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05-21-2018, 10:44 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boah
There would be a lot more murders if there was no enforcement.
Oh, and before you ask, I don’t own an atv.
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That’s not how it works at all actually. More enforcement officers in the US, more murders. Less enforcement officers in Canada, less murders, Per Capita.
Anyways back to the conversation at hand, unless they can catch people they can’t fine them. If someone can camp or quad anywhere then it makes it hard to find them. Just like poaching. Poaching can be done almost anywhere in this province so catching them is difficult but if they limit the room they can move then you have a better chance of catching people. We can’t have a CO hiding around every corner otherwise we’d all be paying 75% taxes to enforce it. We need to police ourselves as outdoorsmen but these aren’t outdoorsmen. They are juveniles who wreck it for everyone so they have to be corralled like the children that need to stay in the playpen, but we all get lumped into it.
I’d rather see something done that I’ve seen work than have our backcountry turned into a littered mud hole. Maybe they are going too far but so far, on this item I don’t have any issues. If they limit hunting a fishing then we will see.
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05-21-2018, 10:48 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
Gotta love the yearning for the return of a Govt which perpetuates entitlement. You are breaking the law. Law been in place for at least 40 years.
Comply, it is dead easy.
Don
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Don’t mind the law like I said the camping has wound down big time by then, usually only hunters
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05-21-2018, 10:51 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNP
re the 14 day rule. If it was enforced decades ago as it should have been we wouldn't be finding ourselves in the same situation as we are in now. The current govt didn't make that rule. The rule is a good one, if you/others choose to ignore it you're part of the problem and you deserve what you have coming to you. Stick to 14 days people....
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Easy there if there was people fighting for spots then ok but no camping pressure by november
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05-21-2018, 10:54 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boah
This is part of the problem. A lot of people think it’s just the motorized vehicles. Sure gonna be a shock when they realize it’s just the beginning of the loss of other outdoor activities.
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Oh no don’t worry it won’t happen
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05-22-2018, 09:42 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Booner
What makes you believe Shanon is gonna tell you her game plan?She will let you know the day she Rams it down are throat as usual!
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Phillips has had so many ideals from the Y2Y and other Environment groups shoved down her throat figuratively? That she figures to ram the surplus down Albertans throats.
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05-22-2018, 10:58 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Leduc
Posts: 144
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It's an issue of over-use. We're reaching a point in this province where these areas can't support the amount of use they get - never mind the abuse they get from a generally small minority.
What was fine and generally harmless when done by a few though causes a lot of problems when done by thousands. Hunters and fisherman have seen similar things - most of us would love to keep fish, for example. If everybody does that we destroy the fishery, so now it's catch and release for everybody.
There's nothing wrong with quadding and I can understand the frustration from people who've been doing it responsibly for a long time. It sucks to have everybody follow you in and ruin your thing.
We can ramp up enforcement, but it just makes it a death by a thousand cuts situation. Enforcement can't mitigate a small effect from a large number of people.
To make another fishing analogy, if we have a lake with 1000 fish and a limit of 1 fish per day, one guy has no noticeable effect. When there's 1000 people, that lake is fished out after a day, even if nobody keeps 2 fish.
So, we're left with a situation where there are just too many people trying to get a piece of the pie. We can a) make each piece smaller or b) let less people to the table or c) damage things until there's no pie left.
Which option do we want?
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05-22-2018, 11:09 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimChance
It's an issue of over-use. We're reaching a point in this province where these areas can't support the amount of use they get - never mind the abuse they get from a generally small minority.
What was fine and generally harmless when done by a few though causes a lot of problems when done by thousands. Hunters and fisherman have seen similar things - most of us would love to keep fish, for example. If everybody does that we destroy the fishery, so now it's catch and release for everybody.
There's nothing wrong with quadding and I can understand the frustration from people who've been doing it responsibly for a long time. It sucks to have everybody follow you in and ruin your thing.
We can ramp up enforcement, but it just makes it a death by a thousand cuts situation. Enforcement can't mitigate a small effect from a large number of people.
To make another fishing analogy, if we have a lake with 1000 fish and a limit of 1 fish per day, one guy has no noticeable effect. When there's 1000 people, that lake is fished out after a day, even if nobody keeps 2 fish.
So, we're left with a situation where there are just too many people trying to get a piece of the pie. We can a) make each piece smaller or b) let less people to the table or c) damage things until there's no pie left.
Which option do we want?
