Now that servers make 15$ what has changed.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by sns2

What I find interesting is that a group of members loudly and consistently make it seem that there is a single way to govern that is inherently right, and anyone who takes a position not aligned to them is stupid, naive, and not of equal value.

X2, but leftys have always been that way.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by sns2

What I find interesting is that a group of members loudly and consistently make it seem that there is a single way to govern that is inherently right, and anyone who takes a position not aligned to them is stupid, naive, and not of equal value.

Yeah, I don't get this. These people (the extremists on any side) seem to think that with just a little persuasion (or a lot) the other 'side' can't help but see their viewpoint, have an epiphany and change their thinking.
They don't realize that other guy TRULY believes he is right and that you, if you just opened your eyes a little would 'see the light'.
It's why the world is in the mess it is now...it isn't going to change and why after prostitution, soldiering is the oldest profession.
There's always two sides to a viewpoint and as usual, somewhere close to the middle is the best for all concerned.

[sns2]

Guys, this has nothing to do with your views be they left, right, or somewhere in between. It's about attitude. This is an outdoors forum, not a political boxing ring, and rudeness does not have to be attempts to avert the swearing filter with insults.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

[Roderek]

Servers in Alberta or Canada do not make minimum wage, and there should be a different minimum wage for servers. In Canada it is customary tip your server, so that income should count as part of your wage.

lets say a server has a 5 table section average of 3 guests per table.
Each table turns every hour, with an average guest check of $25.00.
$25.00 x 15 people=$375.00
average tip out of 12%= $45.00
server has to tip out 5% of total ring out to support staff 375x5%=18.75
Total tips $45.00 less tip out $18.75= $26.25/hour in tips.

Now you also need to take into account that a server isn't always going to have a full section, and also is most likely only going to be working 15-30 hours per week.

It also takes a lot more skill then most people think to be a good server. To be fun a lively with one table and quiet and discreet with another one.
To be on top of everyone's needs and wants, and to always do it with a smile on your face.

The bottom line is no matter what the minimum wage is in Canada it is customary to tip your server and you should always leave some sort of tip. 10-20% is standard, anything under 3 - 5% likely means your server had to pay to serve you, as that is what most places have there tip out set to for kitchen and support staff. No matter how much money the servers make they have to pay that percentage on the total ring out amount.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by sns2

What I find interesting is that a group of members loudly and consistently make it seem that there is a single way to govern that is inherently right, and anyone who takes a position not aligned to them is stupid, naive, and not of equal value.

This, I agree with. And it gets tiring.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

This, I agree with. And it gets tiring.

True. There are a few "regulars" with single minded agendas that can be counted on for posts of a critical nature. Mostly dog whistle topics summoning the pack with the hope that perhaps a "victim" will wander into the discussion to provide fodder for a pile on. Punting only six would make a huge difference.

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

And if you think that you know anything about the restaurant business...you're delusional.

Just curious.....Are you a chef and own your own business?

[Unregistered user]

Servers pay some of the better restaurants in San Francisco to work there, the tips are that good, the restaurants and hotels are then very choosy on who they hire. Don't need o gunmint interference.

[riden]

Originally Posted by sns2

Guys, this has nothing to do with your views be they left, right, or somewhere in between. It's about attitude. This is an outdoors forum, not a political boxing ring, and that rudeness does not have to be attempts to avert the swearing filter with insults.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

You're right.

This place feels a little like Jr High all too often.

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Good thing the servers are not forced to work as a server. There are more profitable careers anyways.

Not sure what you are trying to say. Is it that servers should expect to be treated poorly because it is an unworthy career. Or that only the uneducated should be a server.either way i think your remarks are in poor taste. I know some very fine intelligent people who are servers.


Mack

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by riden

You're right.

This place feels a little like Jr High all too often.

Actually I remember Jr High as being a more pleasant place where different ideas were often explored without letting blood. This political fighting seems to be an older set in our ways childishness. I have noticed that even the supposed non political outdoor threads often turn rude. That's sad. The times that I resort to rudeness very seldom makes me feel better.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by riden

You're right.

This place feels a little like Jr High all too often.

Kindergarten. Or grade 8 filled with 17 year olds that 'didn't make the cut' a few too many times.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

True. There are a few "regulars" with single minded agendas that can be counted on for posts of a critical nature. Mostly dog whistle topics summoning the pack with the hope that perhaps a "victim" will wander into the discussion to provide fodder for a pile on. Punting only six would make a huge difference.

