help me stand up for our rights

[58thecat]

Your right a bullet travels until it hits something after the bang of course.

[mattj117]

Hey guys lots of different opinions that I really don't know where to begin my arguments. I will however keep everyone who's interested posted on events as they unfold in regards to the legal process. my lawyer feels like it would be best if the courts were the first to hear the recording of the CFO that way they can not build a defence. as soon as thats out in the courts I will also post it on here

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by darren32

Almost everyone is assuming the OP is operating in an unsafe manner.

I don't see that. What I see is people wondering about the logic of shooting in such a densely populated area. Not because of any safety issues, but because of noise issues.

I think most hunters are well aware of the fact that rifles are very very loud and that shooting is not popular with many suburbanites.

Let's face it, Strathcona county is about as rural as central park in New York city.

As for my opinion, if anyone is interested. There are too many red flags here for me to back the OP.

[CaberTosser]

Poor timing to be fundraising for what from my monitor seems to be an issue of not enough land and neighbors in too close a proximity. Most firearms enthusiasts are worried about the big picture right now and will be putting some funds towards fighting the tyranny of C-71 and the Liberals aim towards the complete ban of pistols and semi-auto's. Budgets are tight, and are tighter still when it comes to strangers.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by darren32

There are a lot of things to consider. Layout, terrain, where the neighbors are but you could most definately have a safe range on 80 acres. 80 acres is 800m x 400m. No reason you could not have a 1 bench 100M range with 700m of extra safety behind your backstop. Proper berms, backstop, layout, I have shot on ranges on 10 acres in the US... CHAS Genesee range is only on 160 acres so 800m x 800m and they have 5 ranges and can have 100 people there. Why do you think the long range is 800m? It's the same 800m you have to work with on 80 acres.

I don't think anyone here is against mattj 117 or anybody else having a range or shooting on his own property. They are more or less trying to get him to understand what he is up against. He is mouse trying to fend off a herd of mad elephants that are about to stomp him. Nothing personal but matt seems naive when it comes to having a legal private shooting range on your own property in a suburban county that is getting more densely populated every day year after year.

Strathcona county already has bylaws outlawing discharge of firearms especially centerfire without jumping through a maze of hoops.
https://www.strathcona.ca/files/file...nsolidated.pdf

[260 Rem]

The tickets are based on noise complaints by neighbors in a subdivision .5 mile away .. which Matt admits is from the discharge of firearms. I suspect if he played his stereo loud enough to be nuisance at that distance, that too would get him noticed. Go fund me appeals to shooters, what’s next, an appeal to music lovers to protect their right to crank it up loud enough to bother folks a half mile away? Standing up for farmers? An 80 acre parcel is a “farm”? Guess you could call it a farm if the revenue constitutes a major portion of your income (think that’s how that works). Seems like a lot of games being played here, who knows, maybe on both sides of the issue.
It is unlikely any “precedent” will be set as a result of these tickets going to court. Sometimes it is wise to let sleeping dogs alone. An unintended consequence could be that council just expands or redesignates areas which could result in even tighter restrictions related to discharge. Strathcona is afterall, an urban county.

[darren32]

Thanks for the explanations. I do understand.

[mattj117]

Hey guys just an update from my November 14th court date the date for the trial has yet to be set because I am trying to get 1 trial date for the 8 tickets (so I'm not wasting money and time on 8 separate trials) and my next hearing has been put down to December 5th so that I have time to get the appropriate paperwork in order for the single trial date it is to my understanding that the prosecutor is pushing for 8 separate trials

[Albertadiver]

80 bucks raised in over two weeks. That and some of the constructive criticism here should tell you a few things.

Unfortunately you’re likely to get trounced in court, but I wish you well.

[Gifted Intuitive]

Noise is a measurable phenomenon. It is measured in decibels. No one is inquiring about the decibels of the sound receiving the complaints.
Many years ago the Sherwood Park Fish & Game Range received constant complaints about noise. A meeting was set up to be at the complainants location while shots were fired at the range. It was arranged to have shots fired at a certain time while members were at the complainants residence. Now this occurred before cell phones.

Range members visited with the residents awaiting to hear shots from the range and then decided to drive to the range to confirm that shots were fired. The members undertaking the gun shots said they had completed shooting some time ago.

This use of facts ended the problem.

If you can prohibit a gun from making a sound at any decibel as most respondents in this discussion are advocating then you are confiscating the purpose of a firearm and that is the essence of "Confiscation ".

[260 Rem]

Any update?

[mattj117]

Just waiting for my hearing in May.

