Alberta Goat Draw

[300magman]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

Sorry guy's, increasing the cost to apply just prices some out of being able to hunt. Maybe if one is drawn and doesn't purchase a tag they shouldn't be allowed to participate in the next years Draw?

I don’t buy that. First off with everything a person spends on hunting, increasing draw costs is insignificant. The lions share of a large application fee (as in many draws in the US) is refunded. Honestly, I have friends in the US that have lines of credit to cover application costs, pay the interest for a couple months then pay it off when the price is refunded. The main point is that if it is a priority to you, you will make it happen. People are priced out of everything everyday.....id love to go on a vacation to Australia, but guess what I can’t afford it and it’s not high enough of a priority in my life at this point to make it happen. Kids are priced out of playing organized sports, people can’t afford to camp in national parks with the gate fee and site fee, people can’t afford to get pilots licenses for private planes, etc, etc, etc. Why don’t we make all those things affordable for the lowest common denominator as well? People have to choose what they put priority on everyday. I’m not saying it should cost $2000 a year every year to apply, but fronting the money that is refundable if not drawn will make pick and choose what is important to them, and overall they will stand a better chance of one day doing that dream hunt.

[300magman]

Originally Posted by leeelmer

My biggest problem with this draw is the timeline.
Its a once in a lifetime draw and you have a month to plan and get time off work and get out there.
I have horses and everything else to do the hunt, but how would you have time to scout and get out there?
Why don't they draw for this in January and then you have a 6 months or more time to plan?

I think it has to do with population surveys if I remember correctly. The data isn’t available until later in summer. Not sure if the timeline on obtaining that data could be increased though.

I definitely agree that what you said is another issue for sure.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by 300magman

In what way is that elitist? It was just stated that someone knows at least 2 of those very to hard draw tags burnt because they were drawn by people with no capacity or knowledge of how to do the hunt. I put in for severa draws each year south of the border, and am paying severa thousand a year to do so (most of which is refundable). I’ll tell you what, I wouldn’t be putting in for something I had no idea how to hunt or little desire to hunt, and you can bet your butt I’ll be doing those hunts if I’m drawn. Paying $4 is nothing, there is absolutely no deterrent to anyone to not apply, who cares about the $4. When we have the hardest to draw tag in Alberta being burnt by people who drew it with no consideration or knowledge of the hunt and didn’t do based on that, we have a serious problem. And the once in a lifetime factor is of no real value as not enough get taken out of the pool any given year to whiddle down those numbers of people that have no clue what their doing. I can guarantee you almost anyone with the knowledge and desire to hunt goats here would happily front a thousand or couple thousand bucks each for the chance at the tag year after year, that’s a hell of a lot cheaper than any other goat hunt you will realistically get to do because with draw stats being what they are here, 99.9% of us won’t be hunting them in Alberta. Eventually, with the growing number of hunters in aberta, something has to change or it won’t be long before any decent tag is once in a lifetime, whether that’s mandated or it takes a P50 to get drawn.

Have hockey registration fees increased over the last decade? What about school fees? Groceries? Gas? Things change, and hunting opportunity in Alberta has also changed, but a few cents higher draw application fee, or couple buck increas in tag costs does nothing. Like it or not, there’s only 2 ways for things to go here.......status quo which people here seem to advocate and we continue to watch the decline of opportunities at any decent draw or we look to areas with higher hunting populations and see what models work to control the amount of people applying

You just reinforced my opinion that you are elitist. You seem to think anyone that holds the tag other than you is the enemy. If I put in for a draw and get drawn, what business is it of your how I use the tag. Get over yourself and your entitlement.