Don't be so hard on yourself. Frankly, I enjoy seeing everyone express their opinions, even the six people you mention that like to pick on business owners trying to make ends meet. I'd hate to see them get punted just because they have a left wing bias. They make the forum much more interesting than if AO was comprised solely of people that believed in freedom and liberty.

Diversity of opinion is a great thing, even if the debate gets a little heated at times.

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Don't be so hard on yourself. Frankly, I enjoy seeing everyone express their opinions, even the six people you mention that like to pick on business owners trying to make ends meet. I'd hate to see them get punted just because they have a left wing bias. They make the forum much more interesting than if AO was comprised solely of people that believed in freedom and liberty.

Diversity of opinion is a great thing, even if the debate gets a little heated at times.

Agreed opinions are like butts everyone has one just some of them stink...



Mack

[Coyotebutcher]

Originally Posted by dangerranger5143

Why wouldn't you tip? That's always being customary in the food service industry where you are waited on. If you have good service from a server you should tip them for doing a good job and making sure your experience at the resteraunt was an enjoyable one. If the experience is poor, it is not always the servers fault. Just because the food was not good doesn't mean you shouldn't tip. The server is not back there cooking your food. He or she only delivers the order to the kitchen and they prepare it. I know a lot of people base their tips off of food quality. That should not be the case.

The fiancé put herself through college and is still currently a server. What you may not realize is that if there is no tip they have to pay out the kitchen and the bar a certain percentage out of their pocket. By not tipping you are dropping their hourly wage down to pay out the others that don't recieve the tips for the work they perform. On average it's about 7-10% per bill. On a $50 bill it could be up to $5. Doesn't seem like much but when you go from $13 an hour down to $8 an hour that hurts.

After seeing her come home from long 10-12 hours days and being dead tired I always tip my server. To anyone who doesn't tip I would love to see you do what they do. 5-10 tables at all times, and keeping them all happy and making sure their experience is enjoyable. I couldn't do it and I'd love to see others try.

Just my 2 cents.

DR

Oh my gosh. 5-10 tables you say? That sounds impossible. I'd love to see them pack 3/4" plywood sheets, cam locks, and rebar all day. Bent over nailing together walls for houses, then standing them. I tip for good service, but don't act like serving is some ungodly difficult job. If they want to walk around all day and cater to people all day and make good money, maybe they should go to school to be a nurse? I've dealt with maybe 1 in 5 servers that are worthy of a tip, but society has made it so that I have to feel guilty if I don't tip every half assed person that brings me food. All minimum wage jobs are stepping stones in life. They are not meant to live off of perminantly. Better yourself and life will be better. And to the people who whine because they were injured at work, get your certification as a safety officer and get hired by any one of the hundreds of companies that employ them, why settle for minimum wage ever?

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by Coyotebutcher

Oh my gosh. 5-10 tables you say? That sounds impossible. I'd love to see them pack 3/4" plywood sheets, cam locks, and rebar all day. Bent over nailing together walls for houses, then standing them. I tip for good service, but don't act like serving is some ungodly difficult job. If they want to walk around all day and cater to people all day and make good money, maybe they should go to school to be a nurse? I've dealt with maybe 1 in 5 servers that are worthy of a tip, but society has made it so that I have to feel guilty if I don't tip every half assed person that brings me food. All minimum wage jobs are stepping stones in life. They are not meant to live off of perminantly. Better yourself and life will be better. And to the people who whine because they were injured at work, get your certification as a safety officer and get hired by any one of the hundreds of companies that employ them, why settle for minimum wage ever?

Wow someone needs a snickers bar......

Mack

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by Coyotebutcher

Oh my gosh. 5-10 tables you say? That sounds impossible. I'd love to see them pack 3/4" plywood sheets, cam locks, and rebar all day. Bent over nailing together walls for houses, then standing them. I tip for good service, but don't act like serving is some ungodly difficult job. If they want to walk around all day and cater to people all day and make good money, maybe they should go to school to be a nurse? I've dealt with maybe 1 in 5 servers that are worthy of a tip, but society has made it so that I have to feel guilty if I don't tip every half assed person that brings me food. All minimum wage jobs are stepping stones in life. They are not meant to live off of perminantly. Better yourself and life will be better. And to the people who whine because they were injured at work, get your certification as a safety officer and get hired by any one of the hundreds of companies that employ them, why settle for minimum wage ever?

And of course the guy who's spent years in University to become a doctor (or some such) thinks it ridiculous that you get highly paid to do nothing but nail together a few boards...something any idiot can do.
There's always someone higher up the food chain who thinks you're overpaid for what you do.
But crap travels downhill, right...so I guess it's your right to crap on the servers.

