Don’t be that guy

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

TRUTH^^^

Yet many "Seasoned- re-loaders" on this forum (and others) have no problem suggesting to new reloaders to start in the middle and go up from there or worse yet to accept their recipes as gospel. Lesson to take from this is, quite being so cheap and go buy 3-4 GOOD reloading manuals (and read them). BEFORE you wander off in to the high pressure world of rifles and explosives.

How many rifle that you know of have blown up using published data?

[brewster29]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

OP. What powder was he using?

Just checked. He was using Vit 550, 43.5 gr, Nosler 140 Partitions, Hornady brass, CCI 200. He had fired 7 rounds at various seating depths when this occurred. I had a look at the fired brass, about half had light ejector marks.

FWIW, Vihtavouri 550 load data shows max 39.1 with 140 Bergers...

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by bat119

A guy missing one eye told me that he still had room for powder in the case so why not

Why not? Well, maybe he was already at max vocity ,load density and pressure with the powder he was using !
The amount of space left in the is erelavent in that case.
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by brewster29

Just checked. He was using Vit 550, 43.5 gr, Nosler 140 Partitions, Hornady brass, CCI 200. He had fired 7 rounds at various seating depths when this occurred. I had a look at the fired brass, about half had light ejector marks.

FWIW, Vihtavouri 550 load data shows max 39.1 with 140 Bergers...

Bergers have a complelty different construction, bearing surface and pressure curve than Partitions, add that to the extra powder , and things can get Western real quick!
Cat

[32-40win]

I had a min load of 4320 lock the bolt enough to have to knock it open many years back, tirned out it was a recall lot nbr, years before the internet existed, maybe 1990 or so, little earlier perhaps. Only way to know about recalls was ads in magazines, which I saw a few months later. That spooked me a bit.
People buying powder off other people, that they don't know how it was stored, using questionable powder as it is scarce and expensive. Using powders that are not listed for that cartridge can be interesting, Quickload and GRT can't tell you it may behave screwy in the combo chosen, and that is why it was left out of the manual.

[6.5 shooter]

The fact that your not willing to take the time (or the couple extra bucks) to start at the bottom and work your way up the charge scale. Plus double or triple checking (your soon to be favorite) load against several other reputable reloading manuals, boggles the mind, but I guess the Idea of having my face planted behind 65,000 PSI of pressure or 100,000 PSI is just a silly waste of a couple bucks and a few projectiles. My face ain't pretty but I like it just the way it is, thank you.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

How many rifle that you know of have blown up using published data?

I have a manual by a top bullet manufacture that has a definite "misprint" in one of the more popular calibers. Hence why I always double or triple check the load date. (cheap insurance). No I have never seen it (In response to your query) but then again I don't take chances and neither do most common sense reloaders ... but there are always a few who insist on taking short cuts.

[DLab]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

The fact that your not willing to take the time (or the couple extra bucks) to start at the bottom and work your way up the charge scale. Plus double or triple checking (your soon to be favorite) load against several other reputable reloading manuals, boggles the mind, but I guess the Idea of having my face planted behind 65,000 PSI of pressure or 100,000 PSI is just a silly waste of a couple bucks and a few projectiles. My face ain't pretty but I like it just the way it is, thank you.

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

I have a manual by a top bullet manufacture that has a definite "misprint" in one of the more popular calibers. Hence why I always double or triple check the load date. (cheap insurance). No I have never seen it (In response to your query) but then again I don't take chances and neither do most common sense reloaders ... but there are always a few who insist on taking short cuts.

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

TRUTH^^^

Yet many "Seasoned- re-loaders" on this forum (and others) have no problem suggesting to new reloaders to start in the middle and go up from there or worse yet to accept their recipes as gospel. Lesson to take from this is, quite being so cheap and go buy 3-4 GOOD reloading manuals (and read them). BEFORE you wander off in to the high pressure world of rifles and explosives.

Since I posted my method of load development in a thread not long ago about starting mid book load I'll assume this finger is wagging in my direction, at least partially.

A guy needs to be careful using a ladder that tall to get on that horse there 6.5........

[Dubious]

One thing I have learned, never post anything about your loads. There’s always multiple someone’s who will tell you how you’re not doing it their way and that’s the only way it should be done. few people will actually constructively assist theres a lot of elitism in reloading.

[DLab]

Originally Posted by Dubious

One thing I have learned, never post anything about your loads. There’s always multiple someone’s who will tell you how you’re not doing it their way and that’s the only way it should be done. few people will actually constructively assist theres a lot of elitism in reloading.

This thread isn't about personal loading techniques, it's about an individual who completely ignored the manual ,never read one or just thought he knew more. It's seems obvious to me if this particular person owned several load manuals and had access to a number of reload data sources online that most people do these days, he would still have ignored the warnings on MAX loads.
According to the info posted on his powder load he was near 4.5 grains over Max book load and very compressed I would think, to the point of the bullet moving forward enough, even with heavy neck tension, to be solidly into the lands creating an even more dangerous pressure situation.

