Ford to make all electric truck - probably the F-150

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Won't need cables. Just pop a Honda generator into the back of the bed if your going out into the bush for a few weeks and you are covered. The rest of the year just plug in at home and start every day with a "full tank".

You do realize that if you install a 220 V, 50 Amp service in your garage it will take over 9 hours to fully charge a 100 Kw battery.

I doubt that 3000 watt Honda inverter is going to help you much.

[Erik]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Yes, there are limitations (right now), but it also requires a different thought process. Using a trip from Calgary to Vancouver with an electric car for example. YES, you'd have to choose your charging stations ahead of time (3-4 hours), but planning it around a meal, so with a 40min plug-in you get 80% charge, on to the next one (3-4 hours).

Yes it extends the trip time presently, but you'll see the technology advance very quickly. I know Big rigs are looking at removable batteries, so you drive from calgary to edmonton, swap batteries, and head back.

For ~80% of the population current electric vehicles could easily handle most peoples transportation needs. I know for my family, I could easily survive with two present day electric vehicles. The problem would be my 2-3 long trips (between 8-10hours each way) of the year, I'd either have to extend the driving time or rent an ICE.

My issue is the price. I can buy 2019 Golf (Base model) for ~23g, While a 2019 egolf (base model) is ~37g. I'd have to $14000 in gas just to break even (I'm not including cost of charging because I don't know that number).
YEs, I understand the new tech costs money, but selling more cars would prove the products.

I don't think the problem is people's adaptability. The problem is the energy itself. For a 25k km per year half-ton the energy consumed by my rough calculation is something like the equivalent of about 31,000 kwh. That's like about 5x the electric energy of an average house. Supposing like for like efficiency and that there is a 1:1 house to car ratio, where are you going to find 5x the electricity, especially in renewables? This is before we even consider the fact that we burn natural gas to heat, that efficiency may not be that great, that fossil fuels will likely be consumed to produce the EVs, that there is a limit to the construction of renewables, that EV materials are not hoarded by certain countries, etc, etc. The scope and scale of the problem is immense. The cost isn't likely to decrease, just you will be forced to adopt that cost curve.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by bat119

So the furnace was stuck under the car shooting flames and gassing off?

The firefighter checked the Tesla website it recommended letting burn or dousing with lots of water.

Well water would have made a lithium fire worse. It creates hydrogen not a great thing next to a fire.

Maybe they didn't know...

[bat119]

From the Tesla site
FIREFIGHTING
USE WATER TO FIGHT A HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY FIRE. If the battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or is generating heat or
gases, use large amounts of water to cool the battery. It can take approximately 3,000 gallons of water, applied directly to the battery,
to fully extinguish and cool down a battery fire; always establish or request an additional water supply. If water is not immediately
available, use dry chemicals, CO2, foam, or another typical fire-extinguishing agent to fight the fire until water is available.
Extinguish small fires that do not involve the high voltage battery using typical vehicle firefighting procedures.
During overhaul, do not make contact with any high voltage components. Always use insulated tools for overhaul.
Heat and flames can compromise airbag inflators, stored gas inflation cylinders, gas struts, and other components which can result in
an unexpected explosion. Perform an adequate knock down before entering a hot zone.
Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish. Consider allowing the battery to burn while protecting exposures.
After all fire and smoke has visibly subsided, a thermal imaging camera can be used to actively measure the temperature of the high
voltage battery and monitor the trend of heating or cooling. There must not be fire, smoke, or heating present in the high voltage
battery for at least one hour before the vehicle can be released to second responders (such as law enforcement, vehicle transporters,
etc.). The battery must be completely cooled before releasing the vehicle to second responders or otherwise leaving the incident.
Always advise second responders that there is a risk of battery re-ignition.
Due to potential re-ignition, a Model 3 that has been involved in a submersion, fire, or a collision that has compromised the high
voltage battery should be stored in an open area at least 50 ft (15 m) from any exposure.
Warning: When fire is involved, consider the entire vehicle energized. Always wear full PPE, including a SCBA.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/...e_Guide_en.pdf

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

You do realize that if you install a 220 V, 50 Amp service in your garage it will take over 9 hours to fully charge a 100 Kw battery.

I doubt that 3000 watt Honda inverter is going to help you much.

