Shotgun with slugs and 00 or 45/70

[cleson]

So you're walking down a trail, using your air horn every so often to warn bears of your presence. There are dense willows around the trail and your packsack reaks of fish. Suddenly a ****ed off Grizz or big black bear comes at you at high speed from 50 ft. He's grunting and running fast toward you! What would you rather have for bear protection? A shotty with 00/slug/slug or a 1895 45/70 marlin? I've heard the argument that you are so scared that maybe the 00 in the shotgunis better, but shot placement is still a big deal. From 50/40/30 feet, I don't think those pellets will spread too much. I'm thinking the 45/70 is the better option.

What are your thoughts?

[Young Eldon]

Don’t be blowing that GD air horn all day – it will annoy the world, make you deaf, run dry and be useless when you need it!!!!!! Otherwise, they can be good to scare bears off while they are still a fair ways from you.

Get a can of bear spray, keep it current and learn to tell the difference between bear “defensive” and “predatory” behaviours. Do your homework!

If you must back iron, just in case you ever need to use it on a bear – take a reliable pump action shotgun that you can hit fast moving targets with consistently (ghost ring sights). A 12 gauge can handle a much wider variety of ammunition (shell crackers, screamers, rubber bullets, pellets and slugs) than any rifle. Save the pellets for birds!

Have many great trips in bear country, even if you don’t see many bears!

[bigoldan43]

Both guns have the energy to do the terminal damage required.

I would suggest picking the weapon you are most practiced with.
In the hands of a duck hunter that shoots a brazillion clays a year, a pump shotgun would be devastating to the bear.
In the hands of a big game/gopher hunter who never shoots a shotgun, but shoots a brazillion gophers a year with a lever 22, then I'd suggest the Marlin.
That's the catagory I fall in. I've used a Marlin for 20+ years for a bear gun. Fortunatly, I've never needed it in fear, but that's what I'm comfortable with.
To go one step further I would add this. If you never use pumps or levers but are very comfortable with a bolt, I'd suggest a short big bore bolt gun. Something like the Remington Guide gun in 350 Rem, or the new 338 Federal.

The bottom line is pick the action you can instinctively use with a certain amount of point and shoot accuracy. Of course, practice, practice, practice. Then pick a projectile that is really heavy, large diameter and sturdy that will penetrate deeply and make a really big hole.

[timsesink]

A pump with slugs or a lever action Marlin in 45-70 or almost identical under a 100yards. Either or, whatever you've got handy. But as was said carry bear spray and your usually better off.

[Tracker34]

Originally Posted by bigoldan43

Both guns have the energy to do the terminal damage required.

I would suggest picking the weapon you are most practiced with.
In the hands of a duck hunter that shoots a brazillion clays a year, a pump shotgun would be devastating to the bear.
In the hands of a big game/gopher hunter who never shoots a shotgun, but shoots a brazillion gophers a year with a lever 22, then I'd suggest the Marlin.
That's the catagory I fall in. I've used a Marlin for 20+ years for a bear gun. Fortunatly, I've never needed it in fear, but that's what I'm comfortable with.
To go one step further I would add this. If you never use pumps or levers but are very comfortable with a bolt, I'd suggest a short big bore bolt gun. Something like the Remington Guide gun in 350 Rem, or the new 338 Federal.

The bottom line is pick the action you can instinctively use with a certain amount of point and shoot accuracy. Of course, practice, practice, practice. Then pick a projectile that is really heavy, large diameter and sturdy that will penetrate deeply and make a really big hole.

X2

My preferance is my 12 ga coachgun with 3" magnum, 1 1/4 oz slugs. It's what I good and comfortable with.

[cleson]

In my first post, that would probably be a defensive charge. Still scarey though.

I carry bear spray. I should probably buy 2 cans, because the one I have is getting old. I need to go out and practice with it. I actually read an article that showed the percentages for detterring bears. The spray was 95% effective in scaring a charging or stalking bear. The sound of the gun was only 65% effective. There were, however, 3 times more cases where the gun blast was used. I still like using the horn periodically while I'm on the trail.

As far as education. I have watched some videos and read a few books. Identifying behaviour is important. I lived in Prince George most my life, and Kitimat for 7 years. I have been around a lot of bears and have never been charged. I felt like I was being stalked by a black once. That was super scarey. He just kept coming toward me slowly. His head was swaying back and forth. My truck was 10 feet away, so I just got in and left. I would just like a gun for back up. I'm kind of leaning toward a shotgun, because that is what I can get for free. It's an old winchester with rifle sights and a short barrel. It would be piece of mind when camping.

[timsesink]

That sounds perfect for a camp gun, load er up with slugs (not buckshot!!!!!!) and your good to go. For more info on the slugs vs. buckshot debate there was a great thread a while back, but I'm to lazy to link it. End result, slugs won by about the circumference of the earth in all regards.

