Lost respect and support

[bukwild]

I’ll probably get in trouble for speaking this much truth but here goes. This government has made the commitment to take away your property because they do not trust you to keep owning and using it in the peaceful manner that you have been all these years. They are doing this under the guise of public safety. Instead of punishing criminals in a manner that deters them they would treat the innocent as criminals. Recently the media reported a great story of criminals being found with a large cache of grenades, grenade launchers and other illegally obtained weapons along with a huge stock of drugs. I would bet my lunch that all of those charged are walking the streets today and if they are not they could if they paid bail. This is sickening. Yet this government wants my firearms and they are willing to go to the greatest of lengths to do it. In fact they are willing to have police kill us if we do not surrender them. You see they will publicly announce penalties of lost freedom for non compliance to their grasp at control but they will go as far as they need to to get it. They will send police to your door with instructions to arrest you and if you resist, their orders are to escalate offense to ensure compliance. If your resistance keeps matching their offense they will keep escalating that offense until you are killed. That is a fact. The only way this government will cede is if they have no strong arm to enforce their will. Now, I will turn in my firearms because I am not willing to use the same amount of force that they are threatening to use so I say this to all in uniform. If you are still wearing a uniform after April 30, 2021 I am aware that you made the commitment to go to that length to take away the property and freedom’s of the law abiding in Canada. You will be no different than those who worked for the Nazi government so many years ago, just doing your job taking away freedom from the innocent. You will now be complicit as they were. Spin it how you want but that is the truth. As such you will have lost any and all, support from myself and I’m sure many others. When the innocent are treated as the guilty they will see you in the same light as the guilty.

[gun1]

Thank you

[cody j]

It definitely isn’t about crime prevention or safety. If you are willing to be disarmed you must ask yourself, do you trust this government as well as every government that will come in the future?

[scalerman]

I love your take on this. Being an LEO is a tough enough job without having to choose to kill innocent people. I personally know a number of ex-cops who have said that they would not consider becoming one now. We need to have the right to protect ourselves and our property entrenched in our constitution so that when we get an idiot like Twinkle Socks in power we don't have to go through this enacting the legislation by one government and rescinding it by another. Twinkle socks is the one who should be in jail. When will his hypnotized followers realize what he is doing and how he is doing it? How can they continue to support a dictator?

[bezzola]

I haven’t been following the whole gun thing very close. My bad.
Whit is happening at the end of April

[CaberTosser]

I think a lot of the more sensible LE agencies will not be bothering to pursue such egregious action, many of those officers are also us. Some of their senior management are also us. Nobody wants any unpleasant escalation between rightful owners and seizure squads, on either side of that coin. None of the LE that I know are for firearms seizure from people who are not criminals. I think the possibility of escalated conflict, however rare and unlikely, is why the Liberals are proposing grandfathering and the ability to keep, although not use, the firearms they’re still banning. Frankly I want them to be called out on the hypocrisy of their histrionic claims that these firearms are so inherently dangerous that they cannot be owned by the public, while simultaneously proposing that sure, we can keep them locked up at home. Well which is it then? They are clearly not as bad as they claim, or they’d not let us keep them at all; they reveal their own idiocy with this massive contradiction. Personally, I’d like to see it blow up in their face, there has already been push back from that Polytechnique gun control group (whether or not that was orchestrated between them is anyone’s guess...)

The other possibility of the blatant contradiction is to force an election by vote of non confidence.

This is also why I want an Alberta LE agency to displace the RCMP throughout the province, I want their orders coming from here at home rather than from Ottawa.

[Grizzly Adams]

The other possibility of the blatant contradiction is to force an election by vote of non confidence.

Right now, that might get us more of the same and worse for 4 more years. Not a pleasant prospect.

Grizz

[elkhunter11]

While many police officers are against the bans, I won't soon be forgetting that it was the RCMP that illegally seized firearms during the High River flood. And ultimately, the RCMP will do as directed by our corrupt government, whether the officers agree with the restrictions or not.

