Old School versus new technology!!! Muzzleloaders!!

[180+]

This might stir the pot a little but here go's!! I just got into muzzlleloading this year shooting the ole smokepole!! I even shot a nice whitetail doe!! Trouble is I kinda started a trend with my hunting buddies!! They were sure interested in the new way to hunt but when they bought there "muzzleloaders"these things were no where near what mine is!! All scoped out different ignition system way easier to load etc etc!! where do we draw the line at from old to new ? I have permission on land in southern alberta that has never been rifle hunted!! But I got the ok as long as open sights were used!! My 2 hunting buddies guns are good too 200 plus yards and they shoot pretty well now that they got there loads figured out!! Is it just me but why does everything have too be reinvented!! Davy crockett never had no fancy muzzleoader with a scope errrr maybe he should have!! So what do you guys think?????

meh.....each to their own I say.

[TangoKilo]

as long as it still stuffs from the front who cares!!
Like sheep said, to each their own.

[180+]

but the question is are they the same or different lots of people think that todays muzzleoaders are different!!! It's almost like comparing the 30-30 to the 30/06 to each there own but technology has advanced shooting sports to whole different levels!

Originally Posted by 180+

but the question is are they the same or different lots of people think that todays muzzleoaders are different!!! It's almost like comparing the 30-30 to the 30/06 to each there own but technology has advanced shooting sports to whole different levels!

The same in many ways...different in others......I say who cares....it loads through the round hole in the front and goes boom.

[180+]

not to wander off the main subject but what about bows and crossbows does sheephunter feel the same? Becuse if crossbows were classiffied the same as bows for hunting that would change a bunch of things!!

Originally Posted by 180+

not to wander off the main subject but what about bows and crossbows does sheephunter feel the same? Becuse if crossbows were classiffied the same as bows for hunting that would change a bunch of things!!

Think I'll avoid jumping into that one other than one fundemental difference is that crossbows are mechanically held at draw. But as you said, let's not wander off

All muzzleloaders function basically the same way...powder and bullet in round hole at front and spark in rear....boom.

[180+]

But there is technology that does take the purety out off the sport! So maybe the question should be since the muzzloader is cosidered a "primitive"weapon at what point do still call it that!! As long as technology is still adding to somethings performance is it still primitive??

[BeerSlayer1]

where do we draw the line

As long as muzzleloaders remain single shots hunters will always point out how "handicapped" they are by shooting one as opposed to shooting a rifle with a clip.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by 180+

" . . . Davy crockett never had no fancy muzzleoader with a scope errrr maybe he should have!! So what do you guys think?????"

Ya, I know where yer comin' from. But I guess it's inevitable ... some people just got to turn everything they touch into 'StarTrek', even muzzle loaders!!!

When it comes to ML rifles, I'm a 'traditionalist' myself. But, like you, I have friends who have ML's all tricked-out (bolt, scope, etc.) . They just don't seem to understand what it's all about, and opt for the latest ML techno-fads.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'd suggest you do what I do, and go with what works for you.

Here's an example of some of the many muzzle loaders that are available today . . .



My preferences would be down to the right >

Good Hunting!

TF

[jaylow?]

the new muzzle loaders to me are about equal with any other single shot, and most hunt once a year guys cant out shoot a modern muzzle loader anyways , so they might as well be shooting a $1200.00 ruger single.
to me they dont meet the requirement of primitive hunting, but then again, look at a modern compound bow. within a few years they'll be pre-cocked with a shoulder mount!! evaluation!

[roadkill]

Hm. Interesting question. I never even really thought about muzzleloaders until I saw the Bone Collector. Now I want one.

The way things work with me, if I actually get one, I'll likely go for something more... classical at some point down the line, as well.

[captain]

just wondering who made some of you folks the leading authority on whats right and whats wrong?i was always taught to keep my opinnions to myself unless asked.We are all in this with a great passion.This time i will give an opinnion without being asked,hope i dont get jumped on.For those who like the traditonal ways,no scopes,nofancy ignition systems,no wheels on the bows etc.Do you drive a model T ?,they are traditional.im not saying that this is wrong,what im saying is that new technology is not always bad.I myself have a very modern compound bow.I how ever have a great respect for the stick bow hunters.Many times i hunt with a muzzel loader and a rifle.What part of me is wrong?My thought is as long as the hunter is profiecient with his or her choice of killing instrument ,its all good.heres another thought,maybe we could share some of our wisdom and experiences without the criticisum.I can only imagine what new or younger hunters think and how confused they must get with some of these posts.This is a great forum and great folks with a lot to share.THANKS for the vent.