[mattj117]

Just an update here. The courts didn't allow enough time so they had to put it down for 2 days in August but on the bright side it's set up exactly how we wanted it to be set up. We revised our argument. And judging from case law it's looking really good. I don't want to say to much until after August but I'm definitely excited. I will update you guys as things unfold

[Ken07AOVette]

Thanks for the update, good luck and keep us posted

[Gifted Intuitive]

This was written in the newspaper Sherwood Park News:

Despite being met with some resistance, Strathcona County council passed an update to the Firearm Control Bylaw on Tuesday, July 8.
The changes to the bylaw include the addition of crossbows as well as bows and arrows to the list of weapons whose use are prohibited inside a dedicated special control area, as well as the county’s eight rural hamlets, except on land owned or rented by the user, or by guests whose use of firearms is authorized by the owner or renter.
The conditions must also include bird hunting to protect crops or big game hunting, along with the valid relevant licences.
Fines for violating the bylaw have jumped more than $100 and now range from $250 to $350 and are doubled with subsequent offences within one year.
Only councillors Paul Smith and Brian Botterill did not vote in favour of the updated bylaw.
“With all the problems we’re experiencing farther east in the county, I was going to propose that we needed to expand the special control area, from Highway 16 to Highway 14, out to the east boundary of the county,” Smith said, referencing the increase of complaints about shots being fired, as well as the infill in the acreage areas.
Ian Gray, director of Transportation and Agricultural Services, said that gun-related complaints are up significantly.
“Drawing a line and saying we’re going to capture all of them is a difficult one,” he said.
Gray also noted that a number of municipalities are getting rid of their no-shooting bylaws, due to federal laws already in place with the Criminal Code of Canada and the Canada Wildlife Act.
“Bullets have come close to people living in their homes, so that’s the dilemma that council has — to find that happy medium… these complaints are all over the map,” said RCMP superintendent Gary Steinke.
“(Shooting) is occurring year-round, which is very concerning that people are shooting all months of the year.”
Botterill said he believed it was an area where council would be superseding criminal law.
“There is no reason for us to supersede criminal law — those tools are a lot stronger than any municipal tool we are able to use,” he said.
“This is another situation where if you move to rural areas, expect rural things. Firearms are a rural thing — that is the fact of the matter. The RCMP will treat these scenarios on a case-by-case basis. If there is a danger, the RCMP will work to prosecute.”
The gun bylaw was originally created in 2003, with revisions in 2007. Council more recently approved first and second readings of the updated bylaw in April, which returned to council to receive a third and final reading due to the requirement that the bylaw must obtain approval from the ministry of Environmental and Sustainable Resource Development.​

[mattj117]

Originally Posted by Gifted Intuitive

This was written in the newspaper Sherwood Park News:

Despite being met with some resistance, Strathcona County council passed an update to the Firearm Control Bylaw on Tuesday, July 8.
The changes to the bylaw include the addition of crossbows as well as bows and arrows to the list of weapons whose use are prohibited inside a dedicated special control area, as well as the county’s eight rural hamlets, except on land owned or rented by the user, or by guests whose use of firearms is authorized by the owner or renter.
The conditions must also include bird hunting to protect crops or big game hunting, along with the valid relevant licences.
Fines for violating the bylaw have jumped more than $100 and now range from $250 to $350 and are doubled with subsequent offences within one year.
Only councillors Paul Smith and Brian Botterill did not vote in favour of the updated bylaw.
“With all the problems we’re experiencing farther east in the county, I was going to propose that we needed to expand the special control area, from Highway 16 to Highway 14, out to the east boundary of the county,” Smith said, referencing the increase of complaints about shots being fired, as well as the infill in the acreage areas.
Ian Gray, director of Transportation and Agricultural Services, said that gun-related complaints are up significantly.
“Drawing a line and saying we’re going to capture all of them is a difficult one,” he said.
Gray also noted that a number of municipalities are getting rid of their no-shooting bylaws, due to federal laws already in place with the Criminal Code of Canada and the Canada Wildlife Act.
“Bullets have come close to people living in their homes, so that’s the dilemma that council has — to find that happy medium… these complaints are all over the map,” said RCMP superintendent Gary Steinke.
“(Shooting) is occurring year-round, which is very concerning that people are shooting all months of the year.”
Botterill said he believed it was an area where council would be superseding criminal law.
“There is no reason for us to supersede criminal law — those tools are a lot stronger than any municipal tool we are able to use,” he said.
“This is another situation where if you move to rural areas, expect rural things. Firearms are a rural thing — that is the fact of the matter. The RCMP will treat these scenarios on a case-by-case basis. If there is a danger, the RCMP will work to prosecute.”
The gun bylaw was originally created in 2003, with revisions in 2007. Council more recently approved first and second readings of the updated bylaw in April, which returned to council to receive a third and final reading due to the requirement that the bylaw must obtain approval from the ministry of Environmental and Sustainable Resource Development.​

Interesting, do you have a link to the full article on the papers website?

[mattj117]

Hey guys finished my August court appearance to argue the first 2 grounds. Thankfully it only took one day instead of 2 a little bit nicer on the wallet. I'd say it went well but I can't say for sure. I will find out the verdict November 14th. Worst case scenario I lose on the first 2 grounds I still have the 3rd(the abuse of process from the peace officer and the Cfo) and the actual trial for the tickets. Either way If I have to fight this to the bitter end I am prepared to.