[bobtodrick]

Okay, here goes. I don’t want to lose my gun rights...spend many an enjoyable day at the range with my sons and friends.
But...according to all legitimate polls, such as by Ipsos Reid (which is considered to be right of centre in their bias https://www.google.ca/amp/s/mediabia...stitute/%3famp ) 80% of a Canadians support a ban on handguns and ‘assault rifles’ (whatever the heck that means).
Hate to say it boys, but as gun owners we are not the average Canadian...that saddens me but it is true.
A little test. Unless you work at a gun or sporting goods store...poll all your fellow employees...most will say they want more gun control.
Sad to say it’s a changing world and the government is in fact doing what the majority of the voters want.
It’s the only reason I’m glad I’m approaching 70...I won’t have to put up with this b.s. for that much longer.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Okay, here goes. I don’t want to lose my gun rights...spend many an enjoyable day at the range with my sons and friends.
But...according to all legitimate polls, such as by Ipsos Reid (which is considered to be right of centre in their bias https://www.google.ca/amp/s/mediabia...stitute/%3famp ) 80% of a Canadians support a ban on handguns and ‘assault rifles’ (whatever the heck that means).
Hate to say it boys, but as gun owners we are not the average Canadian...that saddens me but it is true.
A little test. Unless you work at a gun or sporting goods store...poll all your fellow employees...most will say they want more gun control.
Sad to say it’s a changing world and the government is in fact doing what the majority of the voters want.
It’s the only reason I’m glad I’m approaching 70...I won’t have to put up with this b.s. for that much longer.

Polls are all about who you ask, where they live and the wording of the questions, so I don't put much faith in polls commissioned by anyone with an antifirearms agenda. The media is the biggest weapon that a government has to manipulate the citizens.

[CaberTosser]

For those who are on the fence about gun control, I think this meme speaks a thousand words. Although we don’t have anything like a 2nd Amendment, the right to civilian firearms ownership does serve to keep governments in check just by their innocuous presence in the background. While people might be fine with the government we currently have, ask them if they are also OK with the government 6 elections away? What about the one that’s 3 elections away? 11?

A relevant question: Why is the current government so hell-bent on banning so many firearms from lawful owners when our firearm murders are very low in a global context (especially considering those committed by lawful owners). Have you noticed that the very same government that has a laser focus on banning firearms has not even tabled a budget in two years and has spent us a trillion dollars into debt while keeping us at the highest unemployment in the G7? Have they not even noticed the opioid epidemic that is numerous times greater than the entire murder rate, all murder methods combined? Why this laser focus on firearms?

Now is one thing, forever through the future is quite another thing entirely.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Polls are all about who you ask, where they live and the wording of the questions, so I don't put much faith in polls commissioned by anyone with an antifirearms agenda. The media is the biggest weapon that a government has to manipulate the citizens.

Thing is all polls show this...and as I showed Ipsos Reid is considered to have a conservative bias...yet even they can’t make the results in our favour.
The only polls that ever seem to favour us are the online polls.
Yet even I (not the most computer savvy guy on the planet) am smart enough to vote from my home computer, work computer, my phone, my kids phone...as has been suggested many times on this forum.
Those are the polls that are skewed.
Like I said, I don’t like it, but if we can’t get rid of the Liberals it doesn’t look good.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

Thing is all polls show this...and as I showed Ipsos Reid is considered to have a conservative bias...yet even they can’t make the results in our favour.
The only polls that ever seem to favour us are the online polls.
Yet even I (not the most computer savvy guy on the planet) am smart enough to vote from my home computer, work computer, my phone, my kids phone...as has been suggested many times on this forum.
Those are the polls that are skewed.
Like I said, I don’t like it, but if we can’t get rid of the Liberals it doesn’t look good.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6893821/f...s-poll-canada/

And here is how they get the desired results

The survey, conducted exclusively for Global News, found that 52 per cent of Canadians polled, living in nine major centres, agree that all types of guns should be made illegal.

They poll major centers,where the anti firearms sentiment is strongest. They know that polls conducted in small cities or rural areas, would not produce the same results.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

https://globalnews.ca/news/6893821/f...s-poll-canada/

And here is how they get the desired results



They poll major centers,where the anti firearms sentiment is strongest. They know that polls conducted in small cities or rural areas, would not produce the same results.