[does it ALL outdoors]

Originally Posted by Dean2

So Shane, you asked what my version of good service is, what is the level I think worth tipping for, here is a short form of it.

My definition of good service;
Hostess seats you, gives you menu and tells you the name of your Server.

Table is set, clean and chairs are clean also. Rug and floor are free of dropped food.

Server shows up with name tag, water and introduces themselves. The server is well dressed in clean clothes, bathed daily, hair combed with clean hands and no dirt under their nails. (Watch your servers closely and you will be amazed how many have dirty hands and unwashed clothes). Takes drink orders if you are ready.

Comes back when you have closed the menus to take orders – does not keep popping back while menus are ignored and customers are talking, or menu is still open being reviewed, to see if you are ready to order.

NEVER interrupts a customer conversation. Waits until addressed to speak.

Serves from the right and removes from the left. Does not reach across a customer to serve the person beside them unless people are seated in a booth. Then excuses themselves for reaching across in front of customer.

Ensures appropriate condiments, salt, pepper, hot sauce, ketchup etc and utensils are on the table prior to the meal arriving.

NEVER handles the silver ware by the food end, nor glasses and cups by the rim or interior. Ensures glasses and silver ware are clean before they go on the table.

Remembers who ordered what and serves it to the right person.

Returns within a couple of minutes to check on food, additional requirements. Notices if steaks are not as ordered or other deficiencies in the meal. Proactively deals with issues in a friendly and helpful way. Does not serve meals that are clearly wrong before they even leave the kitchen.

Keeps a close eye on the table to replenish water, coffee or check for more drinks. I don’t need to flag them to get another beer or a coffee refill.

Is there when you need them without you having to flag them and virtually invisible to the table while they are serving. However, they are actively looking around so they are easy to catch their eye if required.

Clears the dishes when diners are done but does not rush them.

Provides desert and after dinner drinks menu.

Does not provide the bill until it is requested or it is obvious guests are ready to leave.

They are NOT part of the dining experience, only a facilitator.

Most wait staff fall far short of meeting even half the level of good service. Taking the order, dropping the plate in front of me and collecting the bill is not good service, it is just barely doing your job.

That was the short form?

That's quite an extensive list of expectations from someone that makes MINIMUM wage.

If service is bad I tip a token gesture knowing they likely have to tip out the kitchen staff and I'm not a huge cheapskate like that.

For good service, I tip well.

If I can't afford to eat out, I won't.

But I won't look for any excuse possible to not tip just because I'm cheap, if I was that cheap I wouldn't be eating out in the first place

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

True. There are a few "regulars" with single minded agendas that can be counted on for posts of a critical nature. Mostly dog whistle topics summoning the pack with the hope that perhaps a "victim" will wander into the discussion to provide fodder for a pile on. Punting only six would make a huge difference.

Looks like your getting your wish......and then there were 5.......

[Talking moose]

I always tip. Unless something was down right terrible.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Dean2

So Shane, you asked what my version of good service is, what is the level I think worth tipping for, here is a short form of it.

My definition of good service;
Hostess seats you, gives you menu and tells you the name of your Server.

Table is set, clean and chairs are clean also. Rug and floor are free of dropped food.

Server shows up with name tag, water and introduces themselves. The server is well dressed in clean clothes, bathed daily, hair combed with clean hands and no dirt under their nails. (Watch your servers closely and you will be amazed how many have dirty hands and unwashed clothes). Takes drink orders if you are ready.

Comes back when you have closed the menus to take orders – does not keep popping back while menus are ignored and customers are talking, or menu is still open being reviewed, to see if you are ready to order.

NEVER interrupts a customer conversation. Waits until addressed to speak.

Serves from the right and removes from the left. Does not reach across a customer to serve the person beside them unless people are seated in a booth. Then excuses themselves for reaching across in front of customer.

Ensures appropriate condiments, salt, pepper, hot sauce, ketchup etc and utensils are on the table prior to the meal arriving.

NEVER handles the silver ware by the food end, nor glasses and cups by the rim or interior. Ensures glasses and silver ware are clean before they go on the table.

Remembers who ordered what and serves it to the right person.

Returns within a couple of minutes to check on food, additional requirements. Notices if steaks are not as ordered or other deficiencies in the meal. Proactively deals with issues in a friendly and helpful way. Does not serve meals that are clearly wrong before they even leave the kitchen.

Keeps a close eye on the table to replenish water, coffee or check for more drinks. I don’t need to flag them to get another beer or a coffee refill.

Is there when you need them without you having to flag them and virtually invisible to the table while they are serving. However, they are actively looking around so they are easy to catch their eye if required.