[CMichaud]

The danger I see is that counties tend to copy each others when it comes to administration and legislation. In traditionally rural areas, more and more rules being brought in to address the number of trailers permitted, use of firearms as discussed, putting cabins up, septic codes, LUB etc etc.

As the sprawl continues it will only get more and more restrictive and more and more counties will follow the trend - especially in those anywhere near large cities where acreage sprawl is occurring.

Perhaps I am getting paranoid in my old age but it seems that the powers are making it harder to shoot on private land while coincidentally forcing established ranges to close and making public/private ranges increasingly difficult (insert administratively and financially viable) to build or maintain. This is before we even add in "special control areas".

Just my 2 cents

[The Elkster]

As populations explode so do the rules to keep the peace and honor everyone's rights. One shotgun going off 20 miles from a sub division is far different than multiple guns going off within 0.5 miles of a development. As populations keep growing this is only going to get worse whether you have a barking dog a barking gun or a ear blasting Harley Davidson. Your right to make noise doesn't supersede multiple people's rights to reasonable peace at their own home.

Its at times like these I wonder what the person was thinking who's dog started barking at 5am and continued until 6am when I opened my sliding glass door and yelled that they better damn well shut that dog up or else...to some people courtesy is a difficult concept it seems. I'm sure said dog owner was pizzed that I dare chastise his dogs and inhibit his rights. And Bylaw enforcement love it as those are the people who justify their wage. I would suggest finding time to take your gun to a certified range or find a location well away from people and blast away. A good rural realtor is probably a better spend than legal action. Ya wanna live in the wild west than find some wild west.

[Gifted Intuitive]

Originally Posted by mattj117

Hey guys finished my August court appearance to argue the first 2 grounds. Thankfully it only took one day instead of 2 a little bit nicer on the wallet. I'd say it went well but I can't say for sure. I will find out the verdict November 14th. Worst case scenario I lose on the first 2 grounds I still have the 3rd(the abuse of process from the peace officer and the Cfo) and the actual trial for the tickets. Either way If I have to fight this to the bitter end I am prepared to.

Have you obtained decibel readings from your surrounding neighbors ?
Have the decibels measured while shots are fired from where you shoot .
Then have a decibel reading of a chainsaw, lawn mower, and vehicle horn at your neighbors. You can ask the neighbor if you can take a sound reading of their lawn mower.
The measurements should be taken soon while the leaves are still quite green as they are an excellent sound barrier.

[darren32]

Originally Posted by Gifted Intuitive

Have you obtained decibel readings from your surrounding neighbors ?
Have the decibels measured while shots are fired from where you shoot .
Then have a decibel reading of a chainsaw, lawn mower, and vehicle horn at your neighbors. You can ask the neighbor if you can take a sound reading of their lawn mower.
The measurements should be taken soon while the leaves are still quite green as they are an excellent sound barrier.

Noise level (decibel readings) do not matter according to Strathcona county noise bylaw. It's left to the discretion of the bylaw officer. Other counties, like Parkland, have a decibel level written in them but not Strathcona.

Originally Posted by darren32

WOW, the Strathcona county noise bylaw is really nasty.
And there is nowhere in the "does not apply to" that could remotely be applied to shooting.

Basically, you can't "cause a Noise within the County .... which in the opinion of a County Bylaw Enforcement Officer ...is likely to unreasonably annoy or disturb persons ". That's pretty incredible. Don't know how or why you would fight that. Only thing you could do is "apply for a permit"....



https://www.strathcona.ca/files/file...aw-bl66-99.pdf

Best of luck, keep us posted.

[mattj117]

From the subdivision you can't hear the .22 at all and the shotgun you can hear if you step outside the vehicle but not if you are inside a vehicle with the vehicle off. I do wish Strathcona had a decibel limit because I would not have received these tickets. The whole "discretion of the officer" is something we argued in court. My range is located on the far end of the property in a valley so alot of the sound travels away from the subdivision and towards a wildlife reserve. I know when I test out handloads that can be a bit loud but that's not often and I don't shoot alot of them. I also think the main root of the whole issue started before I even started shooting. I was clearing my property line when a very "neighborly" lady paid me a visit. I can't say the experience was pleasant because she believed I was clearing her property but I was respectful. I then got the line surveyed (not just me using my GPS) and I was clearing my property not hers. Not even a week after I got it surveyed someone went and pulled all the pegs. I think (and I can't say for sure) that she is the one that got all the neighbors fired up about me shooting. I was talking to a friend in the area and he said there was lots of shooting going on even before I moved to the area and to this day alot of other people shoot in the area. Also I must add that after a little investigation 2 of the complainers are on the opposite side of of the subdivision (over a mile away!). It just seems fishy to me that out of everyone in the area that my shooting could possibly "annoy" it's a group of 8 freinds that are complaining about hearing something for and hour(maybe 2 maximum ammo is expensive) not even close to as loud as their neighbor on a lawn mower.