My point exactly...75% of Canadians now live in large metropolitan centres.
Even if what you say is true...add in the rural and towns and it will still be a majority against firearms...sad but true.
Face it...even the U.S., the bastion of individual freedoms and gun ownership is slowly losing the battle to retain their gun rights.
Again, I don’t like it, I financially support the CCFR and CSSA in protecting our rights...but facts are we are the minority.
It’s why as much as many don’t like Kenney, Or O’Toole, splitting the vote and not voting Conservative will guarantee we get the NDP in Alberta and the Liberals at the federal level.
And they definitely don’t care about protecting minority rights, especially as it applies to gun owners.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

My point exactly...75% of Canadians now live in large metropolitan centres.
Even if what you say is true...add in the rural and towns and it will still be a majority against firearms...sad but true.
Face it...even the U.S., the bastion of individual freedoms and gun ownership is slowly losing the battle to retain their gun rights.

Yes the majority live in cities, but look at the stats for those nine cities listed, and Toronto has twice as many anti firearms people as most cities. When you take out GTA, Montreal and Vancouver, the anti firearms crowd is the minority, so if you want to show that people are anti firearm, you conduct your polls in GTA, Montreal and Vancouver. And while these are the largest cities, they don't make up the majority of Canadians. And how questions are asked, is also a huge factor, so if you cherry pick the cities, and word the questions carefully, it explains those high numbers.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

My point exactly...75% of Canadians now live in large metropolitan centres.
Even if what you say is true...add in the rural and towns and it will still be a majority against firearms...sad but true.
Face it...even the U.S., the bastion of individual freedoms and gun ownership is slowly losing the battle to retain their gun rights.

I can’t even visit my parents. Why are we surprised by gun control?

[58thecat]

meh...I don't agree with it but man ...spin it how YOU want....jeepers eh....the one's in uniform after a set date are equal to those in Nazi uniforms.....I get it people are upset but man far from the horror's of death camps etc....if you want to win a majority audience other than this post you put up come up with a better spiel...like I said not for this crap...many LEO's are active outdoors people and this effects them too and I am sure behind the scenes they are shaking their heads at their orders too....no differently then you and I when occasionally we are faced against a crappy boss... just keep out fingers cross he/she vacates sooner then later.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

meh...I don't agree with it but man ...spin it how YOU want....jeepers eh....the one's in uniform after a set date are equal to those in Nazi uniforms.....I get it people are upset but man far from the horror's of death camps etc....if you want to win a majority audience other than this post you put up come up with a better spiel...like I said not for this crap...many LEO's are active outdoors people and this effects them too and I am sure behind the scenes they are shaking their heads at their orders too....no differently then you and I when occasionally we are faced against a crappy boss... just keep out fingers cross he/she vacates sooner then later.

Bingo.
At first when I read this I was just going to leave it, but the inane arguments of the OP just had to be addressed.
I deal with LEO’s on a weekly basis, many of whom have become friends...and shooting buddies. None of them agree with taking our rights away and are as upset as we are.
2nd, the Nazi analogy. I’d be glad to lend the OP my copy of Mein Kampf...a ridiculous comparison.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

My point exactly...75% of Canadians now live in large metropolitan centres.
Even if what you say is true...add in the rural and towns and it will still be a majority against firearms...sad but true.
Face it...even the U.S., the bastion of individual freedoms and gun ownership is slowly losing the battle to retain their gun rights.
Again, I don’t like it, I financially support the CCFR and CSSA in protecting our rights...but facts are we are the minority.
It’s why as much as many don’t like Kenney, Or O’Toole, splitting the vote and not voting Conservative will guarantee we get the NDP in Alberta and the Liberals at the federal level.
And they definitely don’t care about protecting minority rights, especially as it applies to gun owners.

Being in the minority doesn't mean you don't have rights. Ever seen a Gay Pride Parade?

[hilt134]

Even if they strip the gun from each and everyone of us this isn’t nazi Germany. Believe it or not you can still have a life with out a firearm. The same goes for law enforcement officers. I’m not a thin blue line supporter my self but it’s pretty clear they won’t magically become evil nazis after a set date. Not only is it patently ridiculous it’s also extremely un helpful. It makes gun owners look like slightly unhinged extremists.

Also pick a better analogy. If your going to sell back your guns. that would make you on par with the people who watched the nazis and turned a blind eye to it, to save their own skin. Seem a bit ridiculous?

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Being in the minority doesn't mean you don't have rights.

Or that you're in the wrong.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Being in the minority doesn't mean you don't have rights. Ever seen a Gay Pride Parade?

