Value of annealing

[heretohunt]

I have some 7-08 lapua brass that I can assume is at least at mid life. 5 or more uses. I’ve never annealed but I’m thinking since there will be no more available for a for a while and I have great loads for it plus I love that rifle, I should consider it. Also doing it with a torch, socket, and drill is good or ineffective? I know some of you folks have some whiz bang units that you’re itching to use. Is there a reasonably priced annealing service that makes sense?
I have some 243 brass that I’m questioning the remaining lifespan. Am I too late or is annealing a rebirth?

[teledogs]

https://nechakooutdoors.ca/annealing

[catnthehat]

Te general consesus that I have heard over years (even before annealing was popular)either anneal every lpading sequence or don't anneal at all.
Cat

[DLab]

Annealing extends your brass life, keeps your necks from splitting, gives more consistent seating pressures.
A torch, socket, drill setup CAN work, the trick is having a drill that has a slow enough speed so that the brass isn't cooling while it's spinning taking more time to reach the temp/ dwell time required without over heating the case body.
Also without some kind of timer it's difficult to keep the amount of annealing consistent case to case.

I recommend this setup if you're going to do it.
https://agscustomparts.com/product/a...-annealer-2-0/

If your handy this build is on youtube, built 2 of these myself.

[Cageyc]

I went with the salt bath annealing method.
#1. No open flame
#2 cost and safety.

Ballistics recreations in Edmonton sells these simple and effective units.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Te general consesus that I have heard over years (even before annealing was popular)either anneal every lpading sequence or don't anneal at all.
Cat

This is probably the best advice.


I’d also think twice about salt bath annealing.

[no-regard]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

This is probably the best advice.


I’d also think twice about salt bath annealing.

For what reason?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by no-regard

For what reason?

https://www.ampannealing.com/article...does-it-work-/

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

https://www.ampannealing.com/article...does-it-work-/

Changes the color of the brass but downs actually Anneal it

[Pathfinder76]

Not only that, but softens it in the wrong places.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Changes the color of the brass but downs actually Anneal it

Doesnt

[Smokinyotes]

I have never annealed. Does annealing double, triple or how much does it improve the life of your brass. The last few years I’ve only been shooting about 1000-1500 rounds a year. Is it worth while for me to buy a amp annealer, will I ever see a pay back or am I just better off buying new brass?

[Douglas N]

Originally Posted by DLab

Annealing extends your brass life, keeps your necks from splitting, gives more consistent seating pressures.
A torch, socket, drill setup CAN work, the trick is having a drill that has a slow enough speed so that the brass isn't cooling while it's spinning taking more time to reach the temp/ dwell time required without over heating the case body.
Also without some kind of timer it's difficult to keep the amount of annealing consistent case to case.

I recommend this setup if you're going to do it.
https://agscustomparts.com/product/a...-annealer-2-0/

If your handy this build is on youtube, built 2 of these myself.

Do you know if AGS ships out of Canada or the USA?

[DLab]

Originally Posted by Douglas N

Do you know if AGS ships out of Canada or the USA?

Neither, I think it's actually Serbia? Having said that I have 2 buddies using this annealer, shipping was fast and economical, it is a very well built product, his email comms are excellent, both guys are very satisfied/happy.
It was just under $300.00CDN. to their door if I remember correctly for version 1.0, so version 2.0 may be slighter more $.

They both built a wood riser base, now AGS supplies a riser kit.
If you Google search this product I'm sure you will find enough good reviews to be confident.
I wouldn't recommend it otherwise, I know people that have bought pretty much every annealer in this price range. IMO the AGS is very good for the price.
I just sold the one in the pic, my third home built version, I'm going a different direction.

[teledogs]

AGS has a version 3.0 that is built taller so you dont need the extension riser

https://agscustomparts.com/product/a...ss-annealer-3/

[Douglas N]

Originally Posted by DLab

Neither, I think it's actually Serbia? Having said that I have 2 buddies using this annealer, shipping was fast and economical, it is a very well built product, his email comms are excellent, both guys are very satisfied/happy.
It was just under $300.00CDN. to their door if I remember correctly for version 1.0, so version 2.0 may be slighter more $.

They both built a wood riser base, now AGS supplies a riser kit.
If you Google search this product I'm sure you will find enough good reviews to be confident.
I wouldn't recommend it otherwise, I know people that have bought pretty much every annealer in this price range. IMO the AGS is very good for the price.
I just sold the one in the pic, my third home built version, I'm going a different direction.

Thanks. I think I’ll order one. I was trying to establish the currency and shipping costs.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

I have never annealed. Does annealing double, triple or how much does it improve the life of your brass. The last few years I’ve only been shooting about 1000-1500 rounds a year. Is it worth while for me to buy a amp annealer, will I ever see a pay back or am I just better off buying new brass?

I’m just getting started so this is what I’ve read during research, not done.

Seems like it depends on your cartridge of choice, case prep, and expectations.

Ex if you are running a hunting rifle in belted mags, upper end loads, and FL sizing, brass life is limited by what happens around the belt and head, and won’t be helped much by annealing. It may or may not help accuracy.

If you have a min spec chambered target/BR gun, use high end brass, neck size only, turn necks, chase lands etc etc etc then yes it will help brass life as the point of highest stress is the neck.

The guys who do the target prep will probably do it on all their brass regardless of end use and say it helps, which it might, but probably not enough to invest the time and money if you aren’t going that road. Diminishing returns vs new brass

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 3blade

I’m just getting started so this is what I’ve read during research, not done.

