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08-13-2019, 02:50 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bawlf, A.B
Posts: 3
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changes to 2020 hunting draws
Reading the new hunting regulations, I see the part about having to buy your wildlife certificate in 2020 prior to entering draws? How will this effect hunters like my dad who only hunts moose in northern Alberta. He 999's his draws for 3 years in a row because he knows he will only get drawn every 4 years. He has no intention of hunting on the years he 999's. Why would he need to buy his wildlife certificate?
Is there going to be a section for hunters who only use 999 to increase their draw priority?
Anyone have any info?
Thanks
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08-13-2019, 03:05 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,153
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This is a good change for 95% of Alberta hunters. Your dad is in the not so lucky 5%.
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08-13-2019, 04:29 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Stony Plain, AB
Posts: 528
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The issue is that a significant number of tag winners never buy a tag or a wildlife certificate. About the same % as those who purchase a draw entry and never buy a wildlife certificate. Appears that "anti-hunting" groups consider a $4 expenditure worth wrecking a draw system. This has been an AFGA conference recommendation for some time now, and it is good to see it finally enacted.
Vic
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08-13-2019, 04:49 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: YYC NW
Posts: 12
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Are there really that many anti-hunting groups trying to derail the system? Quickly looking at the draw #'s, the were 121k moose, 104k elk, 142 Mule applications this year alone. It seems the effort would need to be huge to cause a visible disruption. Unless I'm missing something.
I'm genuinely curious.
On the flip side, if anti-hunting groups are buying tags and not using them, wouldn't that just benefit the hunters that do get tags in those areas with reduced pressure and more selection?
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08-13-2019, 05:21 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bawlf, A.B
Posts: 3
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2020 hunting draw changes
I kind of understand what they are trying to do here but i think there's other ways. Why not make it mandatory for draw winners to buy their tags which includes their wildlife certificate for the current hunting season. Impose a system where they can't apply for next years draws if they don't buy their tags from the previous years. This will cut down on the ones who don't buy their successful draw tags.
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08-13-2019, 06:03 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honz
On the flip side, if anti-hunting groups are buying tags and not using them, wouldn't that just benefit the hunters that do get tags in those areas with reduced pressure and more selection?
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This is the problem. The antis get drawn and never purchase the tag or a wildlife certificate. Lost revenue and lost opportunity.
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08-14-2019, 07:18 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Blackfalds AB
Posts: 584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren77
I kind of understand what they are trying to do here but i think there's other ways. Why not make it mandatory for draw winners to buy their tags which includes their wildlife certificate for the current hunting season. Impose a system where they can't apply for next years draws if they don't buy their tags from the previous years. This will cut down on the ones who don't buy their successful draw tags.
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This is how it works in a lot of States. In order to enter a draw you need to provide a CC number ( like we do ) and if you are successful your card is charged the minute the draw is done. ( In some of the high profile spots like the Strip in AZ this is how people know they have been drawn because they watch their CC statements online the day of the draws).
A similar system could easily work here and would avoid a situation like the OP posted. CC needed to apply and pay for draws is charged automatically for any successful draws and a WC the minute you are drawn. If you don't use the tags at that point that's on you.
Hilgy
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08-14-2019, 07:31 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 715
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Cash grab pure and simple. So say all I want to hunt is antelope but yet for 10 years I have to pay more,goverment gets more cash,I lose cash. I get drawn one year and buy everything but cant make it out. Government gets more cash I lose cash by not going out. Animal survives to reproduce more. I buy all my licenses and cant make it out,goverment gets more cash,I lose cash but that opportunity isn't passed on to some one else because I cant make it out.
Government now ups the prices on everything because they are making more cash and are now getting more greedy. An the list goes on and on.
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08-14-2019, 07:45 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icehunter
Cash grab pure and simple. So say all I want to hunt is antelope but yet for 10 years I have to pay more,goverment gets more cash,I lose cash. I get drawn one year and buy everything but cant make it out. Government gets more cash I lose cash by not going out. Animal survives to reproduce more. I buy all my licenses and cant make it out,goverment gets more cash,I lose cash but that opportunity isn't passed on to some one else because I cant make it out.
Government now ups the prices on everything because they are making more cash and are now getting more greedy. An the list goes on and on.
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I suppose that for the people who only hunt one animal and put in for years to get the draw it’s not a good deal. I highly doubt many of those hunters exist.
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08-14-2019, 08:05 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: With my dogs
Posts: 4,545
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Does this apply when a person enters 999? Doesn't bother me either way - I hunt every season even if it's just for birds and Whitetails.
I can see how it might bother those who are only entering one draw and not hunting general seasons; but that has to be a small minority.
