Educate me on Gun Storage

[Dolly’s Mom]

My Hubby has a couple shotguns and currently has them stored in a locking case. I’d like to get him an upgrade for Christmas. What should I be looking for? Is it necessary to have a fire rated safe? Or is a locking cabinet good enough? It makes more sense to me to have ammunition stored in something fire rated rather than the guns. Are there brands I should avoid? Features I should look at? Price points? Can someone educate me? Thanks in advance!

[averagejoe]

Do you want something that meets the legal minimums, or something nice, or something REALLY nice that you can't get through with a drill or angle grinder in a few minutes? Budget range? Could be anywhere from $200 to $2000+

[Au revoir, Gopher]

What is the reason for the upgrade? You want something "more secure", or "looks nicer" or...

For two shotguns, this would work. They go on sale fairly regularly. The capacity estimate on these things in laughable... would likely hold 4 or 5 long guns comfortably. Depending on the length of the shotguns you might not be able to use the shelf, I know I can't use it in mine. This would be slightly more secure than a locked case.

ARG

[gunluvr]

Like ARG says, putting shotguns in a typical gunsafe would probably negate the use of a shelf for ammo storage. Law says ammo should be stored in a separate location or at least separate cabinet anyway.
Why not look into a dedicated fire proof ammo safe instead as he already has a gun storage cabinet, which is actually legal, (though easy to burglarize)?

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by gunluvr

Like ARG says, putting shotguns in a typical gunsafe would probably negate the use of a shelf for ammo storage. Law says ammo should be stored in a separate location or at least separate cabinet anyway.
Why not look into a dedicated fire proof ammo safe instead as he already has a gun storage cabinet, which is actually legal, (though easy to burglarize)?

Have to disagree with you there.

From: https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firear...aying-firearms

"Store the ammunition separately or lock it up. It can be stored in the same locked container as the firearms."

ARG

[gunluvr]

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

Have to disagree with you there.

From: https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firear...aying-firearms

"Store the ammunition separately or lock it up. It can be stored in the same locked container as the firearms."

ARG

You could be right but that puts us right back where long shotguns probably prohibit use of a shelf for ammo storage within the confines of a small gun cabinet or safe.

[Twisted Canuck]

If you can store your ammo on a shelf in your gun safe/cabinet, you don't have enough ammo.

Anyway, I happened to look at this the other day in the store, and thought it was a pretty good value for dollar. Decent entry point for a (minimal) fire rated and ok capacity safe. Something that is more then adequate for someone who has a few long guns, but isn't a serious collector. It's on sale, not sure for how long, today may be last day?

When they say it holds 'up to' 30 long guns...no. Realistically you can put maybe 8 in there, if any of them have scopes. After that, you are damaging your gear. But also room for some handguns and other valuables.

This is orders of magnitude more durable and secure then a security storage cabinet (like the lockers you had in high school). Having said that, they can't keep out a committed thief. Just slow them down a bit. But, it will keep kids out, and does provide some security from fire. And, at 340 lbs empty, nobody is going to pick it up and walk away with it. Though I'd still bolt it down.

https://www.peaveymart.com/sporting-...n-safe/3528299

[gunluvr]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

If you can store your ammo on a shelf in your gun safe/cabinet, you don't have enough ammo.

Anyway, I happened to look at this the other day in the store, and thought it was a pretty good value for dollar. Decent entry point for a (minimal) fire rated and ok capacity safe. Something that is more then adequate for someone who has a few long guns, but isn't a serious collector. It's on sale, not sure for how long, today may be last day?

When they say it holds 'up to' 30 long guns...no. Realistically you can put maybe 8 in there, if any of them have scopes. After that, you are damaging your gear. But also room for some handguns and other valuables.

This is orders of magnitude more durable and secure then a security storage cabinet (like the lockers you had in high school). Having said that, they can't keep out a committed thief. Just slow them down a bit. But, it will keep kids out, and does provide some security from fire. And, at 340 lbs empty, nobody is going to pick it up and walk away with it. Though I'd still bolt it down.

https://www.peaveymart.com/sporting-...n-safe/3528299

A larger safe like this one is the best of both worlds as ammo can be stored beside long guns and not just above. Budget of course, may be factor., but that's a decent price at $649.

[riden]

With all due respect

Are you sure he wants this? I see storage of my firearms as a personal choice, that I would prefer to make for myself. I wouldn't want this gifted to me by anyone.

But I am a grumpy old fart. Maybe you landed a better guy than me.

[Twisted Canuck]

A lovely wife wants to give her husband a safe for Christmas as a gift, which is a huge upgrade over the case he currently stores his guns in, and you want to Grumpy Old Man it? Bah! Humbug!