How about a 6500 watt 240 volt ? Lots of people have these units in there RV's running all their various toys, so it's not a stretch in the least to use the same type of unit on that very infrequent time that you may need it in camp.
On a day to day basis the savings in not having $100 fill-ups would make an EV pick-up pretty appealing.
https://powerequipment.honda.ca/generators/economy-6500

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Erik

I don't think the problem is people's adaptability. The problem is the energy itself. For a 25k km per year half-ton the energy consumed by my rough calculation is something like the equivalent of about 31,000 kwh. That's like about 5x the electric energy of an average house. Supposing like for like efficiency and that there is a 1:1 house to car ratio, where are you going to find 5x the electricity, especially in renewables? This is before we even consider the fact that we burn natural gas to heat, that efficiency may not be that great, that fossil fuels will likely be consumed to produce the EVs, that there is a limit to the construction of renewables, that EV materials are not hoarded by certain countries, etc, etc. The scope and scale of the problem is immense. The cost isn't likely to decrease, just you will be forced to adopt that cost curve.

re: Adaptability, but that is a problem, albeit easily solvable as long as people get over their stuborn-ness.

I agree with the rest of your post 10000%. I never once said electric vehicles are more (or less) environmentally friendly than ICE vehicles. My points have been that EV's aren't any more dangerous than ICE in an accident. I find the technology fascinating.

Consider other problems:
Noise, or should I say lack thereof.

Take this for example
https://www.autoserviceworld.com/job...-championship/

FTR, I was at the Rocky Mountain Rally in 2003 as a spectator.

Now picture 20-30 proper rally cars (cages/etc) racing down a road. Now typically you'll hear these cars LONG before you see it, Not the case with this specific Prius. All you heard was gravel bouncing off metal when the car got about 100m away. Which is fine in this scenario as spectators are told to wait til the course closing car (sirens/lights/etc), but some don't.

Now picture driving at night, do you think the deer are gonna hear an EV? What about pedestrians?

It's kind of that same "safety" thing Harley riders use. "I'm safer because they can hear me", but to a lesser (noise) extent.

[Oldan Grumpi]

All kidding aside I think they’d be great for in-city delivery vehicles, commuters, or situations where you can be assured of plugging in every night.

Cab heat in winter and AC in summer might be an obstacle, however; both use tons of juice.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by bat119

From the Tesla site
FIREFIGHTING
USE WATER TO FIGHT A HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY FIRE. If the battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or is generating heat or
gases, use large amounts of water to cool the battery. It can take approximately 3,000 gallons of water, applied directly to the battery,
to fully extinguish and cool down a battery fire; always establish or request an additional water supply. If water is not immediately
available, use dry chemicals, CO2, foam, or another typical fire-extinguishing agent to fight the fire until water is available.
Extinguish small fires that do not involve the high voltage battery using typical vehicle firefighting procedures.
During overhaul, do not make contact with any high voltage components. Always use insulated tools for overhaul.
Heat and flames can compromise airbag inflators, stored gas inflation cylinders, gas struts, and other components which can result in
an unexpected explosion. Perform an adequate knock down before entering a hot zone.
Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish. Consider allowing the battery to burn while protecting exposures.
After all fire and smoke has visibly subsided, a thermal imaging camera can be used to actively measure the temperature of the high
voltage battery and monitor the trend of heating or cooling. There must not be fire, smoke, or heating present in the high voltage
battery for at least one hour before the vehicle can be released to second responders (such as law enforcement, vehicle transporters,
etc.). The battery must be completely cooled before releasing the vehicle to second responders or otherwise leaving the incident.
Always advise second responders that there is a risk of battery re-ignition.
Due to potential re-ignition, a Model 3 that has been involved in a submersion, fire, or a collision that has compromised the high
voltage battery should be stored in an open area at least 50 ft (15 m) from any exposure.
Warning: When fire is involved, consider the entire vehicle energized. Always wear full PPE, including a SCBA.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/...e_Guide_en.pdf

Wait.. I thought Tesla's didn't crash because of autopilot?

[jungleboy]

I love how everyone thinks that somehow electricity is a magic pill and they will drive guilt free and emissions free . Mining/refining all that Lithium has no effect on the environment? Electricity somehow come out of thin air? (Windmills don't cut it sorry),Tires and plastics are still petroleum products.