[300magman]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

You just reinforced my opinion that you are elitist. You seem to think anyone that holds the tag other than you is the enemy. If I put in for a draw and get drawn, what business is it of your how I use the tag. Get over yourself and your entitlement.

lol, ok. Look at my avatar, I have my goat and don’t care if I ever draw this tag. When the demand keeps increasing for something but the supply stays steady or decreases, what happens in the real world? The price goes up. Please tell me one thing that that doesn’t hold true for. Do we have more hunters in Alberta with a steady amount of tags (more or less)? That’s where we’re at with hunting. You can choose to live with your head in the sand, or open your eyes and see that something has to change.

And how about responding to even one point I made other than to say your an elitist. Why is it ok for fees for everything else to increase but not hunting?

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by DJS

How would this have an effect on the issue? I think it would be safe to assume that the individual who applys for a tag but doesn't purchase it when drawn wouldn't care much about whether or not he was allowed to apply the following year. JMO

For one, it would be one less person applying the following year.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

You just reinforced my opinion that you are elitist. You seem to think anyone that holds the tag other than you is the enemy. If I put in for a draw and get drawn, what business is it of your how I use the tag. Get over yourself and your entitlement.

So your ok with the guy who puts in for a draw, gets drawn and never uses the tag?

[dmcbride]

Lets just raise the costs of hunting and fishing so only the rich can participate.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by DJS

So your ok with the guy who puts in for a draw, gets drawn and never uses the tag?

Why wouldn't I be, lots of guys draw all sorts of tags they use for a day or half a day or not at all. None of my business what someone does with a tag they legally drew.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

For one, it would be one less person applying the following year.

With only 6 tags given out for over 12,000 applicants that's not increasing anyones chance of getting drawn. Not trying to be disrespectful but that doesn't have any effect at all on you, me or the next guy getting drawn or not. And in my opinion it sure won't cause any to stop putting in for draws they have no intentions of using.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

Lets just raise the costs of hunting and fishing so only the rich can participate.

Sadly these guys think this is the answer, until they can no longer afford it. Then they'll whine and moan how hunting has became a very rich man's game.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

Why wouldn't I be, lots of guys draw all sorts of tags they use for a day or half a day or not at all. None of my business what someone does with a tag they legally drew.

Well that's your opinion and your by all means entitled to it. But I personally do have a problem with people putting in for draws they have absolutely no intention what so ever of using. And so do a pile of others. By raising the price of certain draws a bit is in no way making us that would pay the extra, elitists. It's just an idea of how to weed out those with poor intentions.

[Sledhead71]

There is nothing wrong with the application system other than no restrictions on the amount of draw codes you can enter at a nominal costs which goes to the service provider, not the managing of said resource.

Allowing the privilege of hunting your home province at the expense of the less fortunate is wrong in my opinion... And really if someone burns a tag, well it is theirs to do with the permit as they see fit.. Many including myself don't close many tags on the species issued, it's my choice and I feel ok about the decision...

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by DJS

Well that's your opinion and your by all means entitled to it. But I personally do have a problem with people putting in for draws they have absolutely no intention what so ever of using. And so do a pile of others. By raising the price of certain draws a bit is in no way making us that would pay the extra, elitists. It's just an idea of how to weed out those with poor intentions.

It also weeds out a lot of true sportsman, which it seems is the intention of the guys that want to see an increase. The sweet spot would be a price that you can absorb and others cannot. That would be great right?

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

There is nothing wrong with the application system other than no restrictions on the amount of draw codes you can enter at a nominal costs which goes to the service provider, not the managing of said resource.

Allowing the privilege of hunting your home province at the expense of the less fortunate is wrong in my opinion... And really if someone burns a tag, well it is theirs to do with the permit as they see fit.. Many including myself don't close many tags on the species issued, it's my choice and I feel ok about the decision...

Not closing a tag compared to getting drawn for a tag with no intentions of ever using it are two completely different things.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

It also weeds out a lot of true sportsman, which it seems is the intention of the guys that want to see an increase. The sweet spot would be a price that you can absorb and others cannot. That would be great right?

