Airport employee steals plane.

[sewerrat]

Holy smokes this guy steals an Alaska airlines plane in Seattle, turns out he was not a happy man but he went for an joyflight and ended his life.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4382986/r...rport-seattle/

https://youtu.be/QPc0ERNgHxI

[3blade]

Yikes. Scary situation, sad ending. Wonder how far off the fighters were...pretty surprising they didn’t bring him down the second he turned offshore.

[bat119]

The soundtrack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GzroZxwhJg

He sounds like he was out for a Sunday drive

"if I land do you think they'll give a job as a pilot"?

[3blade]

video on this link...guess the F15s were there pretty quick and didn’t get the go ahead.

Whoever didn’t have the balls to tell them to pull the trigger is an embarrassment and should be severely disciplined. Allowing that nutcase to fly over Seattle is insane.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4382531/g...acoma-airport/

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by 3blade

video on this link...guess the F15s were there pretty quick and didn’t get the go ahead.

Whoever didn’t have the balls to tell them to pull the trigger is an embarrassment and should be severely disciplined. Allowing that nutcase to fly over Seattle is insane.

Have a look at a map, the second that plane was in there air it was over an urban area.

[ctd]

Originally Posted by 3blade

video on this link...guess the F15s were there pretty quick and didn’t get the go ahead.

Whoever didn’t have the balls to tell them to pull the trigger is an embarrassment and should be severely disciplined. Allowing that nutcase to fly over Seattle is insane.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4382531/g...acoma-airport/

I guess shooting a plane down over a populated area is safer then a person maybe crashing one.

I shake my head at some opinions on this site.

[TimeOff]

Originally Posted by bat119

The soundtrack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GzroZxwhJg

He sounds like he was out for a Sunday drive

"if I land do you think they'll give a job as a pilot"?

"Better to burn out than fade away" I guess…

[Skoaltender]

Sad ending to a troubled young mans life. With that being said what was able to accomplish from both a aviation and security standpoint is insane. His act will also stand as a wake up call for airport security and could help prevent a similar occurrence in the future. They should count themselves lucky it was a troubled man who only wanted to harm himself and not a person trying to inflict mass casualties.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by ctd

I guess shooting a plane down over a populated area is safer then a person maybe crashing one.

I shake my head at some opinions on this site.

Read my first post. I said “...the second he turned offshore”

I shake my head at the lack of reading comprehension.

[Bushmaster]

I'm guessing he had some sort of knowledge/training in flying after seeing some of the maneuvers he made.

[bat119]

Originally Posted by Bushmaster

I'm guessing he had some sort of knowledge/training in flying after seeing some of the maneuvers he made.

He said he's played some video games

[CaberTosser]

The flight simulators that are available have ridiculous detail, accurate cockpit instrument layouts and such. Nutty stuff, watching the F15C in pursuit running its afterburner was neat. Only watched a couple of videos so far, I imagine there are many.

[ctd]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Read my first post. I said “...the second he turned offshore”

I shake my head at the lack of reading comprehension.

Originally Posted by 3blade

Whoever didn’t have the balls to tell them to pull the trigger is an embarrassment and should be severely disciplined. Allowing that nutcase to fly over Seattle is insane.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4382531/g...acoma-airport/

Rules of engagement are pretty strict especially involving a domestic plane with unknown intent and passengers. Once the plane was heading away from from a populated area shooting it down is not a priority until it is deemed to be a threat again. Ie heading back towards a populated area.
One just does not shoot down a plane. The aftermath can be worse then original intent.
To many variable at play to say "they didnt have the balls to give the order to shoot" the Pilots would have had clear concise rules of engagements. Thank god they are disciplined to follow them and not a bunch of lazy boy chair commanders who shoot from the hip and deal with the aftermath later.
Ultimately it would rest with the Fighter Pilots to take the shot. As they are the actual eyes watching and living the situation.
At the time i am sure there was lots of confusion as to the origin of why the plane was in the air.

Shooting it down over a populated area is a risk in itself.
The Command team and the Pilots did an excellant job. They responded and they monitered the plane. The outcome however trajic proved that they have the disciplne and abilty to intercept domestic flights reasonably quick.

I did read your first post. Then your second one.
Not sure how they let him fly over Seattle as he already was by the time they got there. But hey lets not let common sense get in the way.

