Berger bullets

[bighornfool]

Anyone out there had any expience with 168 grain vlt in 7.mm wetherby.I,ve tried several different loads without a lot of success.Usually use 160 partions & they shoot great but have heard alot about berger,s & would like try then hunting.

[Pudelpointer]

Bighornfool,

If you want to read a few hundred pages of discussion on this topic, head over to CGN (Canadian Gunnutz) and you will find more information then you could possibly want.

2 opinions dominate:

1. "Great bullet for long range hunting (say out past 600 yards where that high BC makes a difference), especially for spine shots."

2. "Why the hell would you even consider a 'Target Bullet' for hunting, when there are so many great hunting bullet options? You owe it to the animals you hunt to use a properly constructed hunting bullet!"

If you are wondering, I am in the second camp. Besides, the reason for using this bullet is strictly to gain an accuracy advantage at long range, and since the bullets do not seem to fly well from your rifle, why bother?

[bigoldan43]

Bighornfool,

For real good information about berger bullets talk to Mel at Sore Shoulder in Clareholm.403-625-3973

The problem may be your rate of twist. The VLD is a long bullet especially in the 160 gr. You may want to go with just the Hunting bullet.

Bergers are notoriously accurate. And while I can only provide second hand info on their performance on game, the folks I've talked to swear by them. There's a family in our town that loads them for three hunters for two years now. Tons of game down, one shot and decent longer type shots.

As for the Pudelpointer chewing you out for target bullets for game hunting, well it is illegal. But I'm assuming you are using the Berger Hunting bullets, they do make both types. And I use the best bullet I can for the most accuracy I can wring out of my rifles too. If that makes me a poor hunter well so be it.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by bigoldan43

As for the Pudelpointer chewing you out for target bullets for game hunting, well it is illegal. But I'm assuming you are using the Berger Hunting bullets, they do make both types.

Huh? Not sure where you read that. The only restriction on bullet type in AB is regarding FMJ and "explosive" bullets, IIRC. There is no prohibition on using "match" or "target" bullets. And again, IMO, that is all the Berger "hunting" bullets are - a target bullet. FWIW, before I knew better, I shot a small muley buck with a 308 Matchking, well all I can say is lesson learned.

To each their own, and I hope it works out for you. But be aware that there are numerous reports of chitty performance to accompany the "holy grail of hunting bullets" BS, when it comes to the Berger VLD's.

[elkhunter11]

The only restriction on bullet type in AB is regarding FMJ and "explosive" bullets, IIRC.

The regulations do not use the designation FMJ.The designation that is used in the regulations is "non expanding" bullet.That could include any bullet that is not designed to expand.Do all target bullets expand when they strike an animal?Are they designed to expand?

[Pudelpointer]

I stand corrected, I was having a BC regulations flashback. The point I was trying to make was that no enforcement officer is going to charge you with have "non-expanding" bullets if using Berger VLD's (hunting or match) or Matchkings etc., because they would not know the difference. A FMJ however will land you a ticket, pretty much guaranteed.

You are right in that "match bullets" are not designed to expand reliably (or at all for that matter) but I would not consider them "non-expanding" either.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Huh? Not sure where you read that. The only restriction on bullet type in AB is regarding FMJ and "explosive" bullets, IIRC. There is no prohibition on using "match" or "target" bullets. And again, IMO, that is all the Berger "hunting" bullets are - a target bullet. FWIW, before I knew better, I shot a small muley buck with a 308 Matchking, well all I can say is lesson learned.

To each their own, and I hope it works out for you. But be aware that there are numerous reports of chitty performance to accompany the "holy grail of hunting bullets" BS, when it comes to the Berger VLD's.

I do get a kick out of people who repeat internet stories as gospel! You wouldn't suppose nameless faceless people would BS on an internet forum would you? Huh? Nah...
Unless you have used them yourself and have some real world experience to report the rest is just internet fog.
Yeah I've used them and everything I shot with them died with one shot. 6 critters so far, but they certainly aren't the only bullet I use.