Some people just have to learn the hard way and in this case the individual got lucky keeping his original parts in place relatively unscathed.

[Mountain Guy]

Scary. I'm not an expert in blowing up guns. He musta really jumped a lotta grains to get to that stage. I'd think the bolt would seize way before self destruction.

[brewster29]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Scary. I'm not an expert in blowing up guns. He musta really jumped a lotta grains to get to that stage. I'd think the bolt would seize way before self destruction.

Bolt was jammed into the action, obviously by the case head but also the extractor had broken and wedged the bolt. He had a gunsmith unscrew the barrel (usually not easy on a Tikka) which came off easily...
BTW, gunsmith had same advice as me: don't even think of trying to use action again!

I will get a look at things today.

[fps plus]

I had a fellow bring me a Ruger #1 in 7mag and had a fired cartridge locked in the chamber and couldn’t open the action. The way they are designed one cannot unscrew the barrel from the receiver with the action closed , the extractor sits in a cut in the barrel. So I had a fellow help me as I literally beat on the top of the action block while he pulled on the lever , it opened. I will attest that rugers are damn strong . Not sure what he did to over charge but he ruined the rifle. The block had set back nearly 1/16 inch

[NCC]

Originally Posted by brewster29

Just checked. He was using Vit 550, 43.5 gr, Nosler 140 Partitions, Hornady brass, CCI 200. He had fired 7 rounds at various seating depths when this occurred. I had a look at the fired brass, about half had light ejector marks.

FWIW, Vihtavouri 550 load data shows max 39.1 with 140 Bergers...

Was the round that caused the failure the seated the longest and touching the lands?

[elkhunter11]

A friend brought me some fired cases and a shellholder, because he said the cases wouldn't fit, even though he used the same shellholder to load the cases. I measured the case heads, and they had expanded about .004" from one firing. I discovered that he had loaded 160 gr bullets using 140gr data, and had started at the max load. Luckily, he only fired six cases, so the only damage was six wasted cases.

[JD848]

Hope this guy recovers plus I never seen a rifle blow up over max load data, it could happen so start low.

There's guys selling stuff like powder from pulled bullets or part jugs so any open bottles I wouldn't touch . Forgetting which powder you loaded can happen and that is very dangerous if you get them mixed up together .

Some guys to top a pound will just add whatever ,if you can sell primers at $500 for 1000 your integrity is very low .As things get tougher to buy buyer beware unless you know the guy real well .

N550 is double based nitro and the older stuff has a heck of a smell ,so start very low and work your way up.

Drug dealers also hunt and selling fentanyl doesn't bother them one bit,so mixed powder is a joke for some nut jobs.

We live in different times in all avenues of life .

Cheers
JD

[brewster29]

Originally Posted by brewster29

Just checked. He was using Vit 550, 43.5 gr, Nosler 140 Partitions, Hornady brass, CCI 200. He had fired 7 rounds at various seating depths when this occurred. I had a look at the fired brass, about half had light ejector marks.

FWIW, Vihtavouri 550 load data shows max 39.1 with 140 Bergers...

Follow up - mystery solved. Neighbour pulled apart his remaining rounds and weighed all the powder charges. He found two loads at about 47.5 grains…these loads were previously torn down and he believes he may have had some compressed powder remaining in the cases. In any case this is 9-10 grains more 550 than Vihtavouri shows as max for 140 Accubond and BT Noslers. Compounding an overload with an extra 4 grains would do it…

BTW, he has some bruising on his face and a bloodshot eye but no vision loss. He is a lefty and was shooting a left hand rifle (insert my usual warning to lefties shooting right hand rifles here). Very lucky guy!

[IR_mike]

Hi will probably develop a slight "flinch" in the future.

[brewster29]

He ordered up a new Tikka super lite in 6.5 CM. I don’t expect his loading habits to change. He is still chasing velocity.
Cat said it best and I paraphrase: want more speed- get the next size cartridge…

I have two 7-08 rifles. Need more speed? I use my 280. Need more still? Time to get out the 7 STW! Certainly won’t be trying to get the 7-08 to match the bigger dogs.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by DLab

Since I posted my method of load development in a thread not long ago about starting mid book load I'll assume this finger is wagging in my direction, at least partially.

A guy needs to be careful using a ladder that tall to get on that horse there 6.5........

LOL sorry but I don't have a ladder that short. But par usual it is all about you. LMAO.

[freeride]

Good reminders to all.

I chase small groups not speed.

I had 2 rifles in the same calibers, one was getting pressure signs and a hard to lift bolt way before the max in the book. The second rifle had no signs and loved a load slightly above max. Not my favorite scenario because I didn't want to mix up the ammo.

