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01-27-2014, 07:52 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
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A study in seating depth and primers
Interesting.
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01-27-2014, 08:53 AM
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The data shows good results with CCI 200 and 3.636 coal and Fed. with 3.625 coal. Where to go from there? For my part, I would repeat those two with a 5 shot sequence over chrony to see which one of the two presents lowest deviation. I doubt that there will be a huge difference in muzzle velocity between the two, so low std. deviation would be my pick. Nice job.
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01-27-2014, 09:13 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
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Sorry chuck I can't really agree that you have proved anything yet, a single 3 shot group for each condition doesn't give enough of a base to make much of a decision. Need more groups man
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Leeper
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01-27-2014, 09:23 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Thanks chuck for sharing your info....brightened my morning with an interesting puzzle...
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01-27-2014, 09:28 AM
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Rob, groups 5 and 6 are pretty well no contest when compared to the rest. I think that the "initial" 3 shot groups are a good means to seperate the junk so to speak without wasting time and components. Having made this initial selective test allows him to refine the rest with upcoming 5 shot sequences.
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01-27-2014, 09:35 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
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The only thing I would determine with those groups is the cci primers seemed more accurate than the federal. I would be inclined to think the flyers in the first 2 groups were operator related, or large cold bore shift, but again 3 shots don't speak much
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"I don't know about the "shooting Savages" part. I have one and I have had considerable difficulty doing well with it. Part of the reason for this is that I feel a need to put bag over my head to hide my identity when ever I am shooting it!"
Leeper
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01-27-2014, 11:00 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 8,315
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I am a "repeat some five shot groups" advocate. Give it a try and you will likely observe there are some differences...and think it as your 3 shot group plus two. Once I get five to group, it is time to move on to multiple five shot groups with that spec load .. and once the proof is on paper, I am more comfortable with my expectations. I come into contact with a lot of shooters, and it is not uncommon to hear.... "I don't understand this, last week I shot a half inch group and today nothing is under an inch, do think its the wind?".
Also, I define a "flier" as a phenomenon that is likely related to load .. once you accept that and look for the cause, the path to repeat shot accuracy gets a bit shorter.
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01-27-2014, 01:15 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
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260, not trying to be a pain, the info you've just relayed is good and will help some members for sure. I do believe old Chuck has a good handle on reloading
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"I don't know about the "shooting Savages" part. I have one and I have had considerable difficulty doing well with it. Part of the reason for this is that I feel a need to put bag over my head to hide my identity when ever I am shooting it!"
Leeper
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01-27-2014, 02:45 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Near Edmonton
Posts: 15,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Interesting.
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The seating depth makes perfect sense and I have seen similar and even radically larger differences, but I have to say none of the primer tests I have tried came anywhere close to as big a change as yours are showing. I am definitely going to try primer testing again on some of my well established long term hunting loads. Good info, thanks for posting it.
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01-27-2014, 02:56 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 8,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robmcleod82
Sorry chuck I can't really agree that you have proved anything yet, a single 3 shot group for each condition doesn't give enough of a base to make much of a decision. Need more groups man
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I probably just need to pay more attention, the OP referred only to a "study" which should never be confused with drawing a conclusion ... Especially when based on a couple of three shot groups. Like you, I wouldn't declare I had found the sweet spot based on three shots.
Confession time .... Back in the day, I was happy to base my aggs on three shot groups, but I eventually gave up on that as I found I learned a lot more from five shot groups.
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01-27-2014, 03:33 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Nacmine
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I think the 3.736" loads look to be about the best with both primers. The one with the federal primer is completely flat which tells me chuck may not have been holding his tongue just right. The first group with the federal primer looks better bit is near straight vertical which will show up a lot more at further than 100 yards. Just my interpretation.
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01-27-2014, 05:54 PM
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Thinking some rounds over a quality chronograph would give better information than three and five shot groups a 100 yards.
Also, knowing Chuck...he already knows this as well.
Nothing quite like asking questions one already knows the answers to...but then again...he never really did ask a question...did you, Chuck?
R.
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01-27-2014, 06:24 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: S.E. British Columbia
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Chuck didn't ask a question.
He dug a pit in the middle of the trail and spread some brush cover over the top.
Three have fallen in so far.
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01-27-2014, 06:36 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rman
Thinking some rounds over a quality chronograph would give better information than three and five shot groups a 100 yards.
Also, knowing Chuck...he already knows this as well.
Nothing quite like asking questions one already knows the answers to...but then again...he never really did ask a question...did you, Chuck?
R.
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I've put just over 300 rounds through that particular barrel since Christmas. Many through a chronograph. On Saturday I was shooting in conditions that would have sent your "quality chronograph" into the next county.
Question: How does someone shoot groups in the 1's in wind that is blowing 90km/hr?
Answer: By knowing what the heck he is doing.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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01-27-2014, 06:42 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
I've put just over 300 rounds through that particular barrel since Christmas. Many through a chronograph. On Saturday I was shooting in conditions that would have sent your "quality chronograph" into the next county.
Question: How does someone shoot groups in the 1's in wind that is blowing 90km/hr?
Answer: By knowing what the heck he is doing.
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Oh Chuck! Too priceless! Over 300 rounds, and still haven't got load development done? Nice...lots of doing...little of knowing?
My quality chronograph is not affected by conditions...any of them...You'd know this, if you knew what the heck you were doing!!!
Carry on with your trapping! You were doing so well!
R.
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01-27-2014, 06:50 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Question: How does someone shoot groups in the 1's in wind that is blowing 90km/hr?
Answer: By knowing what the heck he is doing.
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Whoever he is he should be shooting at the Supershoot, the Nationals and the Worlds, :
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01-27-2014, 06:56 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rman
Oh Chuck! Too priceless! Over 300 rounds, and still haven't got load development done? Nice...lots of doing...little of knowing?
My quality chronograph is not affected by conditions...any of them...You'd know this, if you knew what the heck you were doing!!!
Carry on with your trapping! You were doing so well!
R.
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I know that is hard for someone that shoots 50 rounds a year to wrap their head around.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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01-27-2014, 06:59 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
I know that is hard for someone that shoots 50 rounds a year to wrap their head around.
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You have no clue how many rounds a year I shoot, much less a clue about any thing else...but, its a good bit more than 50.
Hope that helps!
R.
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01-27-2014, 07:05 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 8,315
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Great, the real Chuck is back....I thought someone must have hacked his account I was a bit suspicious as I recall chuck saying that he never shot at paper.
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01-27-2014, 07:06 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,851
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thats awesome. what is it?
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01-27-2014, 07:29 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,927
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I just wanna see pics of these groups that are in the 1's.
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01-27-2014, 07:48 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushrat
I just wanna see pics of these groups that are in the 1's.
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isnt that whats in the picture? maybe its not about seating depth its about 90 km winds. gotcha! i think
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01-27-2014, 07:53 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,160
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Quote:
I just wanna see pics of these groups that are in the 1's.
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It appears that he means 1", not .1".
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