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12-10-2018, 09:24 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoiledsaskhunter
well you seem to want it to be a hybrid, so........ok, it's a hybrid. what changes? move on to the next thread.
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Just my opinion since mule and whitetail are travelling together more then they used to
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12-10-2018, 09:30 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remingtonusa
I have lived on a farm over 25 years and hunted 21 years. This is just a totally different type of hair. My grandpa hunted for over 50 years and he agrees with me that it’s a hybrid and so does a taxidermist of 40 or more years.
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And another taxidermist and many experienced hunters here have told you that it is Not a hybrid.
It is obvious that you are set in what you will believe.
At least take this event to learn that it is wrong to identify a hybrid by antler configuration or hair colour/texture. The only reliable way to determine a hybrid other than by DNA analysis is to compare the location and size of the tarsal glands. Take the opportunity to teach Grandpa and the old taxidermist something new to them.
What is with the desire to claim having killed a hybrid, Ego?
Do these people not realize that hybrids are genetic mutants with poor physiological deformities?
Why brag that you shot a mutant that even Fudd could kill?
__________________
Alberta Fish and Wildlife Outdoor Recreation Policy -
"to identify very rare, scarce or special forms of fish and wildlife outdoor recreation opportunities and to ensure that access to these opportunities continues to be available to all Albertans."
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12-10-2018, 12:04 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 15,847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remingtonusa
I have lived on a farm over 25 years and hunted 21 years. This is just a totally different type of hair. My grandpa hunted for over 50 years and he agrees with me that it’s a hybrid and so does a taxidermist of 40 or more years.
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I’m not quoting you, but it is applicable.
__________________
“I love it when clients bring Berger bullets. It means I get to kill the bear.”
-Billy Molls
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12-10-2018, 03:27 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,522
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"The best feature to determine if a deer is a hybrid is the size of the metatarsal gland, which is located on the outside of the lower portion of the rear legs. This should not be confused with the tarsal glands on the inside of the legs. The metatarsals on mule deer sit high on the lower leg and are 3 to 6 inches long and surrounded by light brown fur. The whitetail’s metatarsals are at or below the mid-point of the lower leg, usually less than 1 inch, and surrounded by white hairs. A whitetail-mule deer hybrid has metatarsal glands that split the difference, usually measuring between 2-4 inches and encircled with white hair.
Biologists have documented the presence of hybrids in the wild on only a few occasions. The relative scarcity of confirmed hybrids among the hundreds of thousands of deer that have been seen throughout the area of range overlap illustrates how rare they are. Every year numerous reports are received of “hybrid” deer from hunters. Arizona researcher, Gerald Day (who produced captive hybrids) investigated over 200 reports of “hybrids” and did not find a single legitimate whitetail-mule deer hybrid. Most of these hybrid reports come from hunters who have a whitetail tag on the leg of a mule deer and are trying to convince the Game Warden that they are at least half right."
ref: https://www.coueswhitetail.com/tails...-deer-hybrids/
that deer look to me as 100% normal whitetail.
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12-10-2018, 04:41 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 11,371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remingtonusa
Just my opinion since mule and whitetail are travelling together more then they used to
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What do you base that assertation on?
__________________
“One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce, and canonized those who complain.”
Thomas Sowell
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12-10-2018, 04:44 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
Posts: 24,612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
If I wondered if I shot a hybrid I would contact the local fish and Wilflife Biologist and get the DNA tested .That is the only way to tell fir sure
Cat
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Then where would be our entertainment?
__________________
Be careful when you follow the masses, sometimes the "M" is silent...
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12-10-2018, 05:13 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Beaverlodge
Posts: 1,859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikergolf
What do you base that assertation on?
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Exactly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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12-10-2018, 06:55 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,927
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So the only pics of the deer you have are from after you cut it's head off?
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12-10-2018, 07:06 PM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushrat
So the only pics of the deer you have are from after you cut it's head off?
