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08-21-2012, 01:28 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Airdrie Alberta
Posts: 2,811
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Johnin. I yield to you sir. No way I am getting my point across to you.
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08-21-2012, 02:11 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 8,315
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A couple of days ago, stats were released on (Canadian) border armed guards...can't recall the number of times they drew their weapons...but a total of 3 discharges were recorded. Two were called "loading/unloading" incidents, and one round was fired to kill an injured moose. Fortunately, no one was injured by the mishandling discharges.
None of the prosies have provided any Canadian stats supporing their position for the "need" so I remain unconvinced.
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08-21-2012, 02:29 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: down by the river
Posts: 11,428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olderangler
In the USA 18% of Police Officers killed were during trafic stops. I would think it's about the same here. So I would guess a Peace Officers job is dangerous. Thats why the Sheriffs are armed.
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Not too mention that the primary cause is getting run over.
Perhaps they should drive tanks in order to defend themselves from oncoming vehicles.
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08-21-2012, 03:53 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeGuy
Not too mention that the primary cause is getting run over.
Perhaps they should drive tanks in order to defend themselves from oncoming vehicles.
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Would still have to get out of the tank to speak to the driver smart azz
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08-21-2012, 04:54 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,397
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Years back I got pulled over for speeding 10 over. But instead of pulling to the side of the road I pulled into a parking lot right off the side of the road. The cop gave me **** for that until I explained that I had his safety in mind. I've seen too many of those in the tv. Wouldn't want it to happen right beside me
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08-21-2012, 05:57 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: down by the river
Posts: 11,428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale_M
Would still have to get out of the tank to speak to the driver smart azz
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Sorry,
Tank with remote control turret for when they leave the tank.
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08-21-2012, 07:38 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 8,315
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My impression ... this thread has run it's course. Significant majority do not want to see PO's armed with lethal force.
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08-21-2012, 07:46 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 260 Rem
My impression ... this thread has run it's course. Significant majority do not want to see PO's armed with lethal force.
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Seems to be 1800+ signatures so I'd hardly say significant majority....
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08-21-2012, 07:46 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beansgunsghandi
I don't want more handguns in our society on a daily basis. Especially not in poorly trained hands... So no, I'm not signing that. I shoot pistols so I'm not at all anti-handgun, just realistic about untrained people wandering around in public with 'em. Not good. Many on here think more armed people in public will equal greater safety. They have obviously never been to countries where it's "normal" to be armed at all times. Those countries are fricking nuts...
Most of the time it's not going to be some "hero" stopping a shooting in a theatre, but some dumb-ass shooting himself in the same..
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You are automatically assuming that every peace officer will not be as competent as you , which is not true.
There are more than a few who shoot hand guns competitively.
I have no problem with anybody carrying a side arm as long as they are properly licensed and have been well instructed.
I have seen far too many people that are totally incompetent at our range that own hand guns, so just the person may be a peace officer does not mean that they will or will not be competent same as a civilian.
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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08-22-2012, 09:19 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canadian Rockies
Posts: 456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
You are automatically assuming that every peace officer will not be as competent as you , which is not true.
There are more than a few who shoot hand guns competitively.
I have no problem with anybody carrying a side arm as long as they are properly licensed and have been well instructed.
I have seen far too many people that are totally incompetent at our range that own hand guns, so just the person may be a peace officer does not mean that they will or will not be competent same as a civilian.
Cat
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I suspect that competitive pistol shooting has very little to do with understanding how to use a handgun in a hostile and complicated situation, or even judging what constitutes the same. A weekend "Wannabe Tactical Guy" course is probably not enough either. Police in Alberta get a lot of training; if peace officers received the same training hours in law enforcement then I"d be all for them being armed.
It's always interesting to see how people who want one thing (the privilege to carry handguns more) will embrace really bad ideas (arming untrained people).
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08-22-2012, 09:58 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: East Central Alberta
Posts: 8,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rackmastr
Seems to be 1800+ signatures so I'd hardly say significant majority....
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Rack- my comment referenced my impression of the thread only. Note: A petition unsupported by verifiable names with adresses is likely to hold little sway.