Seriously, what man isn't going to be pleased that his wife wants to get him something nice, that is better then what he has, and relates to guns?

Give your head a shake, Grumpy!

[fishnguy]

^ Counterargument, lol: the reason I store it in cases (which probbaly cost about the same as the safe on sale linked by Gopher, is because I prefer it that way. Who knows.

[riden]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

A lovely wife wants to give her husband a safe for Christmas as a gift, which is a huge upgrade over the case he currently stores his guns in, and you want to Grumpy Old Man it? Bah! Humbug!

Seriously, what man isn't going to be pleased that his wife wants to get him something nice, that is better then what he has, and relates to guns?

Give your head a shake, Grumpy!

Meh, I thought I was pretty nice about it.

Like I said, it's a personal choice. I would never call a gun safe an "upgrade" in my home. Maybe he is a minimalist, and prefers to keep it as simple as possible. That's how I am.


But it's Dolly's man, she can decide.

[silvertip]

Can you guys read ????

she asked several questions in her original post

so far only one reply for a suggestion

the rest are your personal feelings of no great significance

[fishnguy]

^ In that case, the slightly bigger safe is on sale at CT: https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/y...html?rrec=true

I just don’t see how that provides much advantage over gun cases unless you get to the point where you have a “number” of such cases vs “a couple” of shotguns.

[Dewey Cox]

Originally Posted by silvertip

Can you guys read ????

she asked several questions in her original post

so far only one reply for a suggestion

the rest are your personal feelings of no great significance

We await your answers to each of her questions.

[Dewey Cox]

Personally, I don't see the value in a fire rated safe. The law doesn't require it, and there is no guarantee to it's fire rating.
I keep most of my guns in old school lockers.
I have one "stack on" brand cabinet, and it is nice, but I wouldn't spend more of my gun budget on another.
If you're just storing a few shotguns, one of those cabinets will take up the least space.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by riden

Meh, I thought I was pretty nice about it.

Like I said, it's a personal choice. I would never call a gun safe an "upgrade" in my home. Maybe he is a minimalist, and prefers to keep it as simple as possible. That's how I am.


But it's Dolly's man, she can decide.

Yes, you were nice about it, sorry if I wasn't.

I guess I am showing bias. When you invest thousands and thousands, or tens of thousands, into firearms, the idea of buying a decent safe makes sense. I have a 1000 lb safe with a 90 minute fire rating, and 9 x 1" locking bolts, 3/8" steel door. I got a deal on it, but is a $3k dollar safe.

Which is a small fraction of what I store in it. Guns, documents, and other valuables.

So a fairly good safe for under $700 seems reasonable to me.

I guess it really depends on what you want to store, and what space you need.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

^ In that case, the slightly bigger safe is on sale at CT: https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/y...html?rrec=true

I just don’t see how that provides much advantage over gun cases unless you get to the point where you have a “number” of such cases vs “a couple” of shotguns.

That's not a safe. It's a security cabinet. Not the same thing. A proper safe does provide more security, but anything can be defeated given enough time.

[fishnguy]

^ Yes, I am aware It appears we all just assumed something after reading the initial post. I assumed a couple of shotguns implies something like that

Looks like a couple of options have been suggested and I’d say that this is all there is to it. Everything else from here will vary in price and quality.

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned yet, take a look at the weight of the safe TC linked above - 340 lb. An actual safe will be heavy (this one is probably on a lighter side of things).

[Twisted Canuck]

I'd suggest that whatever you get should reflect the value of what you put in it. That would be my starting point to decide what I wanted to spend on securing it. My first storage unit was a decent Stack-On safe, which I still have. No fire rating, but still has a good combination dial and locking lugs.

Then, when I needed more space, and had more I wanted to protect, I got the bigger heavier unit that was fire rated. It being on sale for 35% off helped me choose it.

What I have learned is, you out grow the space you have with safes, if you are in to guns and stuff.

[6.5 shooter]

I would give your hubby a gift card towards a safe he will use. Choosing a safe is difficult if your really not sure what he needs. Just my thoughts.

[CaberTosser]

Personally, I think the school locker grade cabinets are a waste of time, they pose little difficulty to break into & have zero fire security.

If a person wants a safe, get a proper safe that has the fire expansion strips to seal the door & a few layers of drywall inside as thermal protection. Too heavy to move (esp when bolted down) & difficult to breach is a minimum so far as I'm concerned.

With proper tools, anything can be breached, but most criminals aren't that well-equipped or skillful.

[Trochu]

Ohhhh, I like safes!

Originally Posted by Dolly’s Mom

My Hubby has a couple shotguns and currently has them stored in a locking case. I’d like to get him an upgrade for Christmas. What should I be looking for?

