hmm wonder what happened in oregon????

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by deerguy

Yup Murder. Pretty cut and dry. Come out hands up and get blown away.

That's one way of looking at it.... but if you tell a cop you won't be taken into custody and elude that you'll shoot if they point guns at you then try and run from them and then reach for a gun .... well he's getting exactly what he asked for and not a sane person would question that.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by deerguy

Yup Murder. Pretty cut and dry. Come out hands up and get blown away.

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by avb3

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

Yep ^

Common sense is becomingly increasingly uncommon.

Someone tells the world he is:

1) armed
2) will never see the inside of a concrete cell
3) reaches for where his weapon is located when police are telling him to surrender

I find it hard to believe that anyone would not fully understand the authority's response given the above criteria.

[jkav]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Maybe they told him to stick one hand inside his pocket or they would blow his head off. Poor guy. To be set up on video like that....😥😥

Lol.

[histyle]

Originally Posted by sns2

Yep ^

Common sense is becomingly increasingly uncommon.

Someone tells the world he is:

1) armed
2) will never see the inside of a concrete cell
3) reaches for where his weapon is located when police are telling him to surrender

I find it hard to believe that anyone would not fully understand the authority's response given the above criteria.

Exactly.

[agentsmith]

Originally Posted by sns2

Yep ^

Common sense is becomingly increasingly uncommon.

Someone tells the world he is:

1) armed
2) will never see the inside of a concrete cell
3) reaches for where his weapon is located when police are telling him to surrender

I find it hard to believe that anyone would not fully understand the authority's response given the above criteria.

You forgot fleeing arrest and then almost ramming a roadblock, very nearly hitting an officer in the process.

He wanted to be a martyr, he got it.

[agentsmith]

What's also not being widely reported is that the Bundy family are part of a particular brand of Mormonism that has a long-standing beef with the federal government going back generations, to the point that it's baked into their religion. LaVoy Finicum was also Mormon, as was at least one other occupier as evidenced by his use of "Captain Moroni" as a nom de guerre.

http://www.opb.org/news/article/expl...-of-mormonism/

Funny how no one's calling them religious extremists, which is exactly what would happen if they were Muslims. Still, I caution everyone not to refer to them as terrorists. Other than Finicum's apparent suicide-by-cop, they didn't actually do anything violent, and armed protest is not terrorism. Don't fall into the trap of calling someone's actions terrorism just because you don't like it, that's exactly what the authorities love to get away with. Our own RCMP is already trying to call pipeline protesters terrorists. One day you may find yourself protesting the powers that be, so be careful on the precedent you help set.

[jkav]

Originally Posted by agentsmith

Still, I caution everyone not to refer to them as terrorists. Other than Finicum's apparent suicide-by-cop, they didn't actually do anything violent, and armed protest is not terrorism. Don't fall into the trap of calling someone's actions terrorism just because you don't like it, that's exactly what the authorities love to get away with. Our own RCMP is already trying to call pipeline protesters terrorists. One day you may find yourself protesting the powers that be, so be careful on the precedent you help set.

Well said. The right to protest is critical in a free society - which doesn't guarantee that those protesting won't be arrested.

[TBD]

Originally Posted by agentsmith

What's also not being widely reported is that the Bundy family are part of a particular brand of Mormonism that has a long-standing beef with the federal government going back generations, to the point that it's baked into their religion. LaVoy Finicum was also Mormon, as was at least one other occupier as evidenced by his use of "Captain Moroni" as a nom de guerre.


Funny how no one's calling them religious extremists, which is exactly what would happen if they were Muslims. Still, I caution everyone not to refer to them as terrorists. Other than Finicum's apparent suicide-by-cop, they didn't actually do anything violent, and armed protest is not terrorism. Don't fall into the trap of calling someone's actions terrorism just because you don't like it, that's exactly what the authorities love to get away with. Our own RCMP is already trying to call pipeline protesters terrorists. One day you may find yourself protesting the powers that be, so be careful on the precedent you help set.

http://www.infowars.com/fbi-video-sh...video-content/


... this should be very concerning to all of us, he had his hands in the air for christ sakes !!

doesn't matter what he did !