[Big Daddy Morton]

When it comes to smokepoles the real issue is what are used for sights. My uncles old style gun will shoot the same groups at 80 yards (which is a what muzzleloaders are supposed to be made for) as my Knight will...but this is with open sights not a Leupold. If i took his gun and drilled it for a scope it would with the right load shoot just as far as my knight can...maybe better due to the longer barrel and set trigger!!!

I can just about gaurantee that if you took the scopes off of everyones rifles the success rates would drop dramatically, no matter if it was a 30-30 or a 30-378...its really not about the gun at all, its the scope IMO.

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by captain

just wondering who made some of you folks the leading authority on whats right and whats wrong?i was always taught to keep my opinnions to myself unless asked.

Whooaaa there Cappy.....time for a coffee me thinks. I think the OP was asking for opinions......you're allowed to chuck em' on the fire here

Agree with ya on the fact that bowhunters need to get along with others as well as amongst themselves

I don't agree with ya about the muzzleloaders though. Use the new ones during rifle season if ya want but "primitive" to me means old school in this case. A couple years ago I watched guy dump a bou at 380+ with an in-line...he was drilling pie plates at 300.

tm

[calgarychef]

Capt. please keep your opinions to yourself. Unless that is of course you want to have a discussion-this is a discussion board after all and we're here to hear others opinions even if they aren't directly asked.

I shoot a traditional underhammer and it's a fine gun for deer etc. I've been drawn for the 212 late season hunt and I'd give a lot to have a moderm muzzleloader right now. It's a real hard go and the closest I got yesterday was 150 yards after a 2 hour stalk. It was fun to stalk the whole herd like that but not a chance in hell of getting within the 60 yards that I need with the traditional gun. For this king of thing I'd even be willing to use a smokless ultra modern style of muzzleloader. Then for deer season I'd be right back with the "real" smokepole.

the chef

[pitw]

I really enjoy this topic . When someone with several thousand posts says "each to their own", I gotta chuckle.
When I hunt with a muzzle loader you can be sure it's over 150 years old or dang sure looks like it is.
The popular rise in muzzle loaders comes from the fact that there are new seasons for them[some are called primitive weapon season, which couldn't be further from the truth] and were set up with good intentions. Some people being what they are[basically corrupt or lazy] took it upon themselves to make it easier to kill with technology.
Some think hunting should be done with all the wizardry at there command and others like to make hunting a personal adventure.
I don't like the idea of a muzzle loader using modern technology to make it perform as good as a center fire rifle anymore than the original poster[see I can really type out the whole thing] but the great thing about them is maybe, just maybe they'll fill their tag in the first five minutes of season and then be out of my road as I wander about doing my best Kit Carson impersonation.
Some people like the satisfaction of taking an animal[or at least the attempting of it] with traditional gear and some like to make it as easy as possible on themselves.

I really enjoy this topic . When someone with several thousand posts says "each to their own", I gotta chuckle.

I'm sure a couple thousand of those posts are likely in response to people trying to shove their ethics down my throat and telling me what a lazy slob I am for my choice of weapon......

I say again...each to their own....

[pitw]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'm sure a couple thousand of those posts are likely in response to people trying to shove their ethics down my throat and telling me what a lazy slob I am for my choice of weapon......

I say again...each to their own....

I don't recall saying that "sheephunter" is a lazy slob but if that's what you feel then far be it from me to try and change your mind.

Originally Posted by pitw

I don't recall saying that "sheephunter" is a lazy slob

And I never said that you said that now did I?

You're really looking for a fight today aren't you? If you're just going to put words in my mouth, I think I'll bow gracefully out and let you concentrate on sheepguide. I'd hate to get my post count any higher.....