Last edited by 260 Rem; 08-22-2012 at 10:04 AM.
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08-25-2012, 10:24 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 31
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Any person in law enforcement who puts on a uniform knows there are inherent risks involved.
If someone wants to do harm to an officer they are going to try. Verbal direction goes only so far and there are use of force models which address options the officer has.
It is better to have the proper tools and to never use them, than to need a tool and never have it.
I would like to think the average citizen is law abiding and some may not know the local rules. Municipalities have different rules it seems, depending on which town you live in.
I think that many people are educated before receiving fines. At the same time a person shouldn't have to be told 4 times the same thing before receiving fines.
The best tool any officer has is their training, spidey senses and wits.
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08-25-2012, 06:22 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 38,621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beansgunsghandi
I suspect that competitive pistol shooting has very little to do with understanding how to use a handgun in a hostile and complicated situation, or even judging what constitutes the same. A weekend "Wannabe Tactical Guy" course is probably not enough either. Police in Alberta get a lot of training; if peace officers received the same training hours in law enforcement then I"d be all for them being armed.
It's always interesting to see how people who want one thing (the privilege to carry handguns more) will embrace really bad ideas (arming untrained people).
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Now you are assuming that they will be given guns and not trained.
Competitive IPSC and IDPA pistol shooting are very close to combat training with a few differences, but the shootign part is pretty much the same.
The other part is training that nobody but enforcement officers would get, and there is no reason to think that peace officers would be issued guns without proper training.
Cat
__________________
Anytime I figure I've got this long range thing figured out, I just strap into the sling and irons and remind myself that I don't!
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08-25-2012, 09:05 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary, Ab
Posts: 2,835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
Now you are assuming that they will be given guns and not trained.
Competitive IPSC and IDPA pistol shooting are very close to combat training with a few differences, but the shootign part is pretty much the same.
The other part is training that nobody but enforcement officers would get, and there is no reason to think that peace officers would be issued guns without proper training.
Cat
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Exactly.
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08-26-2012, 10:00 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 854
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Dont agree and won't sign. 1800 signatures in a province of over 3 million is hardly a ringing endorsement.
If they want a sidearm they can join the police force and if they need one call for police backup.
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08-26-2012, 11:37 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 270WIN
I might consider signing but only only after our government tells me it's OK for me to enjoy shooting a handgun in all the places where I can shoot rifles and shotguns. Hell I can't even shoot a pistol on my own land.
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Couldn't agree more my good sir.
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08-26-2012, 12:19 PM
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 112
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If a guy does some checking there is a lot of peace officers in our county that are not 20yr olds right from sol gen there is alot of ex transport cops and F W I believe the guy that was killed was ex RCMP by the way we do arm brinks and G4S by the way they are $17 hr people I forgot Tim hortons pays more, these guys are out dealing with more then dog catching they try and keep our roads alittle safer the diff between a peace officer and a sheriff is only a few weeks in training and that difference in training is not all fire arm training, the thing is lots of municipalities will not arm there peace officers because of liability but all the power to them i have seen what they do and have taken training with them give them the option to protect them selves
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08-26-2012, 12:35 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 5,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jts1
..., the only ones that think we need to start arming these guys is themselves. There is different levels of law and bylaw enforcement for a reason. Each in turn helps out the other. Is there a risk with the job? Of course there is. Is it tragic for co workers, friends and family when the worst happens? Beyond question yes.
But is arming them the answer? I think not. They are under trained and poorly screened. .....If this is just a matter of a few tragic incidences and now the group feels they need firearms. That is a long ways to reach.
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x2
There's a better case to make for arming cabbies if it's the level of danger that drives this. Not that I would have a problem with that, given a background check and some training.
If the issue is adopting a CCW scheme for civilians, too, fine. But if we are not allowed to be armed under any circumstances, I just don't see that peace officers are in all that much danger or that their lives are worth more than mine.
__________________
"If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'" - J.W.
God made man. Sam Colt made them equal.
Make Alberta a better place. Have your liberal spayed or neutered.
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08-26-2012, 12:57 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 12,558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohninAB
The Peace Offier designation covers more than just those hired as peace officers by the counties. So do not paint all "Peace Officers" with the same brush.