He was obviously no immediate threat to anybody when they shot him !



.

[agentsmith]

Originally Posted by TBD

http://www.infowars.com/fbi-video-sh...video-content/


... this should be very concerning to all of us, he had his hands in the air for christ sakes !!

doesn't matter what he did !

He was obviously no immediate threat to anybody when they shot him !

He did for a moment, then put his right hand into his coat twice, as is plainly visible in the video, or even the picture right at the top of that page.

He's been brandishing guns and vowing to not be taken alive for weeks. He ran from the feds, then nearly rammed a roadblock. Then he reaches into his coat while moving and turning around so the officers can't see what he's reaching for. It's pretty cut-and-dried justified.

If he'd stood still and KEPT his hands over his head, he'd still be alive. If the feds had been out to kill these guys, they would have stormed the wildlife reserve weeks ago. Instead they were totally hands-off until the last few days. They didn't want another Ruby Ridge or Waco, and they didn't want to make anyone a martyr. Calling this "murder" after all that is ridiculous.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by agentsmith

He did for a moment, then put his right hand into his coat twice, as is plainly visible in the video, or even the picture right at the top of that page.

He's been brandishing guns and vowing to not be taken alive for weeks. He ran from the feds, then nearly rammed a roadblock. Then he reaches into his coat while moving and turning around so the officers can't see what he's reaching for. It's pretty cut-and-dried justified.

If he'd stood still and KEPT his hands over his head, he'd still be alive. If the feds had been out to kill these guys, they would have stormed the wildlife reserve weeks ago. Instead they were totally hands-off until the last few days. They didn't want another Ruby Ridge or Waco, and they didn't want to make anyone a martyr. Calling this "murder" after all that is ridiculous.

Exactly.

It amazes me that there are those on this board that even with clear evidence to the contrary, are supporting the conspiracy theory.

Sad.

[DustDee]

OR, the first shot was to the gut, while he had his hands up. He then puts his hands on the wound and gets shot again in the back. It all depends on how you look at it. It is really a hard video to get a clear picture of exactly what happened.

[tchammer]

You go and occupy a federal building to stage a protest. Annoying, but somewhat legal way of getting your point across. You show up with guns?! Sorry guys but that is WAY out of bounds, it doesn't matter who you are or what color your skin is.

[Crankbait]

Originally Posted by DustDee

OR, the first shot was to the gut, while he had his hands up. He then puts his hands on the wound and gets shot again in the back.

I love that western, what's it called again? Doesn't he then he spin around calling out the location of the loot with his last words being The Big Double You, The Big Double You.

[Crankbait]

Originally Posted by TBD;3124266... [B

this should be very concerning to all of us[/B], he had his hands in the air for christ sakes !!

Why should this be concerning to all of us living in Canada?

[qwert]

The only facts we have are that,
a father is dead, and

None of us were there.

We are forming conclusions and judgments based on speculation,
and information from people with 'self interest',
all of whom are probably willing to lie.

'There are two sides to every pancake.'

But don't let any of this stop the circus.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[wags]

Originally Posted by qwert

The only facts we have are that,
a father is dead, and

None of us were there.

We are forming conclusions and judgments based on speculation,
and information from people with 'self interest',
all of whom are probably willing to lie.

'There are two sides to every pancake.'

But don't let any of this stop the circus.

Good Luck, YMMV.

And video evidence, and words spoken by the individual....

[Looper]

Originally Posted by DustDee

OR, the first shot was to the gut, while he had his hands up. He then puts his hands on the wound and gets shot again in the back. It all depends on how you look at it. It is really a hard video to get a clear picture of exactly what happened.

And his foot accidentally slipped off the brake and onto the gas when he got to the road block.