The Canadian legal system is not equal for everyone

[cody j]

Why does the government view us as a threat? Why not fentanyl dealers or criminals? Why are we the problem, why are we the enemy? How many opioid deaths compared to firearm deaths? No comparison

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Being in the minority doesn't mean you don't have rights. Ever seen a Gay Pride Parade?

Why do all you (well, a known few) only read part of the posts of those you disagree with???
Really???
I've never said I agree with what is happening.
What I've said is that the current government knows who their voters are and they are appealing to them.
But of course the 'old guard' here hates to face facts!!
Do what we can to vote then out.
Get it???

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by bukwild

I’ll probably get in trouble for speaking this much truth but here goes. This government has made the commitment to take away your property because they do not trust you to keep owning and using it in the peaceful manner that you have been all these years. They are doing this under the guise of public safety. Instead of punishing criminals in a manner that deters them they would treat the innocent as criminals. Recently the media reported a great story of criminals being found with a large cache of grenades, grenade launchers and other illegally obtained weapons along with a huge stock of drugs. I would bet my lunch that all of those charged are walking the streets today and if they are not they could if they paid bail. This is sickening. Yet this government wants my firearms and they are willing to go to the greatest of lengths to do it. In fact they are willing to have police kill us if we do not surrender them. You see they will publicly announce penalties of lost freedom for non compliance to their grasp at control but they will go as far as they need to to get it. They will send police to your door with instructions to arrest you and if you resist, their orders are to escalate offense to ensure compliance. If your resistance keeps matching their offense they will keep escalating that offense until you are killed. That is a fact. The only way this government will cede is if they have no strong arm to enforce their will. Now, I will turn in my firearms because I am not willing to use the same amount of force that they are threatening to use so I say this to all in uniform. If you are still wearing a uniform after April 30, 2021 I am aware that you made the commitment to go to that length to take away the property and freedom’s of the law abiding in Canada. You will be no different than those who worked for the Nazi government so many years ago, just doing your job taking away freedom from the innocent. You will now be complicit as they were. Spin it how you want but that is the truth. As such you will have lost any and all, support from myself and I’m sure many others. When the innocent are treated as the guilty they will see you in the same light as the guilty.

The liberal oic idea gun ban two year amnesty expires on April 30, 2022, not 2021 like you stated. Before you go calling out society's peace keepers and predicting them turning into fascist enforcers signing up to remove freedoms from citizens based on a liberal government agenda, maybe you should get your dates correct.

[TrollGRG]

Originally Posted by hilt134

Even if they strip the gun from each and everyone of us this isn’t nazi Germany. Believe it or not you can still have a life with out a firearm. The same goes for law enforcement officers. I’m not a thin blue line supporter my self but it’s pretty clear they won’t magically become evil nazis after a set date. Not only is it patently ridiculous it’s also extremely un helpful. It makes gun owners look like slightly unhinged extremists.

Look at the larger picture. Are you naive enough to think that anything else is safe once the guns are gone? The Nazi party did not just jump out and be the evil entity that we all know and love (sarcasm). It started the same way we are going and developed into something more. Look at Germany in the 1930's not 1941 and on.

Your buddy in Ottawa is already taking away privileges, pensions, investments, and a myriad of other things. He gives everything we have/had to foreign countries and nothing to our own homeless and low income citizens. A 566% increase in the carbon tax may mean nothing to you but it does to us pensioners. There are thousands of people who have to decide on paying their rent or buying food. Went to the grocery store yesterday and left with 1 (one) bag of groceries (no meat) yesterday and it cost $78. The next thing he is going after is the equity we have in our homes. When he starts taxing that then I am "hooped" (for want of a more appropriate word). I will be on the streets like the rest of them.

[bukwild]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

meh...I don't agree with it but man ...spin it how YOU want....jeepers eh....the one's in uniform after a set date are equal to those in Nazi uniforms.....I get it people are upset but man far from the horror's of death camps etc....if you want to win a majority audience other than this post you put up come up with a better spiel...like I said not for this crap...many LEO's are active outdoors people and this effects them too and I am sure behind the scenes they are shaking their heads at their orders too....no differently then you and I when occasionally we are faced against a crappy boss... just keep out fingers cross he/she vacates sooner then later.

