Marten Vs. Clear Cuts

[bullgetter]

So here is the deal. I was notified last week that the lumber company is going onto my line in September and cutting down all the remaining standing timber down 8 miles of road next to town. There will be no travel corridors in this area just cutblocks. Apparantly due to these tough economic times the government of Alberta is letting them throw out there harvesting plans and log all timber close to town. I was sent a letter in June that only 2 blocks were being cut this year. It's a free for all with no trees left standing! This is the best marten country on my line and would produce me $1000 every 2 years. They start in september giving me no chance to go in and salvage all the fur I can as the season does not start until November 1. Compensation does not seem to be on the table. If I knew this last season I would have trapped hard here to salvage what I could. I'm guessing the marten (and other furbearers) will be driven into the surrounding muskeg and starve to death. This will be the case on any traplines in Alberta close to a mill this fall. I don't know if there is anything I can due to stop this and I may be wasting my breath but this seems crazy. I know logging has to happen but not in such an ignorant and irresponsible manner! Anyone else facing the same problem this fall?

[sourdough doug]

I feel for you big time , Bullgetter. I, too, and most other trappers have experienced something similar as well as the devastation of fire. But when they log hell out of your line, it seems more personal. I guess, if where you are,they are still doing just blocks, it's a far cry from the large tracts they have been taking elsewhere, like 1000 acre "BLOCKS". In those cases there is nothing left on the whole line and damn certain no martin habitat. I had a situation, with an oil/gas comp., where no amount of reasoning would alleviate the problem, which made me consider having a native friend of mine, sign on as a junior partner and then tell the oil outfit to deal with him. I'm certain, I would have got their attention RIGHT NOW. However in your case, I don't see much you can do. I know what you mean by compensation, the same reason no one else goes that route. Sorry again and there is more to come and regardless of what some want to believe, there will be squat we can do...that's reality.

[Aim Low]

As a future RPF and an individual who has worked in Land Use for a year. Let me tell you, no one is ever happy when you have multiple uses on a single landbase. Have you ever tried to teach a cat SCUBA diving? Welcome to land use and planning.

I will say this, at least you are being listened too. If you express enough concern and it is workable, there may be the possbility of having the final harvest plan changed....But at this stage, I really doubt it.

was sent a letter in June that only 2 blocks were being cut this year. It's a free for all with no trees left standing!

Do you have an idea of how big these two blocks are going to be? You may be suprised...

I'm guessing the marten (and other furbearers) will be driven into the surrounding muskeg and starve to death.

In one summer, I have seen more Martin IN harvest blocks than all of my other sightings in forested land combined. This stated, my evidence is fairly anecdotal, I certainly don't trap and maybe the Martin are just better able to remain hidden in the woods...etc. etc. That said, they seem to love em' for some reason! Rodents? I don't know...I'm just trying to perhaps say that it may not be as negative as you think.

I know logging has to happen but not in such an ignorant and irresponsible manner!

like 1000 acre "BLOCKS". In those cases there is nothing left on the whole line and damn certain no martin habitat

In all fairness, logging does not happen in an irresposible fashion. 99 percent of the problems we face as an industry are purly on the economic and silvicultural end of things. Those 1000 acre ( BTW we work in Hectares ) blocks in reality sometime represent the most responsible thing do in terms of harvesting within a specific area. Unforunately they just sometimes happen to land on yours and others traplines.

There will be no travel corridors in this area just cutblocks. Apparantly due to these tough economic times the government of Alberta is letting them throw out there harvesting plans and log all timber close to town

While this isn't entirely true, it mostly is. Remember what I just said about economic policy problems? This is a long conversation.

I really feel for your plight, but we live in a province where money talks and your one guy up against a company that likely puts food in the mouths of thousands of people. Is this right? Forestry has really been pushed around by oil and gas as well. Is this right they do this to you?

The Alberta that we now live in. At least I'm proud to be a part of a profession that is asking these questions...Even if we don't listen to any of the answers.

[sourdough doug]

How many times have we all heard this same story. Bottom line, who is signing whose pay cheque. I've seen the smoke and mirror thing for years.. Like - I'm from the Gov't and here to help you... yeh right..

[Dark Wing]

Any bug wood in that stand of timber, might be another reason for the harvest. Pine stands are getting hit hard by logging right now, if one infected tree is found and the area is accessible then it gets logged.

