Mule doe pemits in 108

[Full Curl Earl]

There are 631 Mule deer doe permits in WMU 108.
Whats with our process to keep knocking the crud out of our deer herds?
I have historically hunted this zone, for many years, and have not seen this low a number for does ever, at least not in the Southern part. Is the Northern portion covered up in anterless deer? I doubt the Milk River will ever rebound to what it once was. A shame trally.

[SHEDHEAD]

Pretty disgusting. Iv never seen this little of deer either. The north and west is no better. Pretty disgusted at what we saw from some hunters the past couple of days. My mule deer doe draw will not be getting used. Just as I intended.

[Curly Bill]

Highlander hunting podcast had a biologist on recently and they briefly talked about CWD and mule deer in southern Alberta. After listening to him talk about populations “one” would come away thinking that mule deer numbers are fine, and there’s no drastic decline when comparing historical numbers.

Now I’m no biologist but when I compare the number of mule deer I would see 10 years ago to now there is without question a drastic decline. So without talking to a biologist I think all avid mule deer hunters, even just in the last 10 years to now, can agree that there is a significant decrease in numbers and we’re not even biologists.

In 2003 the antlerless mule deer quota for wmu108 was 47. In 2009, 600. I would like to have a little podcast of my own with that biologist.

[Husty]

F&W/Govt Biologists possibly trying to stop CWD by culling? I remember 10 years ago when I used to hunt 102 they were doing the same, they would even use helicopters if I remember right. I think a much larger portion of deer in the area are testing positive, although I can remember the numbers. Who knows how many have died from CWD out in the wild?

[Curly Bill]

Originally Posted by Husty

F&W/Govt Biologists possibly trying to stop CWD by culling? I remember 10 years ago when I used to hunt 102 they were doing the same, they would even use helicopters if I remember right. I think a much larger portion of deer in the area are testing positive, although I can remember the numbers. Who knows how many have died from CWD out in the wild?

Thats what I believe 100%. But to have a biologist sit there and say numbers are fine? That’s just so far from the obvious.

CWD positive deer dying in the wild? Anyone ever shoot a CWD positive deer that had characteristics of CWD? From all reports I’ve heard “never would have guessed that animal was CWD positive”.

[Husty]

Originally Posted by Curly Bill

Thats what I believe 100%. But to have a biologist sit there and say numbers are fine? That’s just so far from the obvious.

CWD positive deer dying in the wild? Anyone ever shoot a CWD positive deer that had characteristics of CWD? From all reports I’ve heard “never would have guessed that animal was CWD positive”.

Probably fine in the sense they don't want any live deer there, Doe's especially as they are more social and spread to each other at a higher rate. To get rid of CWD you have to remove every last infected animal which is impossible.

[jcrayford]

Originally Posted by Husty

Probably fine in the sense they don't want any live deer there, Doe's especially as they are more social and spread to each other at a higher rate. To get rid of CWD you have to remove every last infected animal which is impossible.

2018 Hunting Regulations

From the regs: "Hunters and outfitters play a key role in assisting big game management by helping to reduce deer numbers and by providing heads from harvested deer for the ongoing CWD surveillance program. Alberta began looking for CWD in wild deer in the hunting seasons in 1998. Since then, we have tested over 67,000 heads and have found CWD in 796 mule deer, 119 white-tailed deer, 1 unknown deer, 2 elk, and 1 moose. "

What I take away from that is the Mule Deer are more susceptible to infections of CWD? But that's only my thoughts....

The real data analysis is located here: http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/...e/default.aspx and http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/...s/default.aspx

J.

[tracker]

Your voluntary harvest report has the option to rate your hunting experience. I put POOR becuase of the reasons discussed here.

[marky_mark]

I dont know who the biologist is for that area but I don’t think they are doing a good job

Very few deer on the Alberta side of the border compared to Saskatchewan

They botched the antelope hunt this year and didn’t reduce any of the tags . Even though they had a horrible winter and countless died.

These biologist should be accountable

[KBF]

I have an antlered tag right now for 108. What small antlerless herds there are have very few fawn with them. Recruitment will be next to nothing going into winter.

[dicknormal]

They random checked a bunch of heads from 108 last year, just watch the tags jump when they get a confirmed case.

[CantThinkOfAName]

Originally Posted by Curly Bill

Highlander hunting podcast had a biologist on recently and they briefly talked about CWD and mule deer in southern Alberta. After listening to him talk about populations “one” would come away thinking that mule deer numbers are fine, and there’s no drastic decline when comparing historical numbers.

