Cadomin Decline

[nube]

I haven't spent a ton of time around the mine but did go there recently to do some scouting. From what I have seen the last few times is that the quality and numbers of rams is WAY down. This last trip was a real eye opener. I think I saw one ram that was over 175 was all. Not many sheep on the mine either. Either they are all hiding or quality and numbers have been hit real hard for the last 10 years.

Last trip out I saw a wolf cross the road. Also saw a Grizz on the mine. Is it the hard winters we had years ago? Is it the Predators? Is it just a cycle you think?

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by nube

I haven't spent a ton of time around the mine but did go there recently to do some scouting. From what I have seen the last few times is that the quality and numbers of rams is WAY down. This last trip was a real eye opener. I think I saw one ram that was over 175 was all. Not many sheep on the mine either. Either they are all hiding or quality and numbers have been hit real hard for the last 10 years.

Last trip out I saw a wolf cross the road. Also saw a Grizz on the mine. Is it the hard winters we had years ago? Is it the Predators? Is it just a cycle you think?

A classic case of Hunting induced genetic selection.

[kujoseto]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

A classic case of Hunting induced genetic selection.

Meaning, shoot only the big ones and the little ones remain to reproduce?

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by kujoseto

Meaning, shoot only the big ones and the little ones remain to reproduce?

Is this your first sheep thread?

[fish_e_o]

there are no sheep anywhere this year. everyone should just stay home

[BackPackHunter]

Looking like 2015 with all the fires , going to make for hard glassing

[kw12]

That would be my dream hunt in around that area. Been doing lots of research and slowly putting together gear for a hunt like that. I hope things don't go downhill so much that when I'm ready to head in to try my luck there will be absolutely nothing left.

[husky7mm]

Do they take transplants from cadomine? How are the over all numbers as far a population? Do predators traget mature rams. Have the tag numbers gone up? Has the harvest gone up?

[elkhunter11]

How much effect has unregulated hunting had on the rams in that area?

[ryeguy21]

ive asked a family member who works in the mine for his thoughts on animals around there. I know hes mentioned theres no shortage of animals on the mine that he sees daily but how much sheep does he see?

[nube]

I have seen ten times the Elk I normally see.
I wouldn't say it is over harvest because they are not killing that many rams every year in the whole area combined.
I see way less bigger mature rams, older rams.
I just wonder if there has not been a rebound from the winter die off's or are the predators smashing them hard?
Do the fish cops run around on the mine much and look to see if they can find dead heads? They should be easy to find you would think.
I've noticed a big change but wonder if others have or not.

[Bigstone]

Originally Posted by nube

I have seen ten times the Elk I normally see.
I wouldn't say it is over harvest because they are not killing that many rams every year in the whole area combined.
I see way less bigger mature rams, older rams.
I just wonder if there has not been a rebound from the winter die off's or are the predators smashing them hard?
Do the fish cops run around on the mine much and look to see if they can find dead heads? They should be easy to find you would think.
I've noticed a big change but wonder if others have or not.

An elk recovery of ten fold is quite remarkable?

Sheep seem down in all my old haunts.

[saskwhitey]

When I had the tag 4 years ago, we saw 6-8 rams over 180, a few probably 190. From the pictures I have seen of harvested rams the last few years, they were mostly in the 170's, couple bruisers. Seems like all the old cadomin threads, they were shooting much bigger rams more often. Mine was 175.

[slickwilly]

I don't have much experience with the area, but I do remember reading in the sheep plan that the province released that they were predicting a decline on the actual rehabilitated mine site due to the change in the forage over time. Supposedly the initial burst of really high-quality forage doesn't last forever.

[nube]

Originally Posted by Bigstone

An elk recovery of ten fold is quite remarkable?

Sheep seem down in all my old haunts.

Yes it would be. Probably saw over 100 elk the last day I was out there. 2 big herds and a bunch of small groups. Saw one absolutely Giant bull just outside the mine before you go into it with one other decent 5x6. I have a pic on my camera and I will post someday when I am not too lazy to take it off to post.

[woods_walker]

Haven't seen many large rams the last few years. Definitely not the crankers that have been there in the past. Lots of predators and deep snow. This spring there was a sow grizzly with cubs that had a nice ram down near the highway in the deep snow. Also lots of spots for them to hang out without being near the roads as well as more area becomes reclaimed.

[ryeguy21]

as per my family member working on the mine there are hundreds of sheep that he see's daily. Doesnt do you any good for hunting but it at least tells you the numbers arent anywhere as horrible as you think they are.

Unless thats considered bad from years past.