I stand by my comments.
I wonder how reading chomprehension is the issue when the words are written the way they are.
Sorry for not pasting the two posts together and reading between the lines. Then make an interpretation of your posts. To see your intent.

Those Pilots and that Command Team deserve a beer. Not to be chastized for cool calm and collective work. (I bet those pilots were sweating like it was +50degs and 98%humidty stuck in a small steel room with no air circulation.
BRAVO ZULU to them.

[3blade]

I wasn’t chastising the pilots. I will question the rules of engagement when the situation was allowed to continue for an HOUR without intervention. Seconds before the crash they were still trying to direct him to land. How is that responsible?? Pointing him back over land, towards people??? Clearly, from the conversations, he was unhinged. Once that’s known, the only priority should be having the fighters put him down in the water as soon as safely possible. There wasn’t any confusion about who was in the plane, or why the plane was in the air.

If they never had a safe shot, say it in a press release. Otherwise it looks like a lot of sit wait and talk while everyone’s lives were at risk. Pure luck that no one else was killed.

[ctd]

Emergency response teams dont always kick the doors in and shoot people even when they are a direct threat. They try to preserve life. No different then this situation.

Air Traffic Control wanted the guy to land the plane. For a few reasons I would guess. Save a life, save the plane, figure out why he did it.

They did have intervention. Thats why the jets responded. It was realized the guy was not going to crash into a building so they tried to talk him down. Go figure. Not everyone has a kill first ask questions later.

[3blade]

Some nutcase waves a gun around in front of ERT and how do you think that statement holds up. In a house talking crap - yeah they will talk. As soon as that threat goes active, there is a response.

But apparently it’s different to wave a plane around over a city, which could kill a lot more? They *thought* he wasn’t going to kill anyone else. Thought. Would be a small condolence to the public if they were wrong.

Think this is one of those agree to disagree situations. Just glad no one else got hurt

[CaberTosser]

I agree that it should have been brought down if & when opportunity presented itself, that being said: was there a safe opportunity? The guy was astute enough to learn to fly using simulators or whatever, he could well have been convincing enough to have been acting during the conversation with air traffic control and aimed that thing at a packed stadium or a busy mall. Whether or not there was opportunity to down him safely who knows, its not as though the dude was flying it in a straight line, the F-15 pilots would have to line him up where his momentum, direction and prevailing winds would bring him down somewhere unpopulated all while accounting for the delay time for the missile to get to him and his possible changes of direction between the weapons launch and intercept. Thankfully he was the only casualty.


I suspect there will be some new fighter pilot training regimens and rules of engagement discussed and established following this. In normal air combat the aim is to down the opponent ASAP before they down you. In ground attack missions their aim is to hit intended targets while minimising collateral damage. This incident gives a whole new role; down the thing, but not over innocent citizens. Usual intercepts are for people off course or whose comm's are down and the occasional smuggler. This is entirely new.

On the plus side, there's another Q400 order for Bombardier!

[ctd]

The rules of engagement have already been established for these circumstances. The question is did they have a safe shot?
Normally they would use guns on a slow mover like this. The effectiveness of missiles on such a target in the circumstance is not fully known to us.

The other question was could they take the shot with out causing collateral damage.

As ATC had contact with the person and was trying to talk him down. I am sure shooting him down was the last thing they wanted to do.
I am pretty certain the last thing anyone wanted to do was give the order to shoot him down, then the last thing any Fighter Pilot wants to do is pull the trigger on a civilian airplane.

You better hope your never on a airplane that has problems and veers off course. Some Fighter Pilot decides to shoot first.

[roper1]

A bit of a parallel scenario to what happened in St Paul a few years back with the suicidal guy killing the priest then trying suicide by cop. The extra training and awareness of the fighter pilots and their handlers let the perp off himself with no collateral damage. Quick thinking & situational awareness lead to one casualty. No trial, no taxpayer cost, all good.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by 3blade

But apparently it’s different to wave a plane around over a city, which could kill a lot more? They *thought* he wasn’t going to kill anyone else. Thought. Would be a small condolence to the public if they were wrong.