I seem to remember the biologist talking about general animal numbers throughout the province, not specifically talking about the south. I could be wrong.
Since the tags have been high since they found CWD, I would guess they are keeping animal populations low.

[elkhunter1234]

The mule deer # are by far the lowest I’ve ever seen in over 40 years of hunting 108. I also have an antlered mule tag and Spent yesterday in the Del Boneta area and never seen a buck over 160” ish. Whoever made the decision to give out over 600 anterless draws and than give everyone drawn 2 tags is crazy nuts..

[shakeyleg02]

They used to give out 3 tags for Muley doe in 110 a few years back ..you couldn't buy a doe ....hardly any left ..the population is somewhat rebounding now as I'm seeing a few more herds around now days

[Full Curl Earl]

Same boat here. Seen whitetails with fawns, but almost no mule deer with this years fawns.
If they are so concerned with CWD spreading, youd think they would have mandatory testing in 108.
CWD is here, no one has been able to eradicate it. So who are we stopping the flow of CWD from reaching?

Originally Posted by KBF

I have an antlered tag right now for 108. What small antlerless herds there are have very few fawn with them. Recruitment will be next to nothing going into winter.

[H380]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

There are 631 Mule deer doe permits in WMU 108.
Whats with our process to keep knocking the crud out of our deer herds?
I have historically hunted this zone, for many years, and have not seen this low a number for does ever, at least not in the Southern part. Is the Northern portion covered up in anterless deer? I doubt the Milk River will ever rebound to what it once was. A shame trally.

I posted this in a thread a couple weeks ago and no one commented on it .. You have only have half the facts here . Yes , there are 631 "licences " given out , the sad part is THEY ARE ALL DOUBLE TAGGED !!! Yup , thats 1262 TAGS , we hunted here yesterday and saw 3 bucks to each doe spotted .Rut is on and bucks are really covering the country but there is little for them to find . I dont know how the bio in this zone even has a job . We suffered at least 20% winterkill , words from his own mouth , and they go and give out this many tags ... unbelievable . As KBF stated fawns are a no show and many of the survivors will get nailed along with mama to fill that second tag , I doubt that mule deer hunting in this zone will ever rebound from this screwup . We dont have to worry about CWD here , the bios are gonna kill all the remnants of a great herd .

[RZR]

They’re all on the big ranches that you can’t access! Took a drive by the one ranch and seen lots of mule deer, just can’t hunt there.

[bitterrootfly]

Originally Posted by CantThinkOfAName

I seem to remember the biologist talking about general animal numbers throughout the province, not specifically talking about the south. I could be wrong.
Since the tags have been high since they found CWD, I would guess they are keeping animal populations low.

I’m pretty sure he was the biologist for southern Alberta and his comments seemed to be directed in general towards the populations he had direct control over, whenever other areas were mentioned he tended to reference the other districts. I’d live to ask this fellow what’s up with the tags, I’m sure what ever reason he gives won’t be good enough.

[newguy]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I dont know who the biologist is for that area but I don’t think they are doing a good job

Very few deer on the Alberta side of the border compared to Saskatchewan

They botched the antelope hunt this year and didn’t reduce any of the tags . Even though they had a horrible winter and countless died.

These biologist should be accountable

X2!
A friend is a F/W officer and he said deer numbers took a huge hit because of the 2017 November snow and then the freeze right after. Many calls came into their office about dead deer and antelope in the fields in the spring.

[H380]

Originally Posted by RZR

They’re all on the big ranches that you can’t access! Took a drive by the one ranch and seen lots of mule deer, just can’t hunt there.

Sorry but you are mistaken ,yes I dont doubt you saw some deer ,but I have friends that cowboy on the 3 biggest ranches in the zone and they said the deer are gone for the most part ..Dead deer were.laying like cord wood all over these places last spring .

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[H380]

Originally Posted by RZR

They’re all on the big ranches that you can’t access! Took a drive by the one ranch and seen lots of mule deer, just can’t hunt there.

Just a thought, what do you consider "lots "?

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[Versatile]

Originally Posted by H380

Sorry but you are mistaken ,yes I dont doubt you saw some deer ,but I have friends that cowboy on the 3 biggest ranches in the zone and they said the deer are gone for the most part ..Dead deer were.laying like cord wood all over these places last spring .

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I heard this as well. Winter was tough up there, farmers were plowing feed to their cattle until the middle of may.