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That seems to be enough for the AO experts doesn't it.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw
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12-10-2018, 07:37 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubious
"The best feature to determine if a deer is a hybrid is the size of the metatarsal gland, which is located on the outside of the lower portion of the rear legs. This should not be confused with the tarsal glands on the inside of the legs. The metatarsals on mule deer sit high on the lower leg and are 3 to 6 inches long and surrounded by light brown fur. The whitetail’s metatarsals are at or below the mid-point of the lower leg, usually less than 1 inch, and surrounded by white hairs. A whitetail-mule deer hybrid has metatarsal glands that split the difference, usually measuring between 2-4 inches and encircled with white hair.
Biologists have documented the presence of hybrids in the wild on only a few occasions. The relative scarcity of confirmed hybrids among the hundreds of thousands of deer that have been seen throughout the area of range overlap illustrates how rare they are. Every year numerous reports are received of “hybrid” deer from hunters. Arizona researcher, Gerald Day (who produced captive hybrids) investigated over 200 reports of “hybrids” and did not find a single legitimate whitetail-mule deer hybrid. Most of these hybrid reports come from hunters who have a whitetail tag on the leg of a mule deer and are trying to convince the Game Warden that they are at least half right."
ref: https://www.coueswhitetail.com/tails...-deer-hybrids/
that deer look to me as 100% normal whitetail.
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THE ABOVE MENTIONED IS THE ONLY reliable way to physically determine if your deer is a hybrid. Short of a DNA test - that's all and that's it.
Hybridisation is extremely rare as fertilisation rates are extremely low, followed by even lower rates of offspring carried to term, and coupled with significantly high rates of mutation for offspring that do make it to term resulting in extremely low rates of surviving offspring reaching maturity.
You are talking about lighting striking 3 times in a row, hitting the same tree, in the same field on the same day kinda thing (based on what I've read).
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12-12-2018, 08:54 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Somewhere north of Edmonton
Posts: 616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catnthehat
Yup take a look at the tail then make a decision .
Whether or not it later tested as a true hybrid or not would make no difference to me as it was legally tagged as per the tail that the deer wore but if it did turn out to be a true hybrid it certainly would make good conversation
Cat
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^^^
What he said!
We were told by a F&W officer years back to tag according to the most predominant feature......ie: the tail.
While I have not doubt hybrids happen, I can only think of one occasion where I'm 100% sure I saw a hybrid.
We have a lot of mule deer living in my small town year round and a few years back I saw a mulie doe with twins. I looked at the babies and did a double take and pulled over and stopped. I tried like hell to get some clear pictures but couldn't get a really good one. I tried a couple more times to get pictures over the next week or two but it never worked out as the only camera I have is the one on my smartphone and it doesn't take the best picutres. Then after a couple weeks I never saw them again.
This was early fall, say Sept/Oct so their spots were gone. Both bambies had identical tails. They were longer than a normal mulie tail and were dark on the outside and white on the underside like a whitetail but had a black tip on the bottom. I wanted a nice clear picture so I could ask a local F&W officer I see at the range all the time how he would recommend tagging something like that..........LOL
Oh and every time I saw them, they were not only with their mom who had a normal mulie tail, they were with a couple other does and at least one of them had twins too so I had ample comparisons when I was looking at them.
__________________
It matters not how straight the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
***William Henley***
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12-12-2018, 10:37 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: saskatoon
Posts: 844
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Hair is a very poor difining factor. I have very blond, very fine hair. Not bald ( yet ) but lots of hair just very, very fine. My older brother has dark, very course curly hair, very course. We have the same parents and both white males. Am I a hybrid ?? Hair means very little. Have we never seen a litter of puppies with very different hair. Please. Get the back feet and look at them.
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12-24-2018, 11:35 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhunter51
Hair is a very poor difining factor. I have very blond, very fine hair. Not bald ( yet ) but lots of hair just very, very fine. My older brother has dark, very course curly hair, very course. We have the same parents and both white males. Am I a hybrid ?? Hair means very little. Have we never seen a litter of puppies with very different hair. Please. Get the back feet and look at them.
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Ok. I have did research and found that it isn’t a hybrid. Considering he only weighed 150 pounds dressed I was wondering could it be a Coues Whitetail? I know they are a smaller body size from my research
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12-24-2018, 11:39 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remingtonusa
Ok. I have did research and found that it isn’t a hybrid. Considering he only weighed 150 pounds dressed I was wondering could it be a Coues Whitetail? I know they are a smaller body size from my research
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No, it's not a Coues if it was shot in Alberta.