__________________
alacringa
"This Brittany is my most cherished possession — the darndest bird-finder I have ever seen, a tough and wiry little dog with a choke-bored nose and the ability to read birds’ minds." -Jack O'Connor
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08-14-2019, 08:28 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 2,140
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Put me down for a yes I am in favor.
IMO, there is no perfect system. If you are 999ing for a future hunt, then that comes at the cost of buying a certificate every year. Is it a cash grab, yes it is. If you don't like the system. then get out of the sport. Personally I spend more on a coffee, than on a certificate, on my way to work.
Over the years, people have gotten out of hunting for numerous reason(s).
You can add this to the list of reasons: shrinking access, gun registration, public grazing land access, OHV vehicles, lack of shooting ranges, cost of tags, lack of tags, butcher shops closing down, cost of fuel, dirty camp-sites, cost of equipment...etc (if you are an AO member you have read them all).
The way it is now is, you have one certificate for all your draw selections. I would HATE to see moving forward, that with every species you are applying for that you have to purchase separate certificate for each one.....It could be worse....!
Everyone has a line in the sand to cross and this 999 line may or not be yours....? I hope not....
Good luck
__________________
Life is like baseball; it is the number of times you reach home safely, that counts.
We have two lives: The life we learn with and the life we live with after that.
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08-14-2019, 09:14 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 279
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Draw applications in Alberta are the cheapest in NA the cost of a certificate is negligible in the big scheme of things don't feel it is unreasonable and hopefully the extra money gets allocated into enhancing our wildlife and opportunities
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08-14-2019, 09:16 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: GRAND PRAIRIE
Posts: 5,720
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I like it and yes I spend more on coffee in one week than I would on a certificate for a draw
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
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08-14-2019, 09:46 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 122
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This does not bother me one bit. I want every single opportunity to get out and hunt, easy excuse to take my shotgun for a walk in the woods if I do not feel like hunting for big game. Get some use out of your skis and snowshoes, the woods are pretty peaceful come December 1st for grouse, rabbit or whatever (doesn’t even have to be a successful harvest on those days). If you are the type that will only desires to hunt a critter that is in draw where you want to go I can see how this additional cost would be frustrating, but the cert is pretty cheap when you amortize that in your monthly or yearly budget.
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08-14-2019, 11:18 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Foothills
Posts: 2,337
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It’s a change in the correct direction.
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08-14-2019, 02:42 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 838
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[QUOTE=jednastka;4014067]The issue is that a significant number of tag winners never buy a tag or a wildlife certificate. About the same % as those who purchase a draw entry and never buy a wildlife certificate. Appears that "anti-hunting" groups consider a $4 expenditure worth wrecking a draw system. This has been an AFGA conference recommendation for some time now, and it is good to see it finally enacted.
Having to buy the wildlife certificate won't stop a thing. That just means it'll cost a little bit more for the anti hunting groups and if you think that this will stop them your a fool!
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08-14-2019, 02:49 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Drumheller
Posts: 2,666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icehunter
Cash grab pure and simple. So say all I want to hunt is antelope but yet for 10 years I have to pay more,goverment gets more cash,I lose cash. I get drawn one year and buy everything but cant make it out. Government gets more cash I lose cash by not going out. Animal survives to reproduce more. I buy all my licenses and cant make it out,goverment gets more cash,I lose cash but that opportunity isn't passed on to some one else because I cant make it out.
Government now ups the prices on everything because they are making more cash and are now getting more greedy. An the list goes on and on.
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LOL cash grab hey. You do realize that this will only effect a very small minority of legit hunters hey. The vast majority of hunters who put in for draws will do some sort of hunting one way or another regardless of their draw success. As for someone who 999's everything. I can totally get on board with not having to pay the wildlife certificate up front right off the bat for those guys. as soon as someone tries for a draw it automatically purchases your certificate. Again, this is far from a cash grab from legit hunters. It is strictly a cash grab from anti hunters and I am cool with that.
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08-14-2019, 02:50 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 379
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[QUOTE=RZR;4014415]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jednastka
The issue is that a significant number of tag winners never buy a tag or a wildlife certificate. About the same % as those who purchase a draw entry and never buy a wildlife certificate. Appears that "anti-hunting" groups consider a $4 expenditure worth wrecking a draw system. This has been an AFGA conference recommendation for some time now, and it is good to see it finally enacted.
Having to buy the wildlife certificate won't stop a thing. That just means it'll cost a little bit more for the anti hunting groups and if you think that this will stop them your a fool!
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And if that is the case isnt having more income towards conservation a win?
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08-14-2019, 03:26 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rocky Mnt House
Posts: 934
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[QUOTE=Jjolg123;4014419]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RZR
And if that is the case isnt having more income towards conservation a win?