E vehicles are for the wealthy to show up at parties and make a statement , realty is they are totally impractical for this climate. As for hybrids, my neighbors daughter has one on the coast and says the mileage is really insignificantly better than a normal vehicle and much more expensive .

I remember reading somewhere that the "carbon footprint" of a Humvee is actually less than a Prius over the expected life of the vehicle

[Bigwoodsman]

In 2007 I took a tour in China for 3 weeks. Speaking with the tour guide and the locals, batteries were a huge problem. Storing the spent batteries and disposal of the battery was causing all kind of problems for their environment. Yes the smog was lessened and air quality improved slightly. However landfills were being filled with lead based batteries that no one had any idea how to dispose of without causing more concern.

BW

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by Scott h

How about a 6500 watt 240 volt ? Lots of people have these units in there RV's running all their various toys, so it's not a stretch in the least to use the same type of unit on that very infrequent time that you may need it in camp.
On a day to day basis the savings in not having $100 fill-ups would make an EV pick-up pretty appealing.
https://powerequipment.honda.ca/generators/economy-6500

Well, they are claiming about 600 kms out of a 180 Kw battery on the Rivian. Using those numbers you should get about 22 km of driving for every hour you charge with the 6500 watt generator (assuming 100% charge efficiency).
But the electricity would be cheaper than gas (providing you aren't getting it from the genny). Rough calculations show that I would save about $2000/year over my current pick-up truck for the 20,000 kms that I drive it.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

I love how everyone thinks that somehow electricity is a magic pill and they will drive guilt free and emissions free . Mining/refining all that Lithium has no effect on the environment? Electricity somehow come out of thin air? (Windmills don't cut it sorry),Tires and plastics are still petroleum products.

E vehicles are for the wealthy to show up at parties and make a statement , realty is they are totally impractical for this climate. As for hybrids, my neighbors daughter has one on the coast and says the mileage is really insignificantly better than a normal vehicle and much more expensive .

I remember reading somewhere that the "carbon footprint" of a Humvee is actually less than a Prius over the expected life of the vehicle

Once again, I don't think anyone HERE (on AOF in this thread) is saying that. At least I'm not. I know very well, that the "carbon footprint" (man I hate those words), is HUGE. It's the tech geek in me that likes them.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Oldan Grumpi

All kidding aside I think they’d be great for in-city delivery vehicles, commuters, or situations where you can be assured of plugging in every night.

Cab heat in winter and AC in summer might be an obstacle, however; both use tons of juice.

That really would be where they would shine. Could you imagine the $$ saved by something like Fed EX or Canada post where the vehicle is relegated to a specific in city stop and go route.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Oldan Grumpi

All kidding aside I think they’d be great for in-city delivery vehicles, commuters, or situations where you can be assured of plugging in every night.

Cab heat in winter and AC in summer might be an obstacle, however; both use tons of juice.

Yup, they will be especially practical in large southern cities. Northern Alberta not so much. Times are a changing, it will be interesting.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Well, they are claiming about 600 kms out of a 180 Kw battery on the Rivian. Using those numbers you should get about 22 km of driving for every hour you charge with the 6500 watt generator (assuming 100% charge efficiency).
But the electricity would be cheaper than gas (providing you aren't getting it from the genny). Rough calculations show that I would save about $2000/year over my current pick-up truck for the 20,000 kms that I drive it.

Yeah that Truck platform is probably not the most efficient ( who really needs 750 HP in a truck). I'm pretty sure when (if) the F150 EV comes out it won't have near that kind of horse power and probably be more efficient and cheaper.

[waldedw]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

I love how everyone thinks that somehow electricity is a magic pill and they will drive guilt free and emissions free . Mining/refining all that Lithium has no effect on the environment? Electricity somehow come out of thin air? (Windmills don't cut it sorry),Tires and plastics are still petroleum products.

E vehicles are for the wealthy to show up at parties and make a statement , realty is they are totally impractical for this climate. As for hybrids, my neighbors daughter has one on the coast and says the mileage is really insignificantly better than a normal vehicle and much more expensive .