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You are correct, but by closing areas they are just moving and multiplying the problem. It is was very noticable when the area southwest of Calgary was shutdown. Anyways, tired of repeating myself. I’ll look just have to hope for ucp to win and change things.
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05-22-2018, 11:51 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boah
You are correct, but by closing areas they are just moving and multiplying the problem. It is was very noticable when the area southwest of Calgary was shutdown. Anyways, tired of repeating myself. I’ll look just have to hope for ucp to win and change things.
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Multiplying in what way? More impacts in a smaller area? Keeping the damage to smaller spots of the province that can be better enforced? The PCs did just that when they went in and limited access through multiple PLUZ in their day and people were up in arms too but it worked. Indian Graves was destroyed too and then limits went in. It’s not half as bad as it was. This is great for the local fisheries and wildlife movement. I would think some exemptions would be implemented for those who have mobility issues during hunting seasons as is already in place. If we policed each other better we’d probably not be in this situation but here we are.
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05-22-2018, 12:08 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boah
You are correct, but by closing areas they are just moving and multiplying the problem. It is was very noticable when the area southwest of Calgary was shutdown. Anyways, tired of repeating myself. I’ll look just have to hope for ucp to win and change things.
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Just wondering what makes you think that ucp party would care enough about this issue to make it a priority?, these here today and gone tomorrow puppet politicians only ever add new restrictive laws and regulations on top of those that already exist, i can't think of an example of the new guys undoing what the old guys did errrr maybe the long gun registry would qualify?
If you want these issues addressed by a politician from any party then you will likely have to give up something else somewhere else to get what you want,that's how these masters of deception work, giving with one hand while taking with the other, these politicians are parasites not charities.
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05-22-2018, 12:42 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReconWilly
Just wondering what makes you think that ucp party would care enough about this issue to make it a priority?, these here today and gone tomorrow puppet politicians only ever add new restrictive laws and regulations on top of those that already exist, i can't think of an example of the new guys undoing what the old guys did errrr maybe the long gun registry would qualify?
If you want these issues addressed by a politician from any party then you will likely have to give up something else somewhere else to get what you want,that's how these masters of deception work, giving with one hand while taking with the other, these politicians are parasites not charities.
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I agree up to last year. You haven’t been watching US politics lately.
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05-22-2018, 01:15 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenaturalwoodsman
I am just glad they left the Free Roam Cattle Alone. It is such a nice touch seeing hundreds of Lazy cattle over graze the meadows and stand belly deep in the clear blue rivers relieving their bowels for hours on end, most times they over-graze these same areas for weeks/months. (Way past the 14 day rule). The erosion from these critters is a bonus as well. It would have been a shame to ban/restrict these "Majestic Animals" the Same as they have other users of this public land.
The NDP, Shannon Philips, and a handful of "Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum Cowboys" for surely have this right.
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And don't forget us generous hunters who are losing access are funding any predation losses of said cattle.. I'm telling ya we need our own lobby group.. between the agricultural lobbyists ,APOS', and the Y2Y were easily being outmaneuvered. And to say that all outdoorsmen are lobbyists is a cop-out, we cant even agree on our message in a simple forum like this. We need a lobby group to stop this stupidity of funding predation losses from our licenses and to advocate for our needs!
__________________
I Became A Fisherman Just For The Halibut!
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05-22-2018, 02:15 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Leduc
Posts: 144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boah
You are correct, but by closing areas they are just moving and multiplying the problem. It is was very noticable when the area southwest of Calgary was shutdown. Anyways, tired of repeating myself. I’ll look just have to hope for ucp to win and change things.
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Change things to what exactly? If the UCP wins the next election the need to balance land use among ever-increasing numbers of users isn't going to go away.
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05-22-2018, 02:24 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimChance
Change things to what exactly? If the UCP wins the next election the need to balance land use among ever-increasing numbers of users isn't going to go away.
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I say add 30000 more Beef.
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05-22-2018, 05:24 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roughneckin
Multiplying in what way? More impacts in a smaller area? Keeping the damage to smaller spots of the province that can be better enforced? The PCs did just that when they went in and limited access through multiple PLUZ in their day and people were up in arms too but it worked. Indian Graves was destroyed too and then limits went in. It’s not half as bad as it was. This is great for the local fisheries and wildlife movement. I would think some exemptions would be implemented for those who have mobility issues during hunting seasons as is already in place. If we policed each other better we’d probably not be in this situation but here we are.