Well, we probably don't have enough info to answer that for you. Are they $8k each, $300 Mossberg's that be bought last year at a garage sale, $300 Mossberg's with $15k worth of sentimental value as he got them from his father, are you in a high crime area, are you rural or urban, multi-family building, etc. It makes sense that the more they're worth, the more you should spend to secure them. There are three general types of storage commonly used:

-In a portable case in the closet;
-Residential Security Container (RSC). These are quite common and typically what Canadian Tire, Cabelas, Costco, Peavey Mart, etc. sell;
-A safe.

The above all have their pros and cons, but I would at minimum recommend one of the last two. Assuming you've got a few typical shotguns, you'd likely be looking at a RSC.

Originally Posted by Dolly’s Mom

Is it necessary to have a fire rated safe?

Legally, no.

Originally Posted by Dolly’s Mom

Or is a locking cabinet good enough?

Legally, it's good enough.

Originally Posted by Dolly’s Mom

It makes more sense to me to have ammunition stored in something fire rated rather than the guns.

If a case is not contained, a round in fire typically does very little. These guys throw a box of ammo in a fire and you can watch what happens. Skip the first half if you're in a rush: Link

What you want to avoid, is making a bomb though, by putting a whole bunch of gunpowder in an airtight container, so when it heats up, it goes boom.

Originally Posted by Dolly’s Mom

Are there brands I should avoid?

IMO, if you're buying a safe, Chubb, Inkas, Securiport, etc., you can't go wrong. The more you spend, the better you'll get. For the RSC, they are all essentially the same, thin steel over drywall.

Originally Posted by Dolly’s Mom

Features I should look at?

Don't know your needs enough to recommend, but some of the more popular features are digital pad vs combination lock, interior lights, and dehumidifier.

Originally Posted by Dolly’s Mom

Price points?

Just a cheap steel case to keep the grandkids out of, Stack-On like this can be had for about $150 new. Be aware though, this will not help in a fire, and in all reality, it will not help in a break and enter situation. It is literally to meet the law if you've got restricted firearms and to keep kids out:


The next step up would be a RSC. They are typically sold at department stores, and aren't actual safes. They meet no ULS "safe" criteria, hence the RSC. They look alot nicer than the above, and generally slightly more secure, and offer some fire protection. The vast majority of these are 14 gauge (there abouts) steel covering multiple layers of drywall. They also have way nice interior, typically some sort of soft touch, fuzzy material, that isn't going to damage your firearm. They run, depending on the size, brand, features, etc., from around $600 to $3,000. Peavey Mart has some that go on sale, Costco used to sell one for a decent price:


Now the big boys, an actual safe. These are not for everybody, well, most people in reality. They are expensive and heavy. TL15 means concentrated attack with hand tools to the front can be breached in 15 minutes of "tool on" time. TL30 means the same but 30 minutes, TL30x6 means 30 minutes on all six sides, etc. Here is a good, short write up: Link

In all reality, a methhead or common burglar breaking into your place is not going to breach a TL15 safe. They don't have the knowledge, time, tools, or work ethic to do so.

I already mentioned the two major downsides to these safes, that being they are heavy and expensive. Like 2,000 lbs and up and $2,500 and up. If you've got stairs, they may be a no go. I'd strongly suggest you look used, as the market for these isn't massive.

Wiggenback in Edmonton usually has some pretty nice stuff:

Expect to pay for it though.

And you can usually find something decent on Facebook or Kijiji:
This is on Kijiji right now:

Link
It's a beauty, but it's also $5k.

Originally Posted by Dolly’s Mom

Can someone educate me?

I tried. I think it really comes down to one basic thing, the value of what you're trying to secure and why. Are you going to but $100k worth of product in a $150 Stack-on, likely not. Are you going to put 2 $300 shotguns in a $5K Inkas, again, probably not. And why, just to keep the kids out when they come over or you've got small children, are you concerned about theft or fire, maybe both? Figure out the main concern, the value of what you're trying to secure, and go from there.
Good luck!

[ehrgeiz]

The large gun lockers/ vaults always seemed like a cumbersome nuisance to me. I just have trigger lock, case and put them in my closet. Although I don't have a huge collection and only unrestricted. Ammo goes in a couple of separate lock boxes in the same closet.

[Dolly’s Mom]

Thanks for the input everyone. Trochu, I really appreciate the info you provided. You gave me exactly what I was looking for!

[elkhunter11]

And if you go with a safe, get one rated for at least 2-3 times the amount of firearms you have, and keep the firearms in gun socks. I have seen way too many nice firearms with "safe kisses", caused by trying to get them in and out of safes that are too small.