[Pudelpointer]

As I said in my first post, there are lovers and haters, not too many in between. There are a fair number of advocates for the Matchking as a hunting bullet as well. That I did try, and from experience I believe that it is not a viable hunting bullet. Glad some are having good luck with them, same with the Bergers.

So, how many hundred posts of supporters and detractors do you think this thread will produce? My attempt to cover the realities of the argument with my first post was obviously a failure, so speak up everyone.

I will be elsewhere, hopefully involved in a worthwhile discussion.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

As I said in my first post, there are lovers and haters, not too many in between. There are a fair number of advocates for the Matchking as a hunting bullet as well. That I did try, and from experience I believe that it is not a viable hunting bullet. Glad some are having good luck with them, same with the Bergers.

So, how many hundred posts of supporters and detractors do you think this thread will produce? My attempt to cover the realities of the argument with my first post was obviously a failure, so speak up everyone.

I will be elsewhere, hopefully involved in a worthwhile discussion.

You attempted to discourage the OP from trying Berger bullets in your first post, there was no attempt at "covering the realities".

[Pudelpointer]

209, not sure why your panties are in a twist, I simply put forward both arguments, and gave my opinion (in my first post). Geez, you are acting like you have a vested interest in the financial success of the company.

I apologize for having a contrary opinion, I will never let it happen again.

All hail 209!

Seriously though, the OP stated that he could not get them to shoot in his rifle (in other words: HE HAS ALREADY TRIED THEM), another poster correctly pointed out that it was likely due to the twist rate, so why would anyone suggest he keep trying them?

[flint]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

As I said in my first post, there are lovers and haters, not too many in between. There are a fair number of advocates for the Matchking as a hunting bullet as well. That I did try, and from experience I believe that it is not a viable hunting bullet. Glad some are having good luck with them, same with the Bergers.

So, how many hundred posts of supporters and detractors do you think this thread will produce? My attempt to cover the realities of the argument with my first post was obviously a failure, so speak up everyone.

I will be elsewhere, hopefully involved in a worthwhile discussion.

What is the difference between the Berger target bullet to their hunting bullet? I don't have much confidence in them and know that there are better bullets out there than the Berger. What makes them so great compared to the Sierra Match King that has been the superior long range bullet for decades ? Ninety-nine percent of hunters don't take 600 plus yard shots, so why the big hype! I've tried them on paper but did not like them and did not have confidence in them after nailing a few phone books. I will agree with you Pudelpointer that they will kill, and there is a hell of alot better out there to hunt with.

You can get them in Spruce Grove.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

209, not sure why your panties are in a twist, I simply put forward both arguments, and gave my opinion (in my first post). Geez, you are acting like you have a vested interest in the financial success of the company.

I apologize for having a contrary opinion, I will never let it happen again.

All hail 209!

Seriously though, the OP stated that he could not get them to shoot in his rifle (in other words: HE HAS ALREADY TRIED THEM), another poster correctly pointed out that it was likely due to the twist rate, so why would anyone suggest he keep trying them?

No vested interest in anything other than the truth. You seem to have a vested interest in discouraging people from trying the bullets. What would that be?
All Hail Pudel!
Now with the stupidity over the OP had at least tried the Berger bullets, something you haven't, so it begs the question how were you qualified to answer his question?
Bigolddan probably has the solution for your question, the 168 and 180 7mm Bergers need a 1:9 twist in the barrel to work. Other than that seat the bullet at 10 thousands off the rifling to start.

[7RUM]

this bullet has a long o-give that with the free bore might not get close to the lands. I shoot 168 gr bergers in my 7 RUM with good results 1/2 moa or better out to 900+ yards and bang flop. I think you should shoot a bullet that shoots good in your gun. if you can not hit them they will not die, or worse.

[Dean2]

7RUM

What powder are you using behind the Bergers. I am about to work up a high speed load for mine with the 162 grain Hornday's and was just playing with which powder to start with. Have been using 4831 for the 140s with great accurracy but it is likely too fast to get max warp out of the 162s.

