Hornady GMX

[skidderman]

Well this is entertaining if nothing else. More fun than watching the tube.

[benamen]

Guys at Sierra asked me the same question. So I went out and bought a chrony. 2850.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by benamen

Guys at Sierra asked me the same question. So I went out and bought a chrony. 2850.

I have taken many deer and even a 300lbs feral wild boar with the 130gr Gamekings and have always been really impressed. In fact my best 500 yard group was shot using them....3 shot 1.312 inch group...for me it doesn't get better.

I am really surprised you observed what you did.

LC

[benamen]

I used to use the 130gr Game Kings. They were the most accurate bullet I ever shot out of my Tikka and took down deer very well. Wanted a load to use on deer and moose as the 270 was my only rifle. So I went to the 150gr Game Kings.
Went and purchased a Sako in a 300 WSM two years ago. Took a moose and helped take down a couple of mulies with it. Using 168gr TTSXs and quite pleased with them. Best accuracy I have ever had. Recovered one bullet from a mulie after doing a texas heart shot. 250 yards and it had mushroomed nicely.

[Mountain Guy]

Perhaps the ''failure'' of solid bullets could be attributed to missing bone on entry.
Not sure what the manufacturer's claim regarding performance of said bullets, but my thinking is that if a monmetal bullet hits hide and jelly they may not open up as advertised.
Isn't that one of the selling features of these bullets that they will drive through bone to get the job done?
To me that means they won't perform as well as jacketed bullets when they don't hit bone.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by benamen

I have had 150 gr Sierra Game Kings that I loaded in my 270 not expand. Shot a few deer and one moose with them. The lungs of the deer looked like a pencil was poked through them.

Cough, cough, cough, aaaargh, cough.....

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by benamen

I used to use the 130gr Game Kings. They were the most accurate bullet I ever shot out of my Tikka and took down deer very well.

I, too, have found them among the most accurate bullets made. I don't know why I have shot hundreds of premium bullets in several different rifles looking for something "better". Probably comes from reading too many shooting magazines. I noticed that with golf, anyway. Just about the time my handicap was getting manageable, I'd read a real convincing "how to" article and then be back digging beaver tails out of the fairway.

[elkhunter11]

Isn't that one of the selling features of these bullets that they will drive through bone to get the job done?
To me that means they won't perform as well as jacketed bullets when they don't hit bone.

Your theory is badly flawed.

These bullets can open properly without hitting bone, because they have a hollow nose cavity with a poly wedge to help initiate expansion. This is the same idea as a Nosler Ballistic Tip, which is known as one of the most rapidly expanding hunting bullets available.
They don't fragment, because the shank is one piece.

Although they are constructed differently, they actually perform similarly to the Nosler Partition, except the Partition sheds more weight. Using your reasoning, since the Partition does quite well at penetrating bone, it shouldn't work very well when it doesn't strike bone, yet it does.

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Perhaps the ''failure'' of solid bullets could be attributed to missing bone on entry.
Not sure what the manufacturer's claim regarding performance of said bullets, but my thinking is that if a monmetal bullet hits hide and jelly they may not open up as advertised.
Isn't that one of the selling features of these bullets that they will drive through bone to get the job done?
To me that means they won't perform as well as jacketed bullets when they don't hit bone.

They drive through and penetrate well because they retain virtually 100% of their weight. More retained weight equals more penetration. They actually expand quite readily do to design...providing they hit with enough velocity...1,800-2,000fps. It's kind of a best of both worlds thing although you don't get the damage from fragmentation that lead bullets offer. That leads some to believe that expansion was poor when it was quite likely greater than the lead bullet but with no fragmentation for the secondary damage that some equate to expansion.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Your theory is badly flawed.

These bullets can open properly without hitting bone, because they have a hollow nose cavity with a poly wedge to help initiate expansion. This is the same idea as a Nosler Ballistic Tip, which is known as one of the most rapidly expanding hunting bullets available.
They don't fragment, because the shank is one piece.

Although they are constructed differently, they actually perform similarly to the Nosler Partition, except the Partition sheds more weight. Using your reasoning, since the Partition does quite well at penetrating bone, it shouldn't work very well when it doesn't strike bone, yet it does.

Both bullets you use for your example have lead cores.
Not the same... sorry

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

They drive through and penetrate well because they retain virtually 100% of their weight. More retained weight equals more penetration. They actually expand quite readily do to design...providing they hit with enough velocity...1,800-2,000fps. It's kind of a best of both worlds thing although you don't get the damage from fragmentation that lead bullets offer. That leads some to believe that expansion was poor when it was quite likely greater than the lead bullet but with no fragmentation for the secondary damage that some equate to expansion.