So it's ok to enforce an unjust law if you don't agree with it? I'm not saying that LEO's are firing up the oven's but they will be the ones sent to your home to collect you and your firearms if you don't turn them in next year (yes I had a typo). Now IF you resist they will try to arrest you and if you resist that they will use any force that is greater than the force you are willing to use right up to the use of firearms. This is how policing works. Just ask the 40 Canadians police shot and killed last year while resisting arrest with force. You can resist peacefully and lose whatever freedom and property you have left but if you fight that arrest it will escalate to where no one wants it to go. Just doing your job makes you complicit, hence my analogy.

[hilt134]

Originally Posted by TrollGRG

Look at the larger picture. Are you naive enough to think that anything else is safe once the guns are gone? The Nazi party did not just jump out and be the evil entity that we all know and love (sarcasm). It started the same way we are going and developed into something more. Look at Germany in the 1930's not 1941 and on.

Your buddy in Ottawa is already taking away privileges, pensions, investments, and a myriad of other things. He gives everything we have/had to foreign countries and nothing to our own homeless and low income citizens. A 566% increase in the carbon tax may mean nothing to you but it does to us pensioners. There are thousands of people who have to decide on paying their rent or buying food. Went to the grocery store yesterday and left with 1 (one) bag of groceries (no meat) yesterday and it cost $78. The next thing he is going after is the equity we have in our homes. When he starts taxing that then I am "hooped" (for want of a more appropriate word). I will be on the streets like the rest of them.

When you compare the government or anything else, for that matter to nazis you compare it to the whole. I can see the socialist and authoritarian signs you are pointing to in the early 1930’s. Unfortunately You can see that in almost every documented government in history. Goodness knows if you asked a staunch liberal they thought much the same of harpers government. When you say nazi you are not saying slightly authoritarian socialist, you are saying a representation of distilled evil because that’s what people think when they hear it.

Get a better insult than “your buddy in Ottawa” that has to be “ok boomer” for pensioners. I didn’t vote for the current government and I certainly don’t agree with many of the policies they have. I’m also not going to go full alarmist and try and turn people against the police and elected government.

[bukwild]

Originally Posted by hilt134

When you compare the government or anything else, for that matter to nazis you compare it to the whole. I can see the socialist and authoritarian signs you are pointing to in the early 1930’s. Unfortunately You can see that in almost every documented government in history. Goodness knows if you asked a staunch liberal they thought much the same of harpers government. When you say nazi you are not saying slightly authoritarian socialist, you are saying a representation of distilled evil because that’s what people think when they hear it.

Get a better insult than “your buddy in Ottawa” that has to be “ok boomer” for pensioners. I didn’t vote for the current government and I certainly don’t agree with many of the policies they have. I’m also not going to go full alarmist and try and turn people against the police and elected government.

This post isn't meant to turn people against police. We need them and we need them now more than ever. They are the strong arm of this government and without their support laws like this can not be enforced. They are our first line of defense against this, you can bitch, whine complain and sign as many petitions as you want but if those in uniform uphold this law none of it matters. This government has lied and connived and spun enough propaganda to actually make too many Canadians believe what they are doing is for their own safety. Also they are not going away in the near future as those with common sense are actually outnumbered and without competent political support right now. So as I said those in uniform need to step up show that they will not support an unjust law or they are and will be complicit.

[hilt134]

Originally Posted by bukwild

This post isn't meant to turn people against police. We need them and we need them now more than ever. They are the strong arm of this government and without their support laws like this can not be enforced. They are our first line of defense against this, you can bitch, whine complain and sign as many petitions as you want but if those in uniform uphold this law none of it matters. This government has lied and connived and spun enough propaganda to actually make too many Canadians believe what they are doing is for their own safety. Also they are not going away in the near future as those with common sense are actually outnumbered and without competent political support right now. So as I said those in uniform need to step up show that they will not support an unjust law or they are and will be complicit.

Like others have stated. Some Leo’s will support it, some won’t. That’s the nature of a political issue.

If you are still wearing a uniform after April 30, 2021 I am aware that you made the commitment to go to that length to take away the property and freedom’s of the law abiding in Canada. You will be no different than those who worked for the Nazi government so many years ago, just doing your job taking away freedom from the innocent. You will now be complicit as they were.

This is a statement meant to turn people against police who stay in uniform weather or not they support the law. You have decided that staying in uniform past this date decides the motives of those people. I do not believe that is the case. You are correct that they are the first line of defence and that why I want them in uniform to protect us