Last spring I watched a heard of does that was probably 300 strong. Havent seen that many all year this year but am still seeing lots of deer.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by H380

Just a thought, what do you consider "lots "?

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Just in the one quarter section I saw 60 head of Mulies and most of them were bucks. The Outfitters have it all to themselves. That's not bad for one quarter section. I'd bet the further in on the ranch you go it's just as good for numbers.

[H380]

Originally Posted by RZR

Just in the one quarter section I saw 60 head of Mulies and most of them were bucks. The Outfitters have it all to themselves. That's not bad for one quarter section. I'd bet the further in on the ranch you go it's just as good for numbers.

Ok , when did you see these deer ? And for clarification the outfitter is no longer allowed on this property if its the same one that we are talking about . A win win situation for all of us . Ive been told that ranch employees are all that are allowed to hunt there now , something I can sure live with . I have property that borders 2 of the big non hunting ranches and I can assure you that the population of mule deer doesnt get any better as you go in . I sat on a high hill yesterday morning before the wind came up and I counted 8 mules in 8 sections of land on one side and none , I repeat none in at least twice that much the other side . I'm not trying to start or continue an arguement about numbers , just stating the sad truth about the decline and total mismanagement of a resource . When we had a brutal winter last year like we did why an educated bio would issue 1262 tags in a zone with such a loss do that .. mindboggling . Like I said before , we dont have to worry about CWD killing them off , the bio is gonna finish the job .

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by H380

Sorry but you are mistaken ,yes I dont doubt you saw some deer ,but I have friends that cowboy on the 3 biggest ranches in the zone and they said the deer are gone for the most part ..Dead deer were.laying like cord wood all over these places last spring .

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I saw quite a few deer carcasses in 108 this fall while hunting pheasant in the coulees...mostly Fawns

[dustinjoels]

Do you guys think the biologists really don’t know what the impact on deer populations in these zones are? They are striving for massive herd reductions in mule deer in the frontline CWD zones. Just like they aim to significantly lower whitetail and moose populations in caribou zones. It’s not that they are making mistakes and don’t know what the numbers are like. They want the numbers to be super low. Hunting opportunities in these zones aren’t their priority. Other agendas. And hunters are the tool. Much cheaper than helicopters.

Of course it sucks for the hunters in these zones. But to claim they don’t have a pulse of what is going on is asinine. They know populations are hurting. It’s their goal.

I don’t necessarily agree with their strategies, but that is their plan.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by dustinjoels

Do you guys think the biologists really don’t know what the impact on deer populations in these zones are? They are striving for massive herd reductions in mule deer in the frontline CWD zones. Just like they aim to significantly lower whitetail and moose populations in caribou zones. It’s not that they are making mistakes and don’t know what the numbers are like. They want the numbers to be super low. Hunting opportunities in these zones aren’t their priority. Other agendas. And hunters are the tool. Much cheaper than helicopters.

Of course it sucks for the hunters in these zones. But to claim they don’t have a pulse of what is going on is asinine. They know populations are hurting. It’s their goal.

I don’t necessarily agree with their strategies, but that is their plan.

They need a new strategy

[H380]

Striving for a lower population in case we get CWD.. in case we do ..now that is a real good plan.. in a like getting all your teeth pulled so you dont get cavities .Nothing personal but this "plan " of said bio is the asinine one .You really think he knows what he is doing ? As marky mark says , he needs a new strategy

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[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Husty

Probably fine in the sense they don't want any live deer there, Doe's especially as they are more social and spread to each other at a higher rate. To get rid of CWD you have to remove every last infected animal which is impossible.

CWD will stay in the soil for years and can be spread basically for ever. Culls have been proven over and over not to work because of this. Decimating herds only reduces the numbers with CWD because of the huge decline in overall numbers but does nothing to get rid of it.

Most states and other provinces have stopped doing culls because they have proven to achieve nothing.
Lots of info on CWD and culling if you want to research further.

[dustinjoels]

Originally Posted by H380

Striving for a lower population in case we get CWD.. in case we do ..now that is a real good plan.. in a like getting all your teeth pulled so you dont get cavities .Nothing personal but this "plan " of said bio is the asinine one .You really think he knows what he is doing ? As marky mark says , he needs a new strategy

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I never said it was a good plan or one I agree with. You guys are all complaining that the bio doesn’t realize the numbers are hurting though. The biologists know what the numbers are. For one reason or another they don’t want the high deer population numbers in these zones. It’s not that they are mistakingly giving out too many tags, they want a lower population than your glory years.