EV Experience

[10aciousB]

I'm getting close to replacing my tired old commuter car and am seriously considering replacing with an EV (Nissan Leaf or similar). I'm curious if anyone here is an an EV owner and what your experiences have been good or bad. Not looking to get into the politics or opinion, just experience. This is entirely a financial decision. I have a 145km commute 4 days/week, and the cost of driving is 1/3-1/4 that of a comparable i/c powered car, and that doesn't include oil changes etc. I'm 90% sold, however my biggest concern is cold weather range and battery degradation.

[urban rednek]

I have a 145km commute 4 days/week, my biggest concern is cold weather range and battery degradation.

If you can charge the vehicle at work during the cold weather you should be well within the range capabilities of newer EVs even on the coldest days.
Curious to hear the experiences of local owners.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by 10aciousB

. . . however my biggest concern is cold weather range and battery degradation.

Two very good concerns 👆 ... especially battery degradation. From what I understand, most of the batteries are good for ~ 150Km, and then they have to be replaced. And from what I've been able to find out, the cost could be over $10K ❗

My biggest beef though with EV's, is that they are still Way Overpriced for what you get. Best example right now is the Hyundai Kona ...

- 'Gas' Kona base price: ~ $22K
- 'EV' Kona base price: ~ $45+K

I'm guessing there will be an EV in my garage one day ... but not any time soon. Their prices are too much of a ripoff right now.

Selkirk

[Ken07AOVette]

An old guy here has had EV's since they came out. Drives it daily. Not an issue at all in cold weather, had instant heat and great range. The next truck I buy will be an electric or hybrid for DD.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

[INDENT] - 'Gas' Kona base price: ~ $22K
- 'EV' Kona base price: ~ $45+K

100% agree..

but you also have to compare apples to apples, if you add your gas $ into your gas kona price, your payments for an EV are pretty close to the gas + ICE vehicle.

(I don't agree with it, but that seems to be a common theme).

Not to mention it's the first round of EV's, so you are paying for tech development.

[Rdamours]

I'm waiting for battery technology changes which should be in production in the next two years. Tesla bought a company in Ontario that specializes in battery production technology and Maxwell Technologies for new battery technology so they will make there own new high capacity fast charging batteries. 400 miles or so per charge.

I will look in 5 years to replace the wife's car.

[jcrayford]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

100% agree..

but you also have to compare apples to apples, if you add your gas $ into your gas kona price, your payments for an EV are pretty close to the gas + ICE vehicle.

(I don't agree with it, but that seems to be a common theme).

Not to mention it's the first round of EV's, so you are paying for tech development.

Not sure I completely agree with this statement JB.

I'll give you a real life example. My ICE 2015 Jeep Wrangler averages about $40 per week for fuel at today's prices (mind you, these would fluctuate). At the price of $40 per week, over 52 weeks in a year (again, just daily driving) that total cost per year is $2080. For that extra $20K, I can afford to fuel my ICE for about 10 years of daily driving (again, making the assumption that fuel prices do not go crazy - the price today isn't much different than 10 years ago however) In the same breath, will those EV batteries need replacing within said 10 years? I would tend to think so given current battery technology and development.

And with my ICE, I can do the extended 900 km trips in a single day without having to worry about sitting for 6 hours on a recharge.

EV will become mainstream IF the manufactures can come to an agreement about battery size/placement. When this happens, an EV will simply pull up to a "service station" and pop the trunk and pull out the depleted battery and drop in a freshly charged one and you're on your way. But until this happens, long trips of any kind are out of the question which leads ICE to be around for a long time yet.

J.

[bobtodrick]

Another thing to consider. When you want to get rid of the Kona, if it has many miles on it the first thing the buyer is going to ask for is proof that you've done a battery replacement within a reasonable time period.
If you haven't be prepared for them to ask for a huge reduction on what you'd like to get for it. They're not going to chance a $10K hit for batteries a year down the road.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Rdamours

I'm waiting for battery technology changes which should be in production in the next two years. Tesla bought a company in Ontario that specializes in battery production technology and Maxwell Technologies for new battery technology so they will make there own new high capacity fast charging batteries. 400 miles or so per charge.

I will look in 5 years to replace the wife's car.

Some are claiming 600+ miles now, no?

