6.5 Shootout Comparison, How would you score it?

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by Maxwell78

I am shooting my 160gr ppsn woodleighs at 2650 fps from my swede using H4831sc. (sako 85 action with a rks 25"bbl, Mcmillian stock). Combine the .509 bc and the 328 sd and you get one heck of a combo.

"That cartridge design plays second fiddle to a good barrel chambered by a good gunsmith when shot by a good shooter who makes good handloads. "

This couldn't be said any better

That is a great combo although Woodleigh show a Max load as 48 grains 4198SC getting 2525 so I would imagine that your pressures are up there. They show the 260 Rem getting 2595 as a max with that bullet which is great as well. I would imagine that the 6.5CM would do OK as well.

Your load would be nice to have in Grizzly country as it is must be a tough bullet with a 2000 - 3000 recommended Impact Velocity and 2495 ft. lbs. ME. However for the average hunter id does not fare even as well as the 6.5CM, in this comparison, with 2060 RIV and 1500 ft. lbs. at 360 yards. Minimum RIV is reached at 400 yards with 1420 ft. lbs. remaining energy which is over the recommended for light game but expansion would be questionable. Great for large European Boar in close quarters for sure but a 25" barrel would not be optimal.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

A creedmore?

Im sorry I typo'd the name of your child

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Your skidding off course again. Yes, I figure the CM won't handle any where near a 160. Does your research tell you different ? I know a Swede will readily run them to 2670 . A short action means Dick to me, nor does recoil for that matter, nor does cheap ammo, nor does the CM Kool Aid. The CM does what it does quite well, but that's all it does.

Maybe you can pick up one of those 3.9" mags for your CM that Icelund was referring to. lol

I must of been taking a page from Chuck's notes as If I did post 3.9" mags it would have been a typo as I meant 2.9 + which I think was what I actually typed. Correct me if I am wrong by cutting and pasting form the post that you claim I wrote that. Otherwise I think it is time to put you on the ignore list as you are refusing to accept the facts as they are presented and you should know what that means.LOL

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by chuck

While on the topic, the Swede is a lousy fit in a long action as well. If using a long action why not go with the 6.5-06?

For the most part you are correct about the long action fit. However if you stick with European made actions, that doesn't apply. They fit perfectly. NA mfgrs have a problem duplicating European designed rifles and cartridges for some reason.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

I must of been taking a page from Chuck's notes as If I did post 3.9" mags it would have been a typo as I meant 2.9 + which I think was what I actually typed. Correct me if I am wrong by cutting and pasting form the post that you claim I wrote that. Otherwise I think it is time to put you on the ignore list as you are refusing to accept the facts as they are presented and you should know what that means.LOL

Come on, Its all in fun jabbing back and forth. I think we should all remember we are on the same side enjoying the same hobby.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

I must of been taking a page from Chuck's notes as If I did post 3.9" mags it would have been a typo as I meant 2.9 + which I think was what I actually typed. Correct me if I am wrong by cutting and pasting form the post that you claim I wrote that. Otherwise I think it is time to put you on the ignore list as you are refusing to accept the facts as they are presented and you should know what that means.LOL

If you want to see your post, go back and check it yourself. It's there, but I will grant you a typo... and please do put me on your ignore list . Appreciated !
.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

Im sorry I typo'd the name of your child

I just thought you couldn't spell, I didn't realize your ignorance.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

If you want to see your post, go back and check it yourself. It's there, but I will grant you a typo... and please do put me on your ignore list . Appreciated !
.

You're literally the last guy who should be talking about re-reading your own posts lol.

Now your talking about going back to European chamberings so your bolt fits properly...... might as well knock 200fps off your speed!

What a great cartridge!

[Nyksta]

To try and get back to discussing this cartridge. Can someone explain the confusion about 6.5CM and what size primer it uses. Is it determined by brass brand?

[Pathfinder76]

No.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

To try and get back to discussing this cartridge. Can someone explain the confusion about 6.5CM and what size primer it uses. Is it determined by brass brand?