[Stinky Coyote]

and just watched a tactical show on the tube comparing home defense weapons and the shotgun was shot at 10 yrds and 25 yrds with 9 pellet buckshot, was basically a single hole on target at 10 yrds and pattern was inside 6" circle at 25 yrds....stick with slugs if thats your choice...or spend 30-40 bucks and only carry 10 oz tops with a can of bearspray and have something even more effective for way less money and weight....its like having your cake and eating it too

[catnthehat]

A fifty foot , all out charge from a black bear is enough to make most people freeze, and they can cover a heap of ground from fifty feet away - faster than someone can deploy a shouldered gun of any sort and make a good shot before the bear is on them ( I've been involved in a few where my gun was out already, going in after a wounded bear) .
A grizzly would , I suspect, be on top of a person in that instance if in fact it was an all out charge.
That being said, I always preferred a SXS with slugs and double triggers - both barrels at once at tooth gnashing range!
Cat

[Gonehuntin']

Awareness, education , maybe a can of the pressurized pepper for spice ( I would not want to taste bland to B'rer Bear) and an 870 full of the nastiest slug loads I can cook up.

[dirty barrel]

for an alberta grizzly, either or would work great for the initial charge, but would back that up with a phone number for a good defence lawyer for the secondary charge.

[Arn?Narn.]

Well the 12 or 45/70 in the OP oth sound good... I'd take the the 45/70...

Chances are however, for me at least, that a charging bear would be shot incidently by whatever calibre I was hunting with, if he got shot at all.

at 50 feet on a full cahrge you will have all you can do to get off one shot and I suspect even then you'd come face to fur...

As for understanding bear behaviour,...bluff charges etc etc etc.

I have heard people speak of "knowing bear behaviour"..."knowing when you are bluff charged as opposed to really charged"...

My .02 cents is that I am dealing with an animal tha close the distance on me from 100 yrds in mere seconds...and kill me within seconds of that.

I can tell you right now, that within 75 yrds of me...I will not be doing a psychological assesment of the bears agression as to whether it is real or not, nor trying to decipher often ambiguous physical ques as to whether his agression is real or not.

Bears walking away can continue to walk away,....my only guarantee when it comes to bear defense.

[Lonnie]

it is amasing how many people have know clue as to how fast a slow fat bear can move 75 yards your 1st shot better hit home because your not likely to geta 2nd one in if you miss that 1st one. they can move like greased lighting when they want to

[bigoldan43]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

it is amasing how many people have know clue as to how fast a slow fat bear can move 75 yards your 1st shot better hit home because your not likely to geta 2nd one in if you miss that 1st one. they can move like greased lighting when they want to

Yup, you're right. Hard to imagine the cute and cuddly looking bear can outrun a horse.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Lonnie

it is amasing how many people have know clue as to how fast a slow fat bear can move 75 yards your 1st shot better hit home because your not likely to geta 2nd one in if you miss that 1st one. they can move like greased lighting when they want to

Yup, the big ol' side saddle loaded with slugs/00buck, and special pump action with "speed" trigger parts, tactical sling, with an underslung flash light for a bear defense shotgun just slays me ( saw one last week)!
Cat

[BallCoeff.435]

Wear bear bells. Don't play with some noisy, troublesome, expensive horn. Bears already hear really well, even if they're preoccupied with eating.

It's also a good idea not to stink of anything in bear country, especially fish. Large zip-lock bags are pretty cheap and can hold a good-sized trout. Bells, cleanliness and staying in the open where you can see around you should take care of 90% of bear problems.

Any old light, short rifle with chambered cartridge 300WM or stronger, with good iron sights, shooting a 220 grain bullet or bigger will seriously discourage large charging animals. But you better have it in your hands ready to fire that one shot you're going to get.

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...2-16f2ed648cb6

On the other hand, be careful you don't take down the neighbor's dog or some hiker charging out of the bushes being chased by a bunch of wasps.

[mudbug]

Well first of all a Liberal would ask the bear what it's intentions are but a normal person would use either the 45 70 or 12 gauge with slugs. Which ever one your the most comfortable with should be your choice. I'd be more comfortable with my 870 at close range I have one of the 870 combo packages and really like the 20" barrel with the iron sights and imp cyl on it

[cleson]

Originally Posted by dirty barrel

for an alberta grizzly, either or would work great for the initial charge, but would back that up with a phone number for a good defence lawyer for the secondary charge.

I'd be happy to go to court if I was still alive. I've never fired a fire arm at anything other than targets and animals which I was liscensed to hunt. I have been around a lot of bears and never had the thought that I should shoot it. If I shoot a bear in the bush, it will be to save my life! And I will gladly tell my tale to anyone that will listen. Judges, lawyers, prison guards, (Hopefully no Bubbas. lol)

[Tracker34]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

A fifty foot , all out charge from a black bear is enough to make most people freeze, and they can cover a heap of ground from fifty feet away - faster than someone can deploy a shouldered gun of any sort and make a good shot before the bear is on them ( I've been involved in a few where my gun was out already, going in after a wounded bear) .
A grizzly would , I suspect, be on top of a person in that instance if in fact it was an all out charge.
That being said, I always preferred a SXS with slugs and double triggers - both barrels at once at tooth gnashing range!
Cat

X2 on the SXS. Got 2 of them.