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by jcrayford

Not sure I completely agree with this statement JB.

I'll give you a real life example. My ICE 2015 Jeep Wrangler averages about $40 per week for fuel at today's prices (mind you, these would fluctuate). At the price of $40 per week, over 52 weeks in a year (again, just daily driving) that total cost per year is $2080. For that extra $20K, I can afford to fuel my ICE for about 10 years of daily driving (again, making the assumption that fuel prices do not go crazy - the price today isn't much different than 10 years ago however) In the same breath, will those EV batteries need replacing within said 10 years? I would tend to think so given current battery technology and development.

Maybe I missed something (not enough coffee)..

If you look at pricing for a Model 3 and compare it to a 3 series (which is the market tesla is going for). The tesla starts to make sense. But that's a +$50g car. If you add in the gas used, it definitely does.

Battery life seems to be hit and miss. Tesla seems to have been performing better than others. I know there's lots of miled out leafs sitting around with depleted batteries.

There's already a company that has produced the tech to "quick" charge any electric car in 10mins, and that's a full charge, not partial like current systems.

It's coming sooner than we think.

I think the only place you'll see quick swappable batteries is in semis/construction vehicles.

[tool]

Keep an eye on the Tesla technology and watch out for the new Lithium Carbon Dioxide batteries.

Like it or not this technology is coming and they are pretty amazing machines.
Tesla has vehicles with 1,000 km range and Ferrari crushing performance.

There is a new revolution.

[doublehaul]

My co-worker has a Chevy Volt PHEV

You should do lots of research on your options

In winter the engine runs most of the time and uses supreme

We believe either get battery power or gas power
Not both together , because it adds too much technology and repairs will be very expensive

The lithium batteries can be a lot different from one manufacturer to another

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by tool

Tesla has vehicles with 1,000 km range.......

Which one? News to me that they do.

[doublehaul]

My co-worker has a Chevy Volt PHEV

You should do lots of research on your options

In winter the engine runs most of the time and uses supreme

We believe either get battery power or gas power
Not both together , because it adds too much technology and repairs will be very expensive

The lithium batteries can be a lot different from one manufacturer to another

The distance that the battery will get you will be dramatically reduced in cold weather about-15c and colder

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by doublehaul

The distance that the battery will get you will be dramatically reduced in cold weather about-15c and colder

From what I've seen, it's about 40% reduction, but there are many variables.

ex. Parked outside? plugged in? pre-warming? etc.

I'd be curious to see the difference in range of an EV in Alaska vs an EV in Arizona. Ie, Air condition vs heating. Not to mention the ambient temp., that much heat can't be good for the vehicle. I'm sure they've done their research, but never thought of that before. Everyone always talks about cold weather issues.

[thing]

The difference in price is hard to justify.

There are many fuel efficient cars out there. My wifes AWD 2018 Mini easily gets 900km (could hit a 1000 if we tried) on a 60 liter tank of fuel on the highway. 700+ in the city.

My parents bought a Hyundai Elantra Hybrid to drive back and forth to the US and back. 60 liter tank....they are upwards of 1100 km....crazy.

If I was going to go EV, I'd get a Tesla 3. As mentioned above they are 50K but competing with other 50k gas vehicles. Now if the made the same Tesla 3 that was gas powered and $32000...buying a 50K electric one wouldn't appeal to me either.

What does it cost for the power to charge the battery at home?

If you really want a EV vehicle, lease one. You're only committed for 2 or 3 years. Its under warranty and won't have to deal with battery replacement.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Which one? News to me that they do.

LMGTFY

https://www.tesla.com/roadster

[Dean2]

Never driven a true EV. Only electrics I have driven were Hybrid Toyotas that were fleet vehicles. Can't say I cared for the Hybrids for a bunch of reasons but interested to see what actual owners think of true EVs.

[doublehaul]

The cost of electricity is approximately 1-2$ per 50 km
This will vary depending on where you live electricity plus delivery

The other cost is the 240 volt charger if you buy it to reduce your charge time
It’s about 600-800$ plus installation

Remember that the battery will / may need to heat the interior also

[NCC]

How much does it cost to charge a vehicle? I can’t imagine that it’s free.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

LMGTFY

https://www.tesla.com/roadster

I thought he meant one you could actually buy, not a $257k developmental car.