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This is a non-starter
True its good if it goes to conservation, but remember when we all told them we would be fine with a increase in price of tags if it went to conservation?
And Shannon Philips raised the price of tags? BUt then we found out the money just went to general revenue.
Regardless, our tags are cheep in the grand scheme of things, in the states it costs hundreds of dollars to draw then automatically charges your card for the cost of the tag, then refunds you if you are not successful.
I think that this is sure the first step in the right direction.
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08-14-2019, 04:21 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_davey
It’s a change in the correct direction.
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x2 agreed.
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08-14-2019, 06:45 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulecrazy
LOL cash grab hey. You do realize that this will only effect a very small minority of legit hunters hey. The vast majority of hunters who put in for draws will do some sort of hunting one way or another regardless of their draw success. As for someone who 999's everything. I can totally get on board with not having to pay the wildlife certificate up front right off the bat for those guys. as soon as someone tries for a draw it automatically purchases your certificate. Again, this is far from a cash grab from legit hunters. It is strictly a cash grab from anti hunters and I am cool with that.
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Strictly a cash grab from anti hunters? OK, you go on believing yourself all you want. I am a legit hunter and only apply for draws and its been that way for 15-20 years now. Have had so much deer meat and ducks,goose etc that I really don't want anymore. In fact I don't want any ducks or geese at all. Deer maybe for burgers but that's about it. But I can run to the store and pick up hamburger easier then getting a deer just for the meat. In total I have been in the field for just about 40 years now.
An if anyone thinks it would stop people from groups like PETA..you need to wake up. They are backed by multi-million dollar corps that will just go "oh well" and continue to pay. The only way it will up the odds is if guys say that they aren't gonna pay upfront for a cert. when they know they wont get drawn..
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08-14-2019, 06:59 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 838
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[QUOTE=leeelmer;4014432]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jjolg123
This is a non-starter
True its good if it goes to conservation, but remember when we all told them we would be fine with a increase in price of tags if it went to conservation?
And Shannon Philips raised the price of tags? BUt then we found out the money just went to general revenue.
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Someone gets it! Yet there are a lot of hypocrites here who believe everything they are told. Here’s what the minions should do. “Believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see”.
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08-14-2019, 09:42 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 9,610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_davey
It’s a change in the correct direction.
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x2
absolutely.
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08-15-2019, 11:11 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 121
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I don't mind the change but it sure stinks in some ways. Hopefully it will be beneficial to most people which I think it will be
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08-16-2019, 05:26 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,906
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Hopefully they make a wildlife certificate double the price and increase tag prices as well.
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08-16-2019, 06:47 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calgarychef
I suppose that for the people who only hunt one animal and put in for years to get the draw it’s not a good deal. I highly doubt many of those hunters exist.
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Maybe they won’t have to wait as long to be drawn if the new system works out.
__________________
Never celebrate till you got your knife stuck in it !
Some times you catch the Big fish, some times you get stuck in Chip
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08-16-2019, 07:15 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,941
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I am fine with this change for the draw process.
Purchasing tags later I think is fine as well. However to deal with unpurchased I would like to see implementation of a process where tags not purchased by a certain date became available for open purchase. This could be either shortly before or shortly after the opening of the general season for that zone.
I know one year I had an injury in September that prevented me from getting out for the rest of the fall. My 936 elk tag would have been available to someone else. Yes I would have lost my priority which is fine but having someone being able to use the tag would have been preferred. I called F&W and there was nothing that could be done.
I see this as a simple fix as well.
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08-21-2019, 10:19 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bawlf, A.B
Posts: 3
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2020 Hunting Draws
Thanks for all the replies on the 2020 draws. I figured there would be a lot of mixed feelings. Moving forward I hope the Government will make some amendments again maybe in 2021.
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08-21-2019, 10:41 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Parkland County, AB
Posts: 4,253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilgy
This is how it works in a lot of States. In order to enter a draw you need to provide a CC number ( like we do ) and if you are successful your card is charged the minute the draw is done. ( In some of the high profile spots like the Strip in AZ this is how people know they have been drawn because they watch their CC statements online the day of the draws).
A similar system could easily work here and would avoid a situation like the OP posted. CC needed to apply and pay for draws is charged automatically for any successful draws and a WC the minute you are drawn. If you don't use the tags at that point that's on you.
Hilgy
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Absolutely ! Where else can you order anything on line without submitting a
Credit Card? It makes no sense at all to do it any other way.
__________________
When applied by competent people with the right intent, common sense goes a long way.
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08-21-2019, 06:46 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,144
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Good idea, I'll hunt drawn or general.
__________________
Former Ford Fan
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