As to the question at hand, I have never used the Bergers on big game but they are accurate as hell and very explosive in 17 and 22 caliber. (the 17 will shoot three shot .346 groups at 200 yards and I have posted the picture on here in another thread).

Most target bullets suffer from too rapid an expansion at close range and high speed so not usually the best choice on large game under 300 yards. That said, this is exactly what makes them better killers than a straight hunting bullet at ranges over 3 or 400 yards and for sure when you get past 500. A Barnes TSX or Nosler Partition going too slow doesn't open up well at all.

I have shot a pile of game with Hornady 162 grain Boat Tail Hollow Point Match bullets out of a 7mm Rem Mag. I still have about 300 of these thank goodness because they don't make them any more. Over the past 30 years I have shot everything from coyotes, deer, bear, elk and moose with them and never had one walk away but under 300 yards on elk and bigger I use the 175 Horn SP. On deer the HP works fine at any range. (Lucky for me the two rounds shoot exactly the same lateral POI with a one inch lower vertical impact on the 175s)

I am going to try their new Amaxs because they have an even higher BC at .625. Persoanlly I would not use any target bullet for under 300 yards on game larger than deer, there are much better choices, but if you like long distance shooting you need the ultimate in accurracy and that is almost always a target grade bullet, and you need the easier expansion at the lower velocities. Just my 2 cents based on lots of personal experience.

[7RUM]

Dean
I am using hodgdon Retumbo. start low and work up. This is where the fun starts. Good luck.

[Bobby B.]

According to Walt Berger, the Hunting VLD has a THINNER jacket than the corresponding Hunting VLD.

Next March, I'm killing my eland and my waterbuck with the same 7mm 168 VLD I used to kill kudu, gemsbok, black and blue wildebeest, zebra, etc.. The eland should provide a real test as to the performance of the VLD.

Bobby B.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Bobby B.

According to Walt Berger, the Hunting VLD has a THINNER jacket than the corresponding Hunting VLD.
.

I believe that should read the hunting VLD has a thinner jacket than the corresponding "Match" VLD

[Bobby B.]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

I believe that should read the hunting VLD has a thinner jacket than the corresponding "Match" VLD

Mark, thanks for the correction. You're absolutely right, the Hunting VLD has a thinner jacket than the Match VLD.

Bobby B.

[Broker]

I Have been shooting Bergers for about 3 years out of a 243 a 270wsm 300 win mag 7mm mag 25-06 have had great luck and accuracy seating depth a definite as well as twist have shot moose deer and bears with them have performed very well I have a range out my back door that i set up to 1000 yards and shoot on a average 3 days a week have tried alot of different bullets and can say I really like how accurate bergers are at longer range (match kings good to )
I shoot alot of steel and have noticed bergers will make bigger divots at 200 yards and farther in the steel than partitions grand slams and tsx,s
I know this really does not mean that much but was suprised with my findings I have a brother in law that is out in b.c. sheep hunting right now and we loaded grand slams in his 3oo saum cause there is alot of grizzlies however I still believe shot placement means more than bullets given any resonable bullet otherwise we would all have cannons strapped to our backs I was one that wasn't a firm beliver in bergers sure glad i am shooting them now.
not to say that they are the only bullet i am shooting (there are alot of good one out there
just my 2 cents
rl22 works great too
ps did any one notice after berger had troubles with there press there new bullets are shorter i miked them today and they are
bc changed as well in 168 vld .284

[noneck180]

Bergers are a little tougher to make shoot well with Weatherbys free bore..from my experience..anything else I shoot..uses Bergers.
If you haven't tried Retumbo..maybe try that..it worked in a few 7 Rem mags of mine.

[bighornfool]

Have experimented alot in last week or so,gave up sighting at 100yds & went out to 200yds,started using RL 22 quite a bit under max & .015 longer than C.O.A.L that was recomened in the manuals.Shot 2" group@ 200yds& 2.5" group at 300yds.Hot day but not much wind.Will be using them sheep hunting this year.I think the Weatherby has 1 in 9 twist?does anyone no for sure.