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The castle area has very little areas where destruction was happening. The last government spent millions of dollars moving trails away from water sheds and put in multiple new bridges where you had to cross creeks, all in all the trail system was bar none one of the nicest in the province. Then comes along a communist party and spends millions of dollars digging up all the nice trails and bridges probably causing more erosion in the big scheme of things, because all the fresh soil that is being turned up will wash away easier. But hey they have no hidden agenda and this is what happens when you have a majority government with no opposition to fight back. There are a lot of people with opinions that have never visited the castle area and rode the trails. As a tax payer I’m pizzed at the waste of money being spent on these parks. This government has screwed every citizen of this province in one way or another and there a a lot of sheep that just bend over and take it. If this government gets in next time you better be prepared to lose more, it maybe hunting opportunities in these parks. Remember Shannon is a green peacer and don’t kid yourself she has a hidden agenda.
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05-22-2018, 11:10 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
Gotta love the yearning for the return of a Govt which perpetuates entitlement. You are breaking the law. Law been in place for at least 40 years.
Comply, it is dead easy.
Don
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hope you didn’t vote this fffing gov in buddy. And yes the law has been there forty years and hasn’t bothered me cause when I hunt there has been no shortage of camping,and the,officers knew that and let things be. I know the law and why it was there and agree.
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05-22-2018, 11:14 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artie
As far as I am concerned they have gone to far. I admit that we needed some of the areas cleaned up but they have pretty well banned all quadding in the mountain and foothills areas of southern Alberta. Some of you will say good and that is your opinion other voters have good ideas as well.
When heli hiking first started I was against it until someone pointed out to me that most people heli hiking could not walk to the high alpine lakes and flying them in gives them a chance to enjoy the alpine areas. The same for quadding it allows Albertans the chance to see areas they would never enjoy if they had to walk. Some cannot walk others chose not to. Just like speeding limits on our highways we need regulations for all back country users. But we do not ban everybody who disagrees with you.
Just because Shannon Phillips and her Y2Y connections and her green peace connections who want to shut down the tar sands do not like it other 'Albertans who also have a say in what goes on Alberta can come up with a solution for everyone.
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totally agree
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05-22-2018, 11:17 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNP
re the 14 day rule. If it was enforced decades ago as it should have been we wouldn't be finding ourselves in the same situation as we are in now. The current govt didn't make that rule. The rule is a good one, if you/others choose to ignore it you're part of the problem and you deserve what you have coming to you. Stick to 14 days people....
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Was speaking about hunting in november , do agree with the rule. Have nothing coming to me never voted nap lol
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05-22-2018, 11:20 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 143
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[QUOTE=LKILR;3788310]Do you have evidence that other activities are Gona have restrictions placed upon or is your tin foil hat on too tight?[/not to far back remember the castle area?
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05-22-2018, 11:24 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elk09
What a new idea! Hunting using your feet for locomotion...
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Get over yourself.
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05-22-2018, 11:34 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RZR
The castle area has very little areas where destruction was happening. The last government spent millions of dollars moving trails away from water sheds and put in multiple new bridges where you had to cross creeks, all in all the trail system was bar none one of the nicest in the province. Then comes along a communist party and spends millions of dollars digging up all the nice trails and bridges probably causing more erosion in the big scheme of things, because all the fresh soil that is being turned up will wash away easier. But hey they have no hidden agenda and this is what happens when you have a majority government with no opposition to fight back. There are a lot of people with opinions that have never visited the castle area and rode the trails. As a tax payer I’m pizzed at the waste of money being spent on these parks. This government has screwed every citizen of this province in one way or another and there a a lot of sheep that just bend over and take it. If this government gets in next time you better be prepared to lose more, it maybe hunting opportunities in these parks. Remember Shannon is a green peacer and don’t kid yourself she has a hidden agenda.
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Yessir I agree they are planning to do all of this in the Livingston porcupine hills plan, I have read most of it and that is long 86 pages, but hell yah let’s build mountain bike trails and walking trails, should work with more carbon tax! Pretty sure most On here won’t fall for this.
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05-23-2018, 01:17 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 508
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What is happening here is Shannon Phillips is only listening to Y2Y/Love Your Headwaters/CPAWS.
She only wants to listen to them. Only them. She couldn't care less about hunters/OHV users/ranchers. If she could get away with it, she would probably ban all human activity in these areas tomorrow.
It probably kills her inside that she couldn't immediately ban OHV in Castle and instead had to go for a 3 year total phase out.
As I've said, fox running the hen house.
__________________
I drive really slow
In the ultra fast lane
While people behind me
Are going insane.