Looper

[albertadeer]

Originally Posted by deerguy

Muslims taking over a federal building for Islamic purposes would make them terrorists yes. However, and thankfully, these two situations are nothing remotely similar so no, Bundy is not a terrorist.



Explain how he is a terrorist? Was his goal to put fear into the general Population? Was his goal to target civilians? No, it was not. You left wingers have no desire to see anything happen but total destruction of Western culture by foreign entities and seem like you won't be happy until it happens. What sad lives you lead.

He is a terrorist, anyone that puts religion before general human rights is a terrorist.

[albertadeer]

Originally Posted by sns2

Yep ^

Common sense is becomingly increasingly uncommon.

Someone tells the world he is:

1) armed
2) will never see the inside of a concrete cell
3) reaches for where his weapon is located when police are telling him to surrender

I find it hard to believe that anyone would not fully understand the authority's response given the above criteria.

It's unbelievable!

Sure it's sad he lost his life... But by the sounds of it he intended on it. Nothing wrong with what the cops did.

Why don't all you who think it's wrong start a mutiny and rebal against law?? Sacred of getting shot or something?

Relgion is mankinds biggest enemy in this world.

[Bowhntr4life]

I wasn't there, but here's an audio testimony of someone in the car who was there.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvM...ature=youtu.be

This girl uses "like" way too much, which drives me crazy, but the testimony matches the footage if you understand what's going on.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/video/fbi-...045539576.html

Coincidentally, no audio (which would confirm he was shot at before the chase began, and that they were shot at in pursuit and after they shot him dead) . According to the audio witness of the girl, there were over 120 shots fired and they were gassed out multiple times at he was shot. Her story aligns nearly perfectly with the footage except the part about him reaching in his pocket "before he was shot".


If there was audio, we'd probably find that he reached for his "chest pocket" Because he WAS shot. If someone shot me in the chest, I'd react too. He was shot at before the chase began, shot at three times when he stepped out, then shot more when he was on the ground.

In addition to this, there were police in the trees staging to shoot him up if needed. He wasn't trying to hit any one with his vehicle. He attempted to get around the blockade, and the officer behind the car thought he was going to hit the blockade, therefore jumping out of the way. He just happened to jump in the direction of where the speeding vehicle turned.

This man is not a killer and IF the audio on this footage was released, I'm betting it would confirm her story... Which is exactly why it wasn't released.

As a result, they've swayed the opinion of the American public and twisted the facts as the corrupt government often does with the media.

My sister is friends with the victims daughter in Arizona and this is a horrible tragedy full of injustice.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by DustDee

OR, the first shot was to the gut, while he had his hands up. He then puts his hands on the wound and gets shot again in the back. It all depends on how you look at it. It is really a hard video to get a clear picture of exactly what happened.

HMMmm? How many shots?

Was anyone shooting from the vehicle? How many bullet holes and flash bangs hit the vehicle?

People say a lot of things, should they be shot for that?

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by Bowhntr4life

I wasn't there, but here's an audio testimony of someone in the car who was there.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvM...ature=youtu.be

This girl uses "like" way too much, which drives me crazy, but the testimony matches the footage if you understand what's going on.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/video/fbi-...045539576.html

Coincidentally, no audio (which would confirm he was shot at before the chase began, and that they were shot at in pursuit and after they shot him dead) . According to the audio witness of the girl, there were over 120 shots fired and they were gassed out multiple times at he was shot. Her story aligns nearly perfectly with the footage except the part about him reaching in his pocket "before he was shot".


If there was audio, we'd probably find that he reached for his "chest pocket" Because he WAS shot. If someone shot me in the chest, I'd react too. He was shot at before the chase began, shot at three times when he stepped out, then shot more when he was on the ground.

In addition to this, there were police in the trees staging to shoot him up if needed. He wasn't trying to hit any one with his vehicle. He attempted to get around the blockade, and the officer behind the car thought he was going to hit the blockade, therefore jumping out of the way. He just happened to jump in the direction of where the speeding vehicle turned.