No not at all. If you saw my pay cheque every two weeks you'd know that to be true lol. All we're saying is that at $4 an application there is no incentive to really take the draw seriously. Just raise it enough so that people are having to really think about what theyre applying for or consider if it's something that is going to be realistic for them to pursue if drawn.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by DJS

No not at all. If you saw my pay cheque every two weeks you'd know that to be true lol. All we're saying is that at $4 an application there is no incentive to really take the draw seriously. Just raise it enough so that people are having to really think about what theyre applying for or consider if it's something that is going to be realistic for them to pursue if drawn.

Exactly!

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

It also weeds out a lot of true sportsman, which it seems is the intention of the guys that want to see an increase. The sweet spot would be a price that you can absorb and others cannot. That would be great right?

That’s not what anyone is saying, give it a rest.

What’s wrong with paying for the tag up front when entering draws and getting most of the money back if not drawn? That would certainly make people think whether they really wanted that tag or not that year. And that is certainly not pricing anyone out is it.

If you can’t afford the tag maybe you shouldn’t be entering the draw...

[1bowhunter12]

having draw prices go up 1or 2% for inflation is a whole lot different than dishing out 2000 when drawn...so a seasoned very capable hunter that doesn’t have thousands of dollars available isn’t able to fulfill a lifelong dream like everybody else ?? I understand your frustration.. that could be applied to all draws ... but give your head a shake ..

[urcayuse]

To the OP. I guess if you’ve read through this entire thread I bet the answer to your original question is crystal clear! Lol

[DJS]

Originally Posted by 1bowhunter12

having draw prices go up 1or 2% for inflation is a whole lot different than dishing out 2000 when drawn...so a seasoned very capable hunter that doesn’t have thousands of dollars available isn’t able to fulfill a lifelong dream like everybody else ?? I understand your frustration.. that could be applied to all draws ... but give your head a shake ..

There was only one suggestion here to having the fee upped to $2000 and I doubt even that suggestion was very serious. It's the idea behind the dollar amount. Yes $2000 is extreme. But let's say it was $50? Do you think that people would start taking it a little more seriously? I think so.

The "very capable hunter with the life long dream to hunt goats" isn't the problem that we're talking about but...that guy I'm sure would gladly cough up $50 to put in for the draw every year along with everyone else serious about it. The guys not serious about it, probably not gonna waste that kind of money.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

You just reinforced my opinion that you are elitist. You seem to think anyone that holds the tag other than you is the enemy. If I put in for a draw and get drawn, what business is it of your how I use the tag. Get over yourself and your entitlement.

This thread is on the goat draw, not doe tags, ect....99% of hunters will never see the tag in their lifetime. If you have no intention of using it when putting in for the draw, you are taking an opportunity from someone that will. This tag doesn't come along every 2, 3, 5.....years

[JoshT]

Originally Posted by DJS

There was only one suggestion here to having the fee upped to $2000 and I doubt even that suggestion was very serious. It's the idea behind the dollar amount. Yes $2000 is extreme. But let's say it was $50? Do you think that people would start taking it a little more seriously? I think so.

The "very capable hunter with the life long dream to hunt goats" isn't the problem that we're talking about but...that guy I'm sure would gladly cough up $50 to put in for the draw every year along with everyone else serious about it. The guys not serious about it, probably not gonna waste that kind of money.

^Agreed. $2000 was probably a bit of an exaggeration and would prevent me from applying, but I definitely would be ok with paying for the cost of the tag up-front. Even if it was just the OIAL tags to start. I'm not rich by any means but you can easily make sacrifices to afford an increase in tag prices.

[LCCFisherman]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

This thread is on the goat draw, not doe tags, ect....99% of hunters will never see the tag in their lifetime. If you have no intention of using it when putting in for the draw, you are taking an opportunity from someone that will. This tag doesn't come along every 2, 3, 5.....years

Bang on... Lottery Draws should be raised to $50.