[coachman]

I think if you look at past post there was a near world record head along with a bunch of big one also found near by in the last few years. I think the story was winter kill.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by slickwilly

I don't have much experience with the area, but I do remember reading in the sheep plan that the province released that they were predicting a decline on the actual rehabilitated mine site due to the change in the forage over time. Supposedly the initial burst of really high-quality forage doesn't last forever.

Yes, forage quality is one factor in the smaller horn size, along with population density.

These sheep had much smaller horns before the mine was reclaimed, and now that the quality of feed is decreasing while competition and stress factors are increasing, horn size is dropping.

Yet over at Ram Mountain, where the exact same conditions played out, the genetic harm gang decided to blame hunters for the reduced body and horn size....

Originally Posted by nube

I have seen ten times the Elk I normally see.
I wouldn't say it is over harvest because they are not killing that many rams every year in the whole area combined.
I see way less bigger mature rams, older rams.
I just wonder if there has not been a rebound from the winter die off's or are the predators smashing them hard?
Do the fish cops run around on the mine much and look to see if they can find dead heads? They should be easy to find you would think.
I've noticed a big change but wonder if others have or not.

Predators are killing a pile of rams every year.
If they didn't, the herd would likely be in even worse shape due to overpopulation and disease concerns.

F&W has more ram skulls than they can even think of doing anything with....
Sheds and freezers full of them.

Many are aware of the horn size change, the WSFAb, Provincial bios, and particularly the Minister's tag auction buyers.

This should come as no surprise. It was predicted and has played out as expected, just as it has in other locations.

[husky7mm]

Originally Posted by nube

I have seen ten times the Elk I normally see.
I wouldn't say it is over harvest because they are not killing that many rams every year in the whole area combined.
I see way less bigger mature rams, older rams.
I just wonder if there has not been a rebound from the winter die off's or are the predators smashing them hard?
Do the fish cops run around on the mine much and look to see if they can find dead heads? They should be easy to find you would think.
I've noticed a big change but wonder if others have or not.

A high elk, high wt population can premote a high predator population, also habitat compition.

[AB2506]

Originally Posted by husky7mm

A high elk, high wt population can premote a high predator population, also habitat compition.

And you wonder why the caribou are in trouble? Same with moose.

WT carry parasites that don't bother them much, but are deadly for moose. Remember WT are relatively new to large chunks of Alberta.

[husky7mm]

The moose will go the way of the caribou sadly unless management changes.

[dshaw]

Originally Posted by husky7mm

The moose will go the way of the caribou sadly unless management changes.

They will just reduce resident tags. Thats their management tool. Its easy and cheap

[wylecoyote]

I am not great on scoring sheep but I have noticed a decline in absolute crankers in the last few years. I have hunted the area for sheep and elk for 5 years now and put tons of miles on up there. In the last 3 years I have noticed a major increase in grizzly numbers. We saw 9 in one day last year on the opener(3 sows with cubs). Talked to one local last year that showed me pics of 3 elk dead heads he found...possibly on the mine... All were large 6x6 bulls(winter bachelor group) he found on a small lake where I am guessing the wolves took them down. Hunters also did well last year from what I know. At least 4 rams on opening day that I know of and 14 bull elk taken from the zones around the mine. That is a lot of bulls from a 6 point zone. Still going to keep putting in my time up there this year though. Eventually I will find me a ram to shoot.

[buck12]

The Rams are probably still in their Bachelor groups at this time but should be starting to mix in a couple weeks. those elite groups stick to the higher country and are quite elusive as we all know.
Safe sheep hunting to all of you and may the hunting gods be kind to you.

[Cassidyr1]

I have the lottery draw for 438 on Nov 1-10. Most people suggest I don't bunt mine rams but would have better chances hunting the park rams . Does anyone know how hunters have done hunting mine rams in the fist 10 days of nov?

[nube]

Originally Posted by Cassidyr1

I have the lottery draw for 438 on Nov 1-10. Most people suggest I don't bunt mine rams but would have better chances hunting the park rams . Does anyone know how hunters have done hunting mine rams in the fist 10 days of nov?

Your best bet is to hire someone that knows what is going on. If it costs you 5-10K it will be the cheapest ram for you if successful lol
You can't beat good experience and know how in an area you don't know with a less than ideal time frame in my mind

[andyzolik]

What do you guys think of the numbers now during the season?

I just spent two days in there. We glassed a lot of land and had only seen 4 eves in total. Even on the road through the mine we seen only 7 rams(one legal). We talked to some other hunters and they had a similar experience.

Makes you wonder what happened.

Even without any sheep its still a time well spent for me though. The country is beautiful.

Good luck to everyone for the rest of the season.



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[6tmile]

Is there a lot of subsistence hunting in that area?

[andyzolik]

Im not sure. But sheep is probably too much work for that kind of hunt.

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