I think the original case was designed with a large primer pocket ... and before too long Lapua (and perhaps others) started offering cases with small primer pockets. Many reloaders consider the small primer pocket beneficial in the construction of loads on the hot side as they reputedly withstand pressure better than their large counterparts.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

You're literally the last guy who should be talking about re-reading your own posts lol.

Now your talking about going back to European chamberings so your bolt fits properly...... might as well knock 200fps off your speed!

What a great cartridge!

Just as a FYI.. while you're reading, and hopefully learning something, check out the European spec (CIP) to learn a bit more. I think you may find that their pressure ratings for the Swede are a bit different than SAMMI. In many cases their chamber dims for many Euro cartridges are different as well.
My Swede rifles and cartridge are of European origin. Why would I resort to SAMMI as a guide ?

I'm not going back anywhere.

[Salavee]

I believe Hornady are now offering CM brass with the small pockets.

[SakoShooter]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Just as a FYI.. while you're reading, and hopefully learning something, check out the European spec (CIP) to learn a bit more. I think you may find that their pressure ratings for the Swede are a bit different than SAMMI. In many cases their chamber dims for many Euro cartridges are different as well.
My Swede rifles and cartridge are of European origin. Why would I resort to SAMMI as a guide ?

I'm not going back anywhere.

Sammi, that's probably a Finnish name I suppose....ie Sammi Salo.

I think you meam SAAMI. Live by the sword....etc.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Just as a FYI.. while you're reading, and hopefully learning something, check out the European spec (CIP) to learn a bit more. I think you may find that their pressure ratings for the Swede are a bit different than SAMMI. In many cases their chamber dims for many Euro cartridges are different as well.
My Swede rifles and cartridge are of European origin. Why would I resort to SAMMI as a guide ?

I'm not going back anywhere.

Did you know that it's only 55,000psi compared to 52,000 SAAMI? Compared to the Creedmoor @ 62,000psi? Your Swede is looking more and more mediocre, I'm even more pleased with my choice now that you've taught me so much about your Swede. The Swede is looking like a misfit cartridge now.... too long for a short action, too short for a long action, nobody can get the pressure right.... no wonder they had to invent the Creedmoor, sheesh.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Did you know that it's only 55,000psi compared to 52,000 SAAMI? Compared to the Creedmoor @ 62,000psi? Your Swede is looking more and more mediocre, I'm even more pleased with my choice now that you've taught me so much about your Swede. The Swede is looking like a misfit cartridge now.... too long for a short action, too short for a long action, nobody can get the pressure right.... no wonder they had to invent the Creedmoor, sheesh.

Pretty much aware. I'm also aware of what pressures my rifles and cases will safely tolerate . That's why I run them at 59000. If they can safely handle .270 W and 30-06 pressures ... well, you know the rest.

[SakoShooter]

In all seriousness....the 6.5 swede is a classy old chambering that still does the job better than most.

Yes, there are advantages to the 6.5 creedmoor, and other more modern 6.5's, advantages that may or may not make a difference to an individual based on their situation.

If you handload, and have a rifle with a medium action, don't ever care about using factory ammo but want to load light to heavy bullets, and want to have something with a bit of history and mystique behind it....the 6.5 swede foots the bill.

If you want a 6.5 and like to shoot off the shelf ammo, want a short action, like to be on the cutting edge of long range developements....it's hard to argue that the creedmoor isn't a better choice.

Neither of these are bad, and anybody who is a fan of one, and talks smack about the other is, frankly, either an idiot or a troll.

Or just getting bent out of shape over an internet "difference of opinion" and saying things that they don't really believe and will probably regret in the morning?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

To try and get back to discussing this cartridge. Can someone explain the confusion about 6.5CM and what size primer it uses. Is it determined by brass brand?