I remember reading somewhere that the "carbon footprint" of a Humvee is actually less than a Prius over the expected life of the vehicle

exactly, I know a guy that has a hybrid Toyota and he calculates things out pretty well down to the penny, when he adds in the extra cost of the hybrid vehicle upon purchase he figures he will break even at somewhere around 600,000 km, which for him that will take about 20 years, how many people keep a vehicle that long ??but like he said he feels good trying to do something, so if the government really wanted to do something they could issue a $1,000 per year credit out of the carbon tax collection to anyone that registers an electric vehicle, wonder how that will fly hey

[Weedy1]

Originally Posted by bat119

Yikes! Tesla thermal battery runaway


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eFM9JJMH_0

Looks like they're capable of producing a decent amount of heat. They'll fit right in in Alberta. Who needs dirty oil when you can have dirty lithium ion?

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by 243plus

https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...ck/2595515002/


"Ford Motor Co. confirmed plans to build a fully electric F-Series pickup, which industry observers called an unexpected move that protects the truck franchise against Tesla and other competitors.

“We’re going to be electrifying the F-Series — battery electric and hybrid,” Jim Farley, Ford president of global markets, said Wednesday during a presentation at the Deutsche Bank Global Automotive Conference in the MGM Grand in Detroit."

Certainly that means electric vehicles are shortly to become mainstream. One wonders what the take up will be, as I suspect range will be the primary issue. If it is the F-150, that eliminates a lot of fleet vehicles... maybe. It's going to be an interesting few years coming up.

Geeez Andy, doesn’t take you long to start posting on electric vehicles again. Normstad, Avb3, Bighorn river and many more...

How’s Florida?

[Unregistered user]

Will they call it the Lightning II?

[243plus]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

Geeez Andy, doesn’t take you long to start posting on electric vehicles again. Normstad, Avb3, Bighorn river and many more...

How’s Florida?

????

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by 243plus

????

LOL! It’s obvious it is you Andy. Play dumb all you want...

The problem is you just can’t resist postiing on certain topics. When you come back so many times under so many different usernames, eventually you start to overlap on certain topics and your wording and writing style between the different usernames overlaps as well.

It’s pretty funny actually that you think you are so sneaky

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

Geeez Andy, doesn’t take you long to start posting on electric vehicles again. Normstad, Avb3, Bighorn river and many more...

How’s Florida?

I almost forgot, Jtestorini and Alta270. Couple of your other usernames.

[grouse_hunter]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

Geeez Andy, doesn’t take you long to start posting on electric vehicles again. Normstad, Avb3, Bighorn river and many more...

How’s Florida?

You just wait till Avb3 is out of frack school...

I will stick to my stinky, loud and reliable 12v Cummins for the foreseeable future. 8 liters of diesel to 100km at 115km/hr. The Webasto hydranic heater ensures that the old girl starts up under any environmental conditions.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by grouse_hunter

You just wait till Avb3 is out of frack school...

I’m not too worried

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

Well water would have made a lithium fire worse. It creates hydrogen not a great thing next to a fire.

Maybe they didn't know...

The Firefighters didn't know ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eFM9JJMH_0

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

LOL! It’s obvious it is you Andy. Play dumb all you want...

The problem is you just can’t resist postiing on certain topics. When you come back so many times under so many different usernames, eventually you start to overlap on certain topics and your wording and writing style between the different usernames overlaps as well.

It’s pretty funny actually that you think you are so sneaky

And just so it’s clear for other members, 243plus is actually self proclaimed activist Andy Von Busse. His original handle here was Avb3, but he has had many since, including all the ones I mentioned above.

[58thecat]

-34 today ......battery operated vehicles would luv this and at about 5 years they are done so replace them at about 5K....no thanks.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

-34 today ......battery operated vehicles would luv this and at about 5 years they are done so replace them at about 5K....no thanks.

Actually, battery life, even in Alberta has been much better than that. Many Hybrid batteries in Alberta easily last 20 years. The issue with pure electric is cold will definitely affect their range whereas with a hybrid you can switch to the combustion engine and range is not nearly as big an issue. For strictly City use I can see a pure electric but not if I am traveling outside the City very far..

[Trochu]

Seems like alot like to poopoo the idea of an electric vehicle. The thing is though, it would likely work for about 98% of our typical driving. I haven't found an exact number, but it would seem the average Canadian drives about 18k to 30k km annually. Taking the more conservative value of 30k km, that's an average of 82.2 km/day. If this has a range of 300 miles, an individual could drive almost 6x their daily average till they run out of charge.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Seems like alot like to poopoo the idea of an electric vehicle.

Yep.. Lots of "coffee talk" being taken as facts.