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12-24-2018, 11:45 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remingtonusa
Ok. I have did research and found that it isn’t a hybrid. Considering he only weighed 150 pounds dressed I was wondering could it be a Coues Whitetail? I know they are a smaller body size from my research
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It wasn’t a Sitka blacktail either.
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12-24-2018, 11:46 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: McBride/Prince George
Posts: 14,580
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You sure want it to be anything but a whitetail.
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12-24-2018, 11:48 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
You sure want it to be anything but a whitetail.
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No kidding!
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
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12-24-2018, 11:48 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Foothills
Posts: 2,337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remingtonusa
Ok. I have did research and found that it isn’t a hybrid. Considering he only weighed 150 pounds dressed I was wondering could it be a Coues Whitetail? I know they are a smaller body size from my research
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Wow!
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12-24-2018, 11:54 AM
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Gone Hunting
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lougheed,Ab.
Posts: 12,736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remingtonusa
Ok. I have did research and found that it isn’t a hybrid. Considering he only weighed 150 pounds dressed I was wondering could it be a Coues Whitetail? I know they are a smaller body size from my research
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Exactly what do you think a dressed white tail should weigh??
__________________
The future ain't what it used to be - Yogi Berra
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12-24-2018, 12:26 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 128
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Dude, you clearly don't sound all that experienced...
First you tried to convince us as much as yourself that it was a hybrid based on hair thickness and colour?!? lol
Now, you're trying to tell us it could be a coues deer, in Alberta, because it weighed 150lbs dressed... I shot a 167 inch whitetail here in Saskatchewan that weighed 145lbs dressed, I've also shot 140lbs spikers out east.
Just stop, please.
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12-24-2018, 12:29 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hal53
Exactly what do you think a dressed white tail should weigh??
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I don't think he knows himself. A coues deer will rarely weigh up to 150lbs on the hoof and that would involve forgetting that coues deer roam thousands of miles away from Alberta...
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12-24-2018, 01:25 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,927
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Did this deer have a red nose? It's probably Rudolph, he's a tiny 150 lb. reindeer with a red nose that can be found anywhere in the world. Your story rates 5 lumps of coal.
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12-24-2018, 02:13 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 752
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quit feeding the troll guys
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12-24-2018, 02:19 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,332
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shot one
A hybrid doe about a decade ago and Red Deer F+W couldn't be bothered to come over and see it when I called them. So it got ate.
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12-24-2018, 03:25 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remingtonusa
Ok. I have did research and found that it isn’t a hybrid. Considering he only weighed 150 pounds dressed I was wondering could it be a Coues Whitetail? I know they are a smaller body size from my research
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LOL...
Priceless.
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12-24-2018, 06:25 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayseed
LOL...
Priceless.
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I’m talking about field dressed if you guys know what that is, not skinned and with head still attached. The way you guys talk I think I’m more experienced then you guys. I shot one once that after it was skinned and head taken off that weighed 170 pounds
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12-24-2018, 06:31 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Morinville
Posts: 699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose
You sure want it to be anything but a whitetail.
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Few more weeks it'll be a bear lol
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12-24-2018, 06:34 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 7,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remingtonusa
I’m talking about field dressed if you guys know what that is, not skinned and with head still attached. The way you guys talk I think I’m more experienced then you guys. I shot one once that after it was skinned and head taken off that weighed 170 pounds
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It’s a white tail and nothing more
Look at the range of Couse deer and it will explain why you’re catching flack
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12-24-2018, 06:48 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhunter51
Hair is a very poor difining factor. I have very blond, very fine hair. Not bald ( yet ) but lots of hair just very, very fine. My older brother has dark, very course curly hair, very course. We have the same parents and both white males. Am I a hybrid ?? Hair means very little. Have we never seen a litter of puppies with very different hair. Please. Get the back feet and look at them.
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Same parents? Hmmmmm.
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12-24-2018, 07:09 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 838
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I shot a hybrid Deer once. You know how I know it was a hybrid, because it spent the entire summer eating in a hybrid canola field!
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