[Trochu]

Ford Mustang Mach-E looks promising, no word on Cdn MSRP though and vague release dates.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I thought he meant one you could actually buy, not a $257k developmental car.

yet.

(even though I hate Elon), he has managed to follow thru on most of his concepts, and this one is very close to release.

Rivian has a range of 400miles, which really isn't that far off, and not to mention this is their first stab at it, I imagine telsa has been working hard for years on the 1000km range.

And in all fairness.. He said "tesla has", so it is probably correct, lots of roadster sightings.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

LMGTFY

https://www.tesla.com/roadster

2020 Roadster is still a prototype at this point. However, if you want to wait for it to be released, Elon is more that happy to take a $50k US deposit. The Tesla pickup is supposed to have a pretty impressive range, however we'll have to wait a couple of days for the reveal.

I have a couple of friends that drive Tesla vehicles, one being a Model S, the other a Model X. Pretty cool cars to ride in, but way too pricey for this guy.

Both seem to like them for their intended use (luxury vehicle).

Model X is driven daily by friends wife, and she really likes it.

Model S is a summer driver, but owner is anxiously anticipating the new truck. Says he'll purchase one if the specs/price are close to the hype.

I have another friend who's wife drives a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. She seems to like it as well, but I've not ridden in it or know the cost.

[Selkirk]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Ford Mustang Mach-E looks promising, no word on Cdn MSRP though and vague release dates.

They haven't started production yet, but the first deliveries in the US are expected in about a year from now. Base version expected to cost ~ $44K USD. Can't believe they're referring to it as an 'SUV'

More details 👉 https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/19/must...ctric-suv.html

And No, I wouldn't be interested in one ... I got better places to put my hard-earned money.

Selkirk

[10aciousB]

Originally Posted by Rdamours

I'm waiting for battery technology changes which should be in production in the next two years. Tesla bought a company in Ontario that specializes in battery production technology and Maxwell Technologies for new battery technology so they will make there own new high capacity fast charging batteries. 400 miles or so per charge.

I will look in 5 years to replace the wife's car.

Yeah I've heard about solid state battery technology being approx 2-5 years from being commercially viable in cars. If so, that would be a game changer. >1,000km ranges, 5 minute charging, 20,000 charging cycles before any performance degradation (~60yr life), and no performance/range loss in cold weather.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

100% agree..

but you also have to compare apples to apples, if you add your gas $ into your gas kona price, your payments for an EV are pretty close to the gas + ICE vehicle.

(I don't agree with it, but that seems to be a common theme).

Not to mention it's the first round of EV's, so you are paying for tech development.

If you are comparing apples to apples, why aren't you adding in electricity $ into your equation? And I can't wait for the gouvernment to decide that road taxes need to be applied to our electricity bills. Maybe we will get 'dyed' electrons for use in our homes

ARG

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by 10aciousB

Yeah I've heard about solid state battery technology being approx 2-5 years from being commercially viable in cars. If so, that would be a game changer. >1,000km ranges, 5 minute charging, 20,000 charging cycles before any performance degradation (~60yr life), and no performance/range loss in cold weather.

1000km charge in 5 min. What are they charging that with, a lightening bolt?

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

They haven't started production yet, but the first deliveries in the US are expected in about a year from now. Base version expected to cost ~ $44K USD. Can't believe they're referring to it as an 'SUV'

More details 👉 https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/19/must...ctric-suv.html

And No, I wouldn't be interested in one ... I got better places to put my hard-earned money.

Selkirk

That's the thing though, US MSRP and out the door Cdn price have no linear relevance. For example, the MSRP for the 2019 Ecosport as per Ford.ca is $18,849.00 Cdn. South of the border, it's $19,995.00 US. Here, the Edge is $36,299.00, down south, $31,100.00. Secondly, MSRP and out the door price are usually vastly different. It's not hard to find Ford SUV's several thousand below MSRP. So while the MSRP could be $44k USD, it's very possible you could get one for $40K Cdn.

I'm fine with them calling it a SUV, I'm disappointed they called it a Mustang.

[Okotok]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

1000km charge in 5 min. What are they charging that with, a lightening bolt?

I'd buy one of those. Do they come with a unicorn?