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05-23-2018, 04:56 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Claresholm
Posts: 1,070
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I see most of you guys blame your problems on some politician. But you should know that these plans were discussed way before NDP was elected.
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05-23-2018, 05:35 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKILR
I see most of you guys blame your problems on some politician. But you should know that these plans were discussed way before NDP was elected.
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Discussed by reasonable people that weren't catering to environmental activists.
__________________
I drive really slow
In the ultra fast lane
While people behind me
Are going insane.
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05-23-2018, 08:27 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RZR
The castle area has very little areas where destruction was happening.
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Maybe, I’ve never visited the area during the summer season due to over crowding that I seen the one time I did.
I have been to the Porks though and every time I went there was quads ripping down the river beds, crashed or half burnt cars on the side of the roads, or garbage strewn about in various areas. I know there’s enforcement officers there cause I’ve had the pleasure of speaking to them before in the area, but as they say if they can’t catch them red handed it’s hard to nail anyone. I’ve tried to ask politely and am politely to go F myself or I’ll take a beating. I’ve given up on these people and just don’t go there anymore. So if people want to keep screwing it up then they reap what they sow. Maybe we run out of areas, but with the new ME generation I’m not sure what else we can do except raise our own right and hope for the best.
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05-23-2018, 03:08 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 997
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if they(NDP, Shannon) gave a shat about hunters they could come up with a reasonable way to allow access. how about only allow ATV access during an active game bird or big game season, and you must have a valid hunting licences and carry a weapon? that would knock out 98% of the azzhats.
and why not only build 2 backcountry huts, and put the other $ 300,000.00 into bridges? that solves the water crossings problems.
then, if they continue to have trail abusers, guess what, the hunter are to blame and they are gone too.
some creativity is all that is needed. Those that think hunters are going to be given any consideration going forward if it is contrary to Y2K or AWA, you are mistaken. and when the time comes that your hunting rights are being curtailed there will be less support because the "quad hunters", as many call us, will also be gone.
good luck with your fight in the future. you'll need it.
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05-23-2018, 04:02 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,943
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There have been old timers in the area that have picked huckleberries below Middle Kootenay Pass for 50 years that I know of. You used to be able to drive a car to the berry site. Then as the old well road got rougher you needed a 4 x 4. The last time I went looking for berries it had mostly become a quad road.
There was a gate partway up the road that goes over the pass into B.C. and most quadders would stop at that gate. Some of us are getting long in the tooth and cannot walk far to pick berries. I was saddened last year when one old berry picker was reduced to picking other types of berries in town. What is being taken away from us is a life style and that life style is why many people chose to live in that part of Alberta.
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05-23-2018, 04:41 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: WMU 303
Posts: 8,495
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Hwy 40 just N of Coleman
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05-23-2018, 04:56 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNP
Hwy 40 just N of Coleman
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The pavement starts next week on the first 20 kilometres, and the Food trucks are scheduled for July 1st. 30,000 more cattle are on order as well.
Sad Days ahead.
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05-31-2018, 03:36 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artie
As far as I am concerned they have gone to far. I admit that we needed some of the areas cleaned up but they have pretty well banned all quadding in the mountain and foothills areas of southern Alberta. Some of you will say good and that is your opinion other voters have good ideas as well.
When heli hiking first started I was against it until someone pointed out to me that most people heli hiking could not walk to the high alpine lakes and flying them in gives them a chance to enjoy the alpine areas. The same for quadding it allows Albertans the chance to see areas they would never enjoy if they had to walk. Some cannot walk others chose not to. Just like speeding limits on our highways we need regulations for all back country users. But we do not ban everybody who disagrees with you.
Just because Shannon Phillips and her Y2Y connections and her green peace connections who want to shut down the tar sands do not like it other 'Albertans who also have a say in what goes on Alberta can come up with a solution for everyone.
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Totally agree
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05-31-2018, 09:27 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,372
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Quads never hurt the Castle area...?
Riiiiight. You obviously don’t know the area well.
Tonnes of area trashed. RZR, I highly doubt you spend a lot of time in the Castle.
The loss of access is indeed a real shame... I’ve been goin up to pick huckleberries with old timers to Middle Kootney Pass for over 20 years now..... sturdy trail that base the changed too much.
I can hike in with my kids..... but others.....
Old timers should be allowed to quad.
__________________
"How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to live.”
-HDT
"A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends on the character of the user." T. Roosevelt
"I don't always troll, only on days that end in Y."
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