This man is not a killer and IF the audio on this footage was released, I'm betting it would confirm her story... Which is exactly why it wasn't released.

As a result, they've swayed the opinion of the American public and twisted the facts as the corrupt government often does with the media.

My sister is friends with the victims daughter in Arizona and this is a horrible tragedy full of injustice.

I think you have a pretty good grasp of the situation.

[Bowhntr4life]

Here's the statement on Facebook from his family. They are Mormon and these claims of them being religious extremists is bull$h%*.

They weren't trying to be forceful with the government, they were trying to have a conversation with them to explain WHY they were doing what they were doing, instead of being strong armed into silently obeying whatever they were told without questioning. This whole occupation has just been the questioning of "Wait, why?"

Of course, the government doesn't have reasonable and legal explanations, so what do they do? They misrepresent to skew it and turn the people against their own people. Like most American who don't have their head in the sand, they were tired of being stepped on by the government and took a stand and demanded answers.

Stupid critics who comment "expertly" on matters they know nothing about are FAR from experts! If you know nothing about farming and ranching, then shut up! They have no idea what is going on, and how BLM permits work.

You can't read the below and tell me this isn't the most Christ-like response to a father who was just murdered in cold blood. I'm not trying to side track this thread to talk about their religion, but the majority of the media is pure garbage and doesn't tell the truth about him or his family.

Facebook post:

LaVoy Finicum's Stand For Freedom
January 27 at 8:55am · Eagle Mountain, UT, United States ·
****Finicum Family Response to LaVoy’s Murder****
***1/27/2016***
We thank all those reaching out to us in love during this difficult time. Your faithful prayers are felt. Please keep praying and keep using your voice to get the truth out. This fight against tyranny is not over. Press forward.
Forgiveness is what we can extend and understanding is what we want.
Christ was and is LaVoy’s exemplar. Though there are evil and conspiring men at work, Christ still forgave the executioners for they knew not what they did.
We give permission to all media to use this statement in their reports.

[JustMe]

Let's quit beating around the bush... You take up arms against a lawfully elected government, you should be bright enough to realize what the final outcome is likely to be...

We all have the right to protest, no one is arguing the fact. But why would you take guns to an (unlawful) occupation, unless you planned on using them? There is no place in a civilized society for armed insurrection, no amount of arguing will convince a sane man that there is....

Originally Posted by tchammer

You go and occupy a federal building to stage a protest. Annoying, but somewhat legal way of getting your point across. You show up with guns?! Sorry guys but that is WAY out of bounds, it doesn't matter who you are or what color your skin is.

[wags]

Originally Posted by Bowhntr4life

Here's the statement on Facebook from his family. They are Mormon and these claims of them being religious extremists is bull$h%*.

They weren't trying to be forceful with the government, they were trying to have a conversation with them to explain WHY they were doing what they were doing, instead of being strong armed into silently obeying whatever they were told without questioning. This whole occupation has just been the questioning of "Wait, why?"

Of course, the government doesn't have reasonable and legal explanations, so what do they do? They misrepresent to skew it and turn the people against their own people. Like most American who don't have their head in the sand, they were tired of being stepped on by the government and took a stand and demanded answers.

Stupid critics who comment "expertly" on matters they know nothing about are FAR from experts! If you know nothing about farming and ranching, then shut up! They have no idea what is going on, and how BLM permits work.

You can't read the below and tell me this isn't the most Christ-like response to a father who was just murdered in cold blood. I'm not trying to side track this thread to talk about their religion, but the majority of the media is pure garbage and doesn't tell the truth about him or his family.