[aulrich]

Now my Knight American is only a tad more effective than my TC renegade was and that is really to do with the scope, put a good peep sight on the TC and they would be just about equal. Mind you the main parts of the gun are all the same but arranged differnetly. The newer guns to take it a far bit further but that has to do with 50 grains more powder and pointed bullets.

I guess the modern muzzle loader is the reason there are some areas (down south) that now include breechloading exposed hammer single shots over 38 caliber a primitive enough.

If the heard can take the pressure and the guys will buy the tags why not.

Purists are by deffinition snobs where part of the pleasure is to look down on others who are not as manly as them.

[captain]

hey tundra,i think we are of the same view.Im not trying to get sepparate seasons.The only point im trying to makeis that we shouldnt condem any hunter for his or her choice of poison.

[captain]

hey chef,i have a 209 50 that i would be happy to loan you to finish off that elk.pm me

[Tundra Monkey]

Hey Cap .......I agree.....we all gotta get along

I don't mind the idea of having separate muzzleloader seasons but I do feel that they should be limited to "handicapped" weapons.....ie) no glass and limited range. Those new ones are more capable at longer ranges than a lot of centrefires. Use em' during rifle season and all is good IMO.


tm

[180+]

With some of these opinions stated it is quite amusing to see that there is indeed a separation of opinion!! I think ánd this is my opinion that the true muzzleloader should indeed stay at what it was 100 years ago and be left at that!! For all the rest " I will use this word loosely" hybrids, sheephunter is right to each there own!!! But when one classifies something as "primitive"at what point is any further advancement change it's category!! That my friends should have been the original question!! So should todays muzzleloaders that have 250 yard ranges be in the same category "well let's hear some opinions!!

[pitw]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

And I never said that you said that now did I?

Kinda/sorta.

Originally Posted by sheephunter

You're really looking for a fight today aren't you?

Nope. If I was I'd a told the wife her new hair coloring scheme reminds me of a Bobcat

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I think I'll bow gracefully out and let you concentrate on sheepguide.

Now I'm assuming cause you probably didn't say it that sheepguide and I are fighting, dang i missed that one too. Nice of you to bow out and let someone else pick up your slack.
Now if I'm not mistaken the original poster of this thread asked for opinions. That I gave and then if I'm not mistaken you brought ethics into the equation. Did you know that at one time beating women was ethically acceptable and probably still would be if other people hadn't stated their opinions on the subject. What I'm saying is that not all opinions are going to fit what a person believes but that those opinions can still be stated.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by BeerSlayer1

As long as muzzleloaders remain single shots hunters will always point out how "handicapped" they are by shooting one as opposed to shooting a rifle with a clip.

Some hunters do, this was doesn't.
I never considered myself handicapped by shooting either a single shot modern rifle, a flinter or caplock rifle, or for that matter one of my SXS muzzle loading shotguns.
Slower to reload , mind you, but that's it.
I hunt with that stuff because I like it.

Cat

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

i guess thats why they call them modern day muzzle loaders , and for that matters
one could always get a gibbs or a whitworth henry(which were both used as snipers rifles in the war of independance against england ,and in the cival war1000 yrd shots were not uncommon wth either) and out shoot the modern day in lines,
http://www.johno.myiglou.com/whitworth.htm
Davide Pedersoli Gibbs Rifle : Cabela's

Originally Posted by pitw

Kinda/sorta.



Nope. If I was I'd a told the wife her new hair coloring scheme reminds me of a Bobcat




Now I'm assuming cause you probably didn't say it that sheepguide and I are fighting, dang i missed that one too. Nice of you to bow out and let someone else pick up your slack.
Now if I'm not mistaken the original poster of this thread asked for opinions. That I gave and then if I'm not mistaken you brought ethics into the equation. Did you know that at one time beating women was ethically acceptable and probably still would be if other people hadn't stated their opinions on the subject. What I'm saying is that not all opinions are going to fit what a person believes but that those opinions can still be stated.

Are you related to elkhunter11...

[aulrich]

Yup a good vernier sight, a range finder and lots of practice, but very doable.

Now correct me if I am wrong the difference between my Knight American and the high performance ones is closed ignition, so they could make use of the extra 50 gains of BP or the pressures of smokless.