As I said earlier, have a look at a map. What do you think happens when you put a missle or a couple hundred 20mm rounds into that plane? There’s a really good chance you’re gonna drop some flaming plane bits on somebody even if you take the shot when it crosses the coast. Look at things like the airliner crash site in the Ukraine. It’s true that was a much larger plane but still the debris field is HUGE, you would have tens of thousands of people in a similarly sized area.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

snip
Look at things like the airliner crash site in the Ukraine. It’s true that was a much larger plane but still the debris field is HUGE, you would have tens of thousands of people in a similarly sized area.

This cannot be true, we have all seen the photos showing that flight 93 left only a very small crater and little visible debris in Shanksville, and the entire flight 77 aircraft was able to disappear into a much smaller hole in the Pentagon, leaving little debris or crumpled aluminum outside.

All the laws of physics were suspended that day, and could again.

We all just need to be patient, and give Hollywood the opportunity to tell us the truth about what really happened.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

As I said earlier, have a look at a map. What do you think happens when you put a missle or a couple hundred 20mm rounds into that plane? There’s a really good chance you’re gonna drop some flaming plane bits on somebody even if you take the shot when it crosses the coast. Look at things like the airliner crash site in the Ukraine. It’s true that was a much larger plane but still the debris field is HUGE, you would have tens of thousands of people in a similarly sized area.

That plane in the Ukraine was hit at cruising altitude, the geometry would allow for a much wider dispersal from 30,000 ft than from 1,200 - 2,500 ft as seen in the videos. He simply wasn't that high, at least for the ones I've seen posted. Its just physics and geometry, can't argue with proven science. Not saying the opportunity presented itself, simply that the wreckage would be more contained. I will however admit that disintegrating props at maximum throttle could certainly get some spread sideways though, and would come down like humongous katana's.

[Gray Wolf]

Originally Posted by Skoaltender

Sad ending to a troubled young mans life. With that being said what was able to accomplish from both a aviation and security standpoint is insane. His act will also stand as a wake up call for airport security and could help prevent a similar occurrence in the future. They should count themselves lucky it was a troubled man who only wanted to harm himself and not a person trying to inflict mass casualties.

I have to agree.

As many have said, things could have gone much worse. I hope The Powers That Be took some really good notes!

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

That plane in the Ukraine was hit at cruising altitude, the geometry would allow for a much wider dispersal from 30,000 ft than from 1,200 - 2,500 ft as seen in the videos. He simply wasn't that high, at least for the ones I've seen posted. Its just physics and geometry, can't argue with proven science. Not saying the opportunity presented itself, simply that the wreckage would be more contained. I will however admit that disintegrating props at maximum throttle could certainly get some spread sideways though, and would come down like humongous katana's.

There are a bunch of factors in addition to the altitude. The analysis I've seen on the crash in the Ukraine indicate the plane lost structural integrity in the in the air with the resulting 3 pieces continuing to disintegrate on the way down. That would be different in this situation obviously. However I think we can agree though it would be a very risky proposition at best and would likely involve a large impact area.

[ghostguy6]

Ammo and missiles are expensive, they probably knew he would crash at some point so why waste the money on ammo.

[Kim473]

I've always wondered about the security with airport staff. Whats to say this couldn't happen with a 737 or larger plane? Doesn't a A310 almost fly it's self ?What about drug smuggling in your suitcase ? 2 people , different airports and stuffing suitcases.

Your suitcase, prove that you didn't put the drugs in it.

[robson3954]

Lol shoot him down? It’s clear from the recording he didn’t want to be a threat.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by robson3954

Lol shoot him down? It’s clear from the recording he didn’t want to be a threat.

He admitted he was suicidal and he happened to be a scant few KM from a stadium packed for a Pearl Jam concert. Perhaps you should allow for the fact he could have been lying, after all he had just stolen an airliner. Minimizing risk would be the call I made if I were in such a position, the alternative would be far too horrific to live with. Others are more open to gambling.

I suppose though, had he been on course for that stadium he'd have been shot down PDQ.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Read my first post. I said “...the second he turned offshore”

I shake my head at the lack of reading comprehension.

Yup, as long as the Yahoo was out over the populated area wait.....wait.....wait....oh saved the government a few bucks on a sidewinder....hammerhead ended it....

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by robson3954

Lol shoot him down? It’s clear from the recording he didn’t want to be a threat.

As soon as that airplane fired up and started to move he was a threat....