Alpha makes both, Lapua makes small, Starline makes both.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Pretty much aware. I'm also aware of what pressures my rifles and cases will safely tolerate . That's why I run them at 59000. If they can safely handle .270 W and 30-06 pressures ... well, you know the rest.

Don't you think it's a bit of a hassle and a guessing game to figure out by trial and error how much powder is safe in your gun when you can just buy one off the shelf with excellent, inexpensive ammo on the shelf that'll pretty much match what you work so hard to figure out?

I bought a couple boxes of lapua brass and about 500 bulletin anticipation of its arrival, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not really happy about the premium factory offerings they got out for $35/box!

I know I got on you about the Swede, it was mostly for my own entertainment. I still got 7 weeks on crutches so I'm kind of liking these Creedmoor threads lol!!

PS, as far as a hunting rifle goes, whether it's a 243, 6.5 (creed, Swede, or any of the ilk) 308, 270, 280, 30-30, 30-06, or 300mag, I'd gladly pack any one of them out moose hunting and not feel one bit under gunned.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Don't you think it's a bit of a hassle and a guessing game to figure out by trial and error how much powder is safe in your gun when you can just buy one off the shelf with excellent, inexpensive ammo on the shelf that'll pretty much match what you work so hard to figure out?

I bought a couple boxes of lapua brass and about 500 bulletin anticipation of its arrival, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not really happy about the premium factory offerings they got out for $35/box!

I know I got on you about the Swede, it was mostly for my own entertainment. I still got 7 weeks on crutches so I'm kind of liking these Creedmoor threads lol!!

PS, as far as a hunting rifle goes, whether it's a 243, 6.5 (creed, Swede, or any of the ilk) 308, 270, 280, 30-30, 30-06, or 300mag, I'd gladly pack any one of them out moose hunting and not feel one bit under gunned.

I was aware of the quality factory ammo being offered. I have a friend in the US that is totally immersed in the the CM and he keeps me informed of most of the happenings. I think that ammo is pretty much geared to the AR platforms, not the precision crowd. That's why I felt you would be disappointed when your rifle arrived and you tried that stuff.
I totally enjoy working with new powders, bullets etc and trying to squeeze out the best performance possible with each and every cartridges I load for. Being retired, I guess it's a full time hobby with me.
As to getting on me, I kinda knew that I really don't have a problem with it at all. I enjoy those threads as well .. with all the different opinions (and attitudes). It's part of a forum program I guess, as I see it anyway.
Having rifles in several calibers from .20 thru to .366 I have enough to keep me busy .. especially with all the new stuff surfacing these days. Like yourself, I have no problem with any cartridge ever developed. It's simply a matter of course that I have gravitated toward some favorites... as does everyone else.

It's all good - and be assured there is no ill will toward you at all. Looking forward to the next go-round..

[Beeman3]

Originally Posted by rem338win

All this pitter patter and I'm still enjoying the 6.5x47 Lapua. Been shooting 130gr VLDs and 123 Scenars near 2900fps since 2008 and it kills very well.

The Creedmore is just more the same.

Couldn't agree more. I will stick with my two 6.5X47's. One runs the 130 Berger at 2980 fps the other gun shoots 130 AccuBonds at 2910 fps. Seems to kill things just fine. I don't think I am giving anything up to the Creed or the 260. Maybe a few feet per second but that's it.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Beeman3

Couldn't agree more. I will stick with my two 6.5X47's. One runs the 130 Berger at 2980 fps the other gun shoots 130 AccuBonds at 2910 fps. Seems to kill things just fine. I don't think I am giving anything up to the Creed or the 260. Maybe a few feet per second but that's it.

After shooting the Creedmoor, I’m not sure how you guys run these speeds in the 6.5x47.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by rem338win

All this pitter patter and I'm still enjoying the 6.5x47 Lapua. Been shooting 130gr VLDs and 123 Scenars near 2900fps since 2008 and it kills very well.

The Creedmore is just more the same.

Love the data on the 6.5x47 too. Where can i pick up some factory ammo for that?