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Yet you want to arm them all?
Seems like a pretty big brush you're wielding there yourself.
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08-27-2012, 10:36 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 31
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As well do not exclude the peace officers who are retired and ex military. I would think these people are more than capable of using firearms safely. That would go for all the ex police in the province.
Shame on those with ignorant / arrogant / narrow minded attitudes.
So you got a ticket for parking the wrong way? Good. If you did that on your drivers test, you wouldn't have got a drivers license. Why the big pout? Suck it up and admit you were wrong.
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08-27-2012, 10:54 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 271
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I have several buddies who are peace officers.
I wouldn't consider giving them guns.. I cant even trust them with a slingshot!
(one shot himself in the foot, The other one shot the guy who shot himself in the foot.)
__________________
“We are measured more as hunters by the things we choose not to shoot, than by those that we do.”
Keith McCafferty
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08-27-2012, 10:55 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 6,672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pesky672
Yet you want to arm them all?
Seems like a pretty big brush you're wielding there yourself.
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Einstein, where did I say anything about arming Peace Officers? Just pointed out to the internet warriors here, that Peace Officer is a designation. As in a forest officer when doing their job is classified as a Peace Officer which carries certain conotations in law. Their job title is forest officer not Peace Officer. Get it??????????????? End of story.
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08-27-2012, 05:59 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 447
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I, for one, can't imagine why the "I wan't to carry my glock when I go grocery shopping" crowd isn't all over this. Once you start normalising the side arms and people see them all over and start seeing that WW3 doesn't happen in the hospital lobby, you'd think that people would start figuring that they are not tools of evil and that they are just tools.
This is like when you see the road hunter vs bow vs water vs field hunters arguments. It only serves to keep us fighting each other and not working towards more hunting freedoms and rights.
Wake up and smell the division!!!
ALL of these arguments were used against the border officers getting armed. Now that there are thousands of armed officers, there hasn't been a rise in complaints over all those "power tripping" officers. What HAS actually happened is in over 150 incidents officers were able to pull their firearms as a tactical consideration when threatened with the possibility of death or grievous harm, and were able to use their training and diffuse those situations without firing a shot. These are incidents were, most likely, there was no chance to have police called before hand, as normally the border guards are told to not enter high risk situations. They are only to respond properly to day to day instances. Much like responding to a weirdo and his dog complaint. Or pulling someone over for speeding.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08/19/border/
I would say that this are some exemplary results and if the Alberta Government tests and trains their Peace Officers to the same, or similar, standards, the Officers and the rest of Alberta, will benefit.
Signed, and a call into the Sol Gen as well.
__________________
VVV
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08-29-2012, 09:24 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbadjoe108
I, for one, can't imagine why the "I wan't to carry my glock when I go grocery shopping" crowd isn't all over this. Once you start normalising the side arms and people see them all over and start seeing that WW3 doesn't happen in the hospital lobby, you'd think that people would start figuring that they are not tools of evil and that they are just tools.
This is like when you see the road hunter vs bow vs water vs field hunters arguments. It only serves to keep us fighting each other and not working towards more hunting freedoms and rights.
Wake up and smell the division!!!
ALL of these arguments were used against the border officers getting armed. Now that there are thousands of armed officers, there hasn't been a rise in complaints over all those "power tripping" officers. What HAS actually happened is in over 150 incidents officers were able to pull their firearms as a tactical consideration when threatened with the possibility of death or grievous harm, and were able to use their training and diffuse those situations without firing a shot. These are incidents were, most likely, there was no chance to have police called before hand, as normally the border guards are told to not enter high risk situations. They are only to respond properly to day to day instances. Much like responding to a weirdo and his dog complaint. Or pulling someone over for speeding.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/08/19/border/
I would say that this are some exemplary results and if the Alberta Government tests and trains their Peace Officers to the same, or similar, standards, the Officers and the rest of Alberta, will benefit.
Signed, and a call into the Sol Gen as well.
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You sir are obviously smart enough to see the issue at hand. It is a shame others are not so smart. I completely agree. Signed!
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