[mattthegorby]

My (rookie) understanding is that the biologists look at the number of animals they feel should be harvested and then issue the number of tags required to hit those goals - with consideration given to a certain percentage of tags that will not be filled. I would assume that this percentage is calculated from past years success rates for given hunts. If this is the case, then over the years people not filling tags would not negatively affect the chances of a knowledgeable hunter getting a tag.

So... wouldn't more unfilled tags = more tags issued in later years?

Unless I am missing something (which well may be the case), over time, all the unused tag holders are doing is increasing the overall revenue.

Matt

[DJS]

Originally Posted by mattthegorby

My (rookie) understanding is that the biologists look at the number of animals they feel should be harvested and then issue the number of tags required to hit those goals - with consideration given to a certain percentage of tags that will not be filled. I would assume that this percentage is calculated from past years success rates for given hunts. If this is the case, then over the years people not filling tags would not negatively affect the chances of a knowledgeable hunter getting a tag.

So... wouldn't more unfilled tags = more tags issued in later years?

Unless I am missing something (which well may be the case), over time, all the unused tag holders are doing is increasing the overall revenue.

Matt

They're taking away opportunities from those who really wish to partake in this hunt.

[mattthegorby]

This may be true, but it all depends on what variables they use to determine the number of tags.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by mattthegorby

My (rookie) understanding is that the biologists look at the number of animals they feel should be harvested and then issue the number of tags required to hit those goals - with consideration given to a certain percentage of tags that will not be filled. I would assume that this percentage is calculated from past years success rates for given hunts. If this is the case, then over the years people not filling tags would not negatively affect the chances of a knowledgeable hunter getting a tag.

So... wouldn't more unfilled tags = more tags issued in later years?

Unless I am missing something (which well may be the case), over time, all the unused tag holders are doing is increasing the overall revenue.

Matt

Originally Posted by mattthegorby

This may be true, but it all depends on what variables they use to determine the number of tags.

Haven't much paid attention to the goat draws for a while as chances are I'll never get it, but believe this is how it works (correct me if I'm wrong)
I believe each "area" has one tag issued. 7 areas in total if I remember right. Only time a tag is suspended for a year in an area is if a nanny is shot the previous year.

[mattthegorby]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Haven't much paid attention to the goat draws for a while as chances are I'll never get it, but believe this is how it works (correct me if I'm wrong)
I believe each "area" has one tag issued. 7 areas in total if I remember right. Only time a tag is suspended for a year in an area is if a nanny is shot the previous year.

Thanks for explaining. That makes sense why in this instance guys are concerned with unused tags.

[West O'5]

At the risk of sounding like an "Elitist",I most definitely would be in favour of forcing hunters to pay for Undersubscribed tags immediately upon reservation in August.....or to put it another way,abolish this "tag reserving" nonsense.....you want it/you buy it right now/have your credit card handy/end of story.Too many Yahoos in a mad scramble to snap up any and all available moose tags,and I'd wager that an unacceptably high percentage of those "reserved" tags go unpurchased once they realize the logistics of hunting in the WMU that they were successful in reserving a tag for,these clowns are only taking away hunting opportunities from others that would actually buy the tag and go on the hunt.
I would think this policy would be a pretty easy sell to the provincial powers that be,they are losing tens of thousands of $$ in licence revenue under the current system.
Win/win for both parties.....the province collects more revenue,and hunters that would ACTUALLY BUY THE TAGS wouldn't be seeing all of the Undersubscribed Moose tags snapped up in the first 10 minutes of Undersubscribed Day in August by a bunch of tards that aren't even gonna use nor buy the tag.

[dustinjoels]

Raise the tag price from $59.95 to $100.

Make the draw a few months earlier. If what was said above in regards to each zone getting one tag unless a nanny was shot the year previous holds true, the timeline shouldn't be an issue since biologists will know this info from the previous season.

Any tag that hasn't been purchased by a set date, say June 1st for example is redrawn.

Should make everyone happy. And by everyone I mean no one lol.