Kidding but, If someone had gotten behind the 6.5x47 with some of those more mainstream ideas it would have taken off....or did someone? What's his nutz Dennis DeMille and what's his ballz Dave Emary, basically did exactly that in a different way. Pretty neat story, check it out.

http://www.65creedmoor.com/index.php?topic=5826.0

On a marketing standpoint i think giving it a name, strong but not just a word...a name, was a smart move too. 6.5x47 vs 6.5 Creedmoor....hmmm, in discussion alone one rolls off the tongue a little easier, not that it matters what it's called performance wise but sure helps set it apart for the human factor, we like names more than we like numbers

just on the birth story of the creedmoor alone it's pretty incredible, some amazing minds behind it and a company that took the chance to back them

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Love the data on the 6.5x47 too. Where can i pick up some factory ammo for that?

Kidding but, If someone had gotten behind the 6.5x47 with some of those more mainstream ideas it would have taken off....or did someone? What's his nutz Dennis DeMille and what's his ballz Dave Emary, basically did exactly that in a different way. Pretty neat story, check it out.

http://www.65creedmoor.com/index.php?topic=5826.0

On a marketing standpoint i think giving it a name, strong but not just a word...a name, was a smart move too. 6.5x47 vs 6.5 Creedmoor....hmmm, in discussion alone one rolls off the tongue a little easier, not that it matters what it's called performance wise but sure helps set it apart for the human factor, we like names more than we like numbers

just on the birth story of the creedmoor alone it's pretty incredible, some amazing minds behind it and a company that took the chance to back them

Lapua makes factory ammo for the 6.5x47.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by chuck

Lapua makes factory ammo for the 6.5x47.

lol i knew someone would be, will run out at lunch and grab some from cabelas today

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by chuck

After shooting the Creedmoor, I’m not sure how you guys run these speeds in the 6.5x47.

curious if this is similar to what i heard about 6 dashers? a part of their consistency is high pressures? interesting the comments i saw elsewhere that 6.5x47's now running comparable groups to the dashers at distance, relation?

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

curious if this is similar to what i heard about 6 dashers? a part of their consistency is high pressures? interesting the comments i saw elsewhere that 6.5x47's now running comparable groups to the dashers at distance, relation?

The 6.5 X 47 and Dashers have been around for years and it seems like the 6BR and it’s spawn (BRA/BRDX/Dasher/et al) have earned a dominant position in the mid/long Range BR game. Doesn’t sound like the ‘47s are positioned to push the 6mm’s off the pedestal ... unless wishful thinking earns points

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

The 6.5 X 47 and Dashers have been around for years and it seems like the 6BR and it’s spawn (BRA/BRDX/Dasher/et al) have earned a dominant position in the mid/long Range BR game. Doesn’t sound like the ‘47s are positioned to push the 6mm’s off the pedestal ... unless wishful thinking earns points

So there is something to inherent accuracy?

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by chuck

So there is something to inherent accuracy?

I don’t think “inherent” applies...the bullet doesn’t know what cartridge pushed it past the crown. As mentioned, the mid/long range BR games seem to be dominated by 6 BR and their spawn (espescially in the Light Gun category). There are differences between the 6 BR / BRA / DX / Dasher in terms of cartridge case shape and internal volume BUT they do have in common, very good brass, a narrow range of powder capacity, small primer pockets ...launching bullets at optimum speeds with modest recoil. Obviously the quality of bullets is also a factor.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I don’t think “inherent” applies...the bullet doesn’t know what cartridge pushed it past the crown. As mentioned, the mid/long range BR games seem to be dominated by 6 BR and their spawn (espescially in the Light Gun category). There are differences between the 6 BR / BRA / DX / Dasher in terms of cartridge case shape and internal volume BUT they do have in common, very good brass, a narrow range of powder capacity, small primer pockets ...launching bullets at optimum speeds with modest recoil. Obviously the quality of bullets is also a factor.

So that general case design lends itself to better accuracy. I think that has been fairly well proven.