[deanmc]

What mill are you dealing with Bullgetter? The forest industry (which has been my bread and butter for 20 years) is about to go thought drastic changes. There will be literally thousands of jobs lost and millions of dollars in revenue gone. You will get what you wish for soon enough.
If BC is an example and I believe it is you will see real drops in real estate, at least half the mills will close and many other supporting jobs will be gone(trucking, machine shops, equipment sales, road maintenance, silviculture , hydraulic shops, etc.) So your 500.00 a year in marten revenue is not the only loss that will be seen I am afraid.

[trapper m]

I have said for years that logging is getting to big and fast . Did you think they can keep taking trees this fast and not flood the market.Slow down logging is not the only one out there and I don't mean just trappers.We do need logging but do it right and back off on the spraying.There is room for every one if done right.

[bullgetter]

I leave for holidays on Wednesday for 3 weeks and hope I don't stew over this the whole time! I know I'm not alone with this issue either.
Anyways I have been told from the ATA compensation board to send them an invoice for my lost income the next 5 years. 5 years was the time the mills harvest planner told me they would not be in this area.
I realize there will always be logging on my line. What urks me at this time is they are abandoning there own harvest plans. I have been proactive in talking with them each year to find out where they will be cutting so I can plan to trap that area and salvage the fur. Is this not what a trapper should be doing?
When they come to you and tell you they change there mind and are going to take everything in September not even given me a chance to salvage anything I think they show there true colors. How can I even trap this area during the season when log trucks are screaming down the road steady? If they gave my a years notice I would have trapped this hard last season but they have given me no chance. Beetles are also absent for the most part and they have alot of other places they need to focus on due to beetle.
I am probably wasting my time but it's nice to vent. Thanks.

[Brian Bildson]

Aim Low - I'm not surprised you think logging is sustainable as the forestry industry has tainted the academic courses being taught. Logging is a great industry as some wood should come out of the forest but there are areas where logging should not take place. Alberta needs to revisit and rethink their riparian set-backs, size of blocks, replanting with mono-culture plantations, logging in the head waters and sensitive areas, and on and on.

I've sat on forestry working groups for many years and know the BS that is being pushed on the public. Maybe you'll be an insturment for change.

Martens in cutblocks may occur but I do not believe they make them a regular part of their habitat. Just based on a few decades of observation on my trap lines. Cutblocks improve deer mice habitat but reduce red backed voles. Red Backs have more calories and are a preferred food source of Marten. I sure hope you''re right and the martens are adapting to cutblocks but I'm skeptical.

[Aim Low]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

Aim Low - I'm not surprised you think logging is sustainable as the forestry industry has tainted the academic courses being taught. Logging is a great industry as some wood should come out of the forest but there are areas where logging should not take place. Alberta needs to revisit and rethink their riparian set-backs, size of blocks, replanting with mono-culture plantations, logging in the head waters and sensitive areas, and on and on.

I've sat on forestry working groups for many years and know the BS that is being pushed on the public. Maybe you'll be an insturment for change.

Martens in cutblocks may occur but I do not believe they make them a regular part of their habitat. Just based on a few decades of observation on my trap lines. Cutblocks improve deer mice habitat but reduce red backed voles. Red Backs have more calories and are a preferred food source of Marten. I sure hope you''re right and the martens are adapting to cutblocks but I'm skeptical.

And you don't believe that I know that the "Fiber Syndrome" is alive and well in this province? Forestry is sustainable...That all depends upon what you believe sustainable is. Economically sustainable? Ecologically sustainable? Socially sustainable?

I am WELL aware of the challenges we face as a profession. I think the main point I was trying to make was that, I would like to believe that this industry has the capacity to change because we at least make an effort to listen. Even if it goes in one ear and out the next...As the future looms nearer, we are going to start having to consider what those voices are saying. I believe it my responsibility, if not for myself, but for my children (whom I hope at least one of them follows me into forestry ) to be sure that the management decisions I make are in the best interest of the public good.

This stated for the past 40 years in Alberta, we have believed that managing our forests for economic maximization IS/WAS the best thing to do. Does this still apply? Better question, does the economic maximization of our forests now, ultimately lead to economic (or other value) maximization in the future? I think its very easy for us to sit here and say: "they were all doing it wrong 40 years ago...", but very difficult for us to say: "they were all doing it wrong 40 years ago, should we be doing that now?" We need to start asking ourselves the hard questions kids, or else we’re in for another mountain pine beetle...or worse. I see it happening right now, hell I’m even contributing to it sadly.

As for the Marten thing, I hope I’m right. However that was a purely anecdotal observation. Maybe I’m just lucky and saw a crap load of Martens!

Sorry about the thread Hi-jack! I hope bullgetter is enjoying his vacation!