, a person can put money away for the purchase of just about anything.

For many these days that is not an attractive option. Too much we want it now and too little discipline for saving for a rainy day.

[KegRiver]

So why are so few talking about used rifles as an option.

There are hundreds of thousands of Lee Enfields out there, still doing the job.

If a used army rifle is capable of still doing the job why wouldn't a used 270 or 7mm be worth considering if one has limited funds.
Why must one buy new?

To be fair I doubt anyone thinks new is the only option, but from reading this thread I'm not so sure a beginner would get that impression.

And that is the crux of the matter as I see it. It's not what we think so mach as the impressions we give beginners.

In our zeal for premium bullets and 6.5 Creedmore are we giving new shooters the impression that anything else is not capable of doing the job?

I think we may be.

[DiabeticKripple]

The problem with Lee Enfields is they are unwieldy and heavy.

Consider a modern, synthetic stocked rifle and how much easier it is to carry. Ain’t nothing wrong with a used firearm, I bet over half my collection is used. Bought off here and CGN.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

So why are so few talking about used rifles as an option.

There are hundreds of thousands of Lee Enfields out there, still doing the job.

If a used army rifle is capable of still doing the job why wouldn't a used 270 or 7mm be worth considering if one has limited funds.
Why must one buy new?

To be fair I doubt anyone thinks new is the only option, but from reading this thread I'm not so sure a beginner would get that impression.

And that is the crux of the matter as I see it. It's not what we think so mach as the impressions we give beginners.

In our zeal for premium bullets and 6.5 Creedmore are we giving new shooters the impression that anything else is not capable of doing the job?

I think we may be.

The problem with used rifles for new shooters, is that a new shooter typically has no idea what to look for in a used rifle, and they could easily end up with someone else's problems. For a person with a lot of firearms knowledge, used is always a great option.