Maybe the fragmentation of the lead bullet contributes to game on the ground when 100% retention may not

[elkhunter11]

Both bullets you use for your example have lead cores.
Not the same... sorry

The Ballistic Tip expands rapidly because of the hollow cavity with a poly wedge, not because it has a lead core. If you take out the poly tip, and fill the hollow cavity with lead, you end up with the old Solid Base design, which doesn't expand nearly as rapidly.

The Partition has a solid partition which in effect creates the same effect as having a solid shank.

Are you familiar with the barnes MRX, the Winchester XP3, or the Failsafe? All three have a separate core, yet all three performs just like a monometal bullet. Having a separate core doesn't change that.

Maybe the fragmentation of the lead bullet contributes to game on the ground when 100% retention may not

Just how many big game animals have you personally seen run off a considerable distance, after being shot properly with one of the newer monometal bullets?

[Mountain Guy]

[QUOTE=elkhunter11;1667724]The Ballistic Tip expands rapidly because of the hollow cavity with a poly wedge, not because it has a lead core. If you take out the poly tip, and fill the hollow cavity with lead, you end up with the old Solid Base design, which doesn't expand nearly as rapidly.

The Partition has a solid partition which in effect creates the same effect as having a solid shank.

Are you familiar with the barnes MRX, the Winchester XP3, or the Failsafe? All three have a separate core, yet all three performs just like a monometal bullet. Having a separate core doesn't change that.



Just how many big game animals have you personally seen run off a considerable distance, after being shot properly with one of the newer monometal bullets?[/QUOTE]

The same amount as those hit by lead core bullets.......NONE

BTW....your comparisons are ''flawed'' .
As much of a physicist you think you may be, you cannot ignore the fact that a mono bullet and a lead core bullet are inherently different.
And believe it or not....they MAY not react the same.
IMO

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Maybe the fragmentation of the lead bullet contributes to game on the ground when 100% retention may not

There is some arguement to be made for the value of the fragmentation field for sure but there is also an arguement to be made for larger game with weight retention. At the end of the day, both will kill with proper shot placement. My only point waas that mono metals reliably expand, even in soft tissue to an average of around 2x. I wasn't making a case that they were superior some some inferrred.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

There is some arguement to be made for the value of the fragmentation field for sure but there is also an arguement to be made for larger game with weight retention. At the end of the day, both will kill with proper shot placement. My only point waas that mono metals reliably expand, even in soft tissue to an average of around 2x. I wasn't making a case that they were superior some some inferrred.

And that may very well be the case in some instances. If a solid bullet does a complete pass through,parting ribs and dodging vitals,veins and arteries vs, a jacketed bullet which will fragment and perhaps take with it some parts that the animal can't do without....I think the outcome may be different.
But saying that, you could have instances where a jacketed bullet will fail upon hitting major bone whereas the solid bullet will deliver fatal results.

At no point did I jump in here to discount the monometals.. as ''badly flawed'' as my judgement may be I was just trying to add some different angles as to why the GMX may not have got the job done when some thought it should have.
Would the results have been different with a different bullet?
Who the hell knows!
We can't rewind the situation, reload and fire into the same hole with a different bullet to see.
When that day comes we can put this never ending discussion to rest

[elkhunter11]

The same amount as those hit by lead core bullets.......NONE

So you haven't seen a single case where a monometal bullet failed, whether it struck bone or not?

you cannot ignore the fact that a mono bullet and a lead core bullet are inherently different.
And believe it or not....they MAY not react the same.

And by your previously answer, neither failed to do the job, so in that way they reacted the same.

As much of a physicist you think you may be,

I never claimed to be a physicist, but I can use the quote function properly, which is something you apparently messed up with your attempt at putting on the fancy display of colors and fonts.

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

And that may very well be the case in some instances. If a solid bullet does a complete pass through,parting ribs and dodging vitals,veins and arteries vs, a jacketed bullet which will fragment and perhaps take with it some parts that the animal can't do without....I think the outcome may be different.
But saying that, you could have instances where a jacketed bullet will fail upon hitting major bone whereas the solid bullet will deliver fatal results.

At no point did I jump in here to discount the monometals.. as ''badly flawed'' as my judgement may be I was just trying to add some different angles as to why the GMX may not have got the job done when some thought it should have.
Would the results have been different with a different bullet?
Who the hell knows!
We can't rewind the situation, reload and fire into the same hole with a different bullet to see.
When that day comes we can put this never ending discussion to rest

At the end of the day, regardless of bullet choice, I'd blame poor shooting for most cases where bullets "failed" regardless of type.

[Mountain Guy]

elkhunter11 and SH...you guys can have the last word again...

as usual..

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by chuck

When are they going to offer more options?

Thank you for your inquiry. We are always working on new products. Please watch our website mid-November for announcement of New Products.

Thank you again.



Hornady Sales Team

Phone 1-800-338-3220