Be careful and take slow steps. Keep your face and fingers.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by brewster29

Follow up - mystery solved. Neighbour pulled apart his remaining rounds and weighed all the powder charges. He found two loads at about 47.5 grains…these loads were previously torn down and he believes he may have had some compressed powder remaining in the cases. In any case this is 9-10 grains more 550 than Vihtavouri shows as max for 140 Accubond and BT Noslers. Compounding an overload with an extra 4 grains would do it…

BTW, he has some bruising on his face and a bloodshot eye but no vision loss. He is a lefty and was shooting a left hand rifle (insert my usual warning to lefties shooting right hand rifles here). Very lucky guy!

Figured there was more to the story. Thanks for the update!

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

100 fps has destroyed many rifles? Now we are getting a bit silly.

Not silly at all if you understand diminishing returns when reloading. Chase some speed, set back some lugs, or worse. I load for a friends 3006 with 165gr partitions and it maxes out for pressure at 55gr of IMR 4350. Nosler book claims 57gr is max. The rifle strongly disagrees. Chronograph is your friend when establishing a load. Only fools glue their bolts shut.

[PMJ]

Originally Posted by brewster29

My neighbour blew up a rifle today - a Tikka T3X 6.5 CM. His idea of reloading was to start at book max loads and work up from there to the very high velocities he thinks he should be able to get. His gun is ruined, stock is split , action is welded shut, magazine and trigger guard are in many small pieces. His face and eye are bruised and bloodied. I drove him to the ophthalmologist, fortunately his vision wasn’t permanently damaged. He wasn’t wearing safety glasses.

Don’t be that guy.

Oh no!!!! Lesson learnt in hard way.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Not silly at all if you understand diminishing returns when reloading. Chase some speed, set back some lugs, or worse. I load for a friends 3006 with 165gr partitions and it maxes out for pressure at 55gr of IMR 4350. Nosler book claims 57gr is max. The rifle strongly disagrees. Chronograph is your friend when establishing a load. Only fools glue their bolts shut.

So you are saying 57gr’s of powder would have blown the rifle? Lol. Come on.

I hand load as much as the next guy. Use a chronograph every time and consider it my pressure indicator. Religiously. I am well aware that you can top out on pressure before max. Very aware. What I’m saying is, if someone is blowing the bottom out of their rifle they are doing something far beyond shooting max published data. You may blow primers, you may need a mallet to get your bolt open (big maybe here) but you are not picking pieces of you rifle out of your forehead.

[Prairiekid]

^ ^ ^

I once saw someone accidentally shoot a short action round in a long action rifle with a smaller bullet diameter and it didn’t blow the action up. Blew the magazine apart, welded the bolt closed, lots of bruising but the action and barrel looked otherwise fine.

[pikergolf]

Being dyslexic my biggest fear is mixing numbers up. I triple check my first weighing and then tare the scale with the powder weight I want on the scale. That way I am always going to zero on subsequent loads. Zero is hard to mix up. After cases are loaded with powder I always check them with a flashlight, they should all look the same.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

So you are saying 57gr’s of powder would have blown the rifle? Lol. Come on.

I hand load as much as the next guy. Use a chronograph every time and consider it my pressure indicator. Religiously. I am well aware that you can top out on pressure before max. Very aware. What I’m saying is, if someone is blowing the bottom out of their rifle they are doing something far beyond shooting max published data. You may blow primers, you may need a mallet to get your bolt open (big maybe here) but you are not picking pieces of you rifle out of your forehead.

If you reread my post you will see I did not say that.

My point is that the max listed may be above the max for a particular rifle. Now, if you are blowing primers and gluing bolts shut etc, how close are you to a major mechanical failure?

[marky_mark]

I know a guy that shot his 6.5 creedmoor tikka, with a cleaning rod still in the barrel and it didn’t blow up
He was using it to align a magnetospeed and he had 2 newer shooters with him that were asking a million questions and he forgot it was in the barrel
It stopped the bullet!
Obviously wedging it in there
I guess it was hissing and relieving the pressure past the bullet and the rod
There was just a slight bulge in the barrel
But it didn’t blow up
The action was actually not in that bad of shape after this either
He was lucky that it was just a creedmoor and not a really cartridge

[brewster29]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I know a guy that shot his 6.5 creedmoor tikka, with a cleaning rod still in the barrel and it didn’t blow up
He was using it to align a magnetospeed and he had 2 newer shooters with him that were asking a million questions and he forgot it was in the barrel
It stopped the bullet!
Obviously wedging it in there
I guess it was hissing and relieving the pressure past the bullet and the rod
There was just a slight bulge in the barrel
But it didn’t blow up
The action was actually not in that bad of shape after this either
He was lucky that it was just a creedmoor and not a really cartridge

Did it knock the scrunchy off his man bun?