Clears the dishes when diners are done but does not rush them.

Provides desert and after dinner drinks menu.

Does not provide the bill until it is requested or it is obvious guests are ready to leave.

They are NOT part of the dining experience, only a facilitator.

Most wait staff fall far short of meeting even half the level of good service. Taking the order, dropping the plate in front of me and collecting the bill is not good service, it is just barely doing your job.

Dean, a person with the skill set and interpersonal skills to be able to pull this off with a full section of 7-8 tables, likely has a much brighter future than waiting tables.

[Unregistered user]

I tip well when I go out, but I prefer to eat at home, the food is better, no line -ups, no uppity staff (Unless I ****ed wifey off), oh yeah, free-range venison.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by sns2

Dean, a person with the skill set and interpersonal skills to be able to pull this off with a full section of 7-8 tables, likely has a much brighter future than waiting tables.

Not necessarily. Peopele truly under rate what can can be accomplished serving tables. Talk to the waiters at Ceasars Steak House in Calgary. One of my branches there did the investment and wealth management private banking services for their staff. Most of the waiters have been working there more than 10 years. A couple have more than 40 years in. Those minimum wage workers own properties in California, Florida, Hawaii and Europe. They take 2 to 5 months of holidays a year and most are driving Mercedes and Lexus as their daily drivers. Their investment portfolios are truly impressive. They made that money serving meals at Ceasars and you can bet it wasn't their hourly pay that did it.

Talking Moose - the idea that someone working for minimum wage isn't capable of learning this simple list of rules and following them is actually quite offensive. These are taught to the staff of better restaurants every day all over Canada. Even the Banquet staff at the Hotel MacDonald, who are part time and mostly kids learn this stuff, if they don't they don't work.

Since when does the amount you get paid have anything to do with taking pride in your job and trying to do an excellent job. Whether you are looking for promotion or to rise to the top of your field or earn great tips, being outstanding at what you do is what it takes. If you can't learn to do this then you probably shouldn't be complaining about what you are getting paid, you should feel lucky to have a job at all.

Besides waiting tables in a high end place, I guarantee I can show someone how to make at least 150,000 a year in 4 different jobs that require nothing more than a grade 12 education, and most don't need that much education but you do have to know how to read, write and do basic math when you are in business, You also need a good work ethic. Investment is no more than $2,000 to get started and your own transportation.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Talking Moose - the idea that someone working for minimum wage isn't capable of learning this simple list of rules and following them is actually quite offensive. These are taught to the staff of better restaurants every day all over Canada. Even the Banquet staff at the Hotel MacDonald, who are part time and mostly kids learn this stuff, if they don't they don't work.

Quote me please. Never said such a thing. You are mistaken.

[Talking moose]

If you are going to be offended, be offended by the right person...

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Don't see anq less servers in the places I frequent. Alberta always had far higher restaurant prices than B.C, Sask or Man and we still do. Service hasn't improved but you also don't see help wanted signs in every restaurant window.

I rarely tipped before and now I never tip. How many of you are still tipping regualrly, seeing as how the servers are now well paid?

Well paid is relative. I don't think $15 is well paid. and you tip for hustle and attentiveness. And also part of the tip goes to other staff in the establishment.

I don't know why guys who refuse to tip don't just stay home. Buy your groceries and serve yourself. Tipping is an expected part of the dining experience, at least in North America. Don't accept it? Don't go. simple.

And the minimum wage won't hit $15 for a while yet (October 2018). It's $12.20 right now for servers. Stiffing them already are you? LOL

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

If you are going to be offended, be offended by the right person...

Sorry Moose, you are correct, you aren't the guy that said it, it was "does it all outdoors". My apologies for the incorrect attribution, read the wrong header line.

does it ALL outdoors That was the short form?
That's quite an extensive list of expectations from someone that makes MINIMUM wage.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I don't know why guys who refuse to tip don't just stay home. Buy your groceries and serve yourself. Tipping is an expected part of the dining experience, at least in North America. Don't accept it? Don't go. simple.
LOL

I understand that tipping is an expected part of dining and I am one who tips well over 90% of the time.

It is expected but not mandatory so another alternative that I understand is dine out and don't tip. simple. LOL

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Sorry Moose, you are correct, you aren't the guy that said it, it was "does it all outdoors". My apologies for the incorrect attribution, read the wrong header line.

No tip for you.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Sorry Moose, you are correct, you aren't the guy that said it, it was "does it all outdoors". My apologies for the incorrect attribution, read the wrong header line.

If you were a waiter your mistake is equivalent to mixing up the vegan guy with the guy who ordered his striploin blue rare