Facebook post:

LaVoy Finicum's Stand For Freedom
January 27 at 8:55am · Eagle Mountain, UT, United States ·
****Finicum Family Response to LaVoy’s Murder****
***1/27/2016***
We thank all those reaching out to us in love during this difficult time. Your faithful prayers are felt. Please keep praying and keep using your voice to get the truth out. This fight against tyranny is not over. Press forward.
Forgiveness is what we can extend and understanding is what we want.
Christ was and is LaVoy’s exemplar. Though there are evil and conspiring men at work, Christ still forgave the executioners for they knew not what they did.
We give permission to all media to use this statement in their reports.

The first bolded part I just laugh.
The second bolded part I can only answer with "and neither do religious groups."

But yeah, entered a building that was not his, brandishing a weapon, verbally saying (i know media lies and all that you said, but i'm sure they didn't jsut add words to his lip movements) that he wont' be taken alive.

But yeah, this religious family man is totally innocent.

Cheers bud, have a great weekend!

[Bowhntr4life]

Originally Posted by JustMe

Let's quit beating around the bush... You take up arms against a lawfully elected government, you should be bright enough to realize what the final outcome is likely to be...

We all have the right to protest, no one is arguing the fact. But why would you take guns to an (unlawful) occupation, unless you planned on using them? There is no place in a civilized society for armed insurrection, no amount of arguing will convince a sane man that there is....

Regardless of the outcome, that doesn't make it right. I don't agree with how they were trying to get their point across, but ranchers and farmers have been abused by the government for years and there comes a point where one has to stand up and say "enough is enough". It's legal to bear arms in most public places in the US, but especially its LEGAL on BLM land.

Only God knows I guess. He's the final judge, but those who don't stand for freedom don't deserve it either... Which is exactly why the NDP and other governments around the world are allowed to slowly erode the freedoms of the individuals in their jurisdiction... All because they are "elected".

Hitler was also elected but his actions don't make it right nor did it reflect the will of the German people except for the select few who actually knew what was happening with the Jews, blacks, gays during WW11

[winged1]

Originally Posted by Bowhntr4life

I wasn't there, but here's an audio testimony of someone in the car who was there.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvM...ature=youtu.be

This girl uses "like" way too much, which drives me crazy, but the testimony matches the footage if you understand what's going on.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/video/fbi-...045539576.html

Coincidentally, no audio (which would confirm he was shot at before the chase began, and that they were shot at in pursuit and after they shot him dead) . According to the audio witness of the girl, there were over 120 shots fired and they were gassed out multiple times at he was shot. Her story aligns nearly perfectly with the footage except the part about him reaching in his pocket "before he was shot".


If there was audio, we'd probably find that he reached for his "chest pocket" Because he WAS shot. If someone shot me in the chest, I'd react too. He was shot at before the chase began, shot at three times when he stepped out, then shot more when he was on the ground.

In addition to this, there were police in the trees staging to shoot him up if needed. He wasn't trying to hit any one with his vehicle. He attempted to get around the blockade, and the officer behind the car thought he was going to hit the blockade, therefore jumping out of the way. He just happened to jump in the direction of where the speeding vehicle turned.

This man is not a killer and IF the audio on this footage was released, I'm betting it would confirm her story... Which is exactly why it wasn't released.

As a result, they've swayed the opinion of the American public and twisted the facts as the corrupt government often does with the media.

My sister is friends with the victims daughter in Arizona and this is a horrible tragedy full of injustice.

The video tells a very different story than the 'eye witness'. Helcopter audio is a mute point. It's sad for his family, the officers, the locals who were victimized by this gathering, but I can't say so for the individuals that brought it to this point. Maybe Clive should shut his fricken mouth before more die.

[TBD]

Originally Posted by avb3

Exactly.

It amazes me that there are those on this board that even with clear evidence to the contrary, are supporting the conspiracy theory.

Sad.

... that you are quite happy to be left in BLISS - living in your IGNORANCE.

[Donkey Oatey]

Hands are certainly not up in the air when he is shot.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/anatomy-tak...ry?id=36595434

Showing stills from the video.

He was looking for a shoot out and found one.

Good thing is he is the only one dead and didn't take others with him.

Good riddance.