Seems like it depends on your cartridge of choice, case prep, and expectations.

Ex if you are running a hunting rifle in belted mags, upper end loads, and FL sizing, brass life is limited by what happens around the belt and head, and won’t be helped much by annealing. It may or may not help accuracy.

If you have a min spec chambered target/BR gun, use high end brass, neck size only, turn necks, chase lands etc etc etc then yes it will help brass life as the point of highest stress is the neck.

The guys who do the target prep will probably do it on all their brass regardless of end use and say it helps, which it might, but probably not enough to invest the time and money if you aren’t going that road. Diminishing returns vs new brass

If anything, annealing has more benefit to FL sizing. Not sure what belts have to do with it either. Case life is just a part of the benefits of annealing.

[MOAhunter]

I never annealed until I had some really bad groups from an otherwise very accurate rifle.
I was shooting handloads from my 7mm-08 with 3Xfired Hornady brass. The groups were 2" at 100 which I consider unacceptable. New Nosler brass got the groups to under a half inch again. Now I anneal everytime I reload and there is no loss of accuracy.
Annealing restores the soft springy characteristics of the brass and helps the neck form more uniformly in the die.
All resulting in more consistent sealing and neck tension.
Quality brass like Lapua, ADG and Nosler may hold acceptable accuracy for 10 reloads or more without annealing, but why guess?
With the price and scarcity of reloading supplies nowadays, I want maximum brass life and performance.
As far as annealing "everytime or never at all", this doesn't make any sense to me.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by MOAhunter

As far as annealing "everytime or never at all", this doesn't make any sense to me.

Consistency. Unless you are doing the same thing every time you won’t have consistency.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

If anything, annealing has more benefit to FL sizing. Not sure what belts have to do with it either. Case life is just a part of the benefits of annealing.

If I’m junking the brass after 3-5 firings to avoid case head separation, would annealing really make any difference?

FL size - because I’m already getting good groups and want the reload cycle speed and option to use in different guns. Brass is going to experience stress at the belt - where annealing won’t touch it. So limited brass life is a fact of life, no?

Asking not implying. I don’t know for certain

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 3blade

If I’m junking the brass after 3-5 firings to avoid case head separation, would annealing really make any difference?

FL size - because I’m already getting good groups and want the reload cycle speed and option to use in different guns. Brass is going to experience stress at the belt - where annealing won’t touch it. So limited brass life is a fact of life, no?

Asking not implying. I don’t know for certain

That’s a sizing issue that needs work.

[teledogs]

I ordered an AGS version 1.0 with the riser and extra torch holder today. Came to $352 Cdn shipped.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by MOAhunter

As far as annealing "everytime or never at all", this doesn't make any sense to me.

I have been a fullbore match shooter, hand loader and wildcatter since the mid 60's , andclearnrd from a proffesional .
The only time we anneal brass is doing a sizing process when forming wildcat cases , or something like 577 Snidelr from 24 gauge brass.
Otherwise , I don't worry about it , and my case life and accuracy do not suffer
Cat

[6MT]

Annealing value…?

Case life
Consistent neck tension




and I think the discolouration from oxidization looks cool on bottle neck cases.

[DLab]

Originally Posted by 3blade

If I’m junking the brass after 3-5 firings to avoid case head separation, would annealing really make any difference?

FL size - because I’m already getting good groups and want the reload cycle speed and option to use in different guns. Brass is going to experience stress at the belt - where annealing won’t touch it. So limited brass life is a fact of life, no?

Asking not implying. I don’t know for certain

Yeah, I agree with Pathfinder, likely bumping the shoulders back too much inducing excessive head space and unnecessary case stretch/stress when fired, annealing won't help that issue.
Sizing die adjustment needed I would think.

[Smokinyotes]

For the price of a AMP annealer you can buy a lot of brass. If I’m only shooting 1000-1500 rounds a year through half a dozen different rifles it will take a significant amount of time to see any payback based just on brass life.

[DLab]

Originally Posted by 3blade

I’m just getting started so this is what I’ve read during research, not done.

Seems like it depends on your cartridge of choice, case prep, and expectations.

Ex if you are running a hunting rifle in belted mags, upper end loads, and FL sizing, brass life is limited by what happens around the belt and head, and won’t be helped much by annealing. It may or may not help accuracy.

If you have a min spec chambered target/BR gun, use high end brass, neck size only, turn necks, chase lands etc etc etc then yes it will help brass life as the point of highest stress is the neck.

The guys who do the target prep will probably do it on all their brass regardless of end use and say it helps, which it might, but probably not enough to invest the time and money if you aren’t going that road. Diminishing returns vs new brass

People who do serious target shooting using custom rifle/chambers always FLS usually using bushing dies, no one neck sizes only as it does not produce the consistency required, neck turning, chasing lands has nothing to do with it, they do what's required in that particular rifle to win.

Having said that I know that some SR Group BR guys will take a number of cases to a shoot, fire them 12-15 times over a weekend then trash them, no annealing, as they don't have time between relays, they're too busy reloading rounds for the next relay.

[Cheyenne 1]

Originally Posted by 3blade

If I’m junking the brass after 3-5 firings to avoid case head separation, would annealing really make any difference?

FL size - because I’m already getting good groups and want the reload cycle speed and option to use in different guns. Brass is going to experience stress at the belt - where annealing won’t touch it. So limited brass life is a fact of life, no?

Asking not implying. I don’t know for certain

If your having case head separations you are pushing your shoulder back to far. One of the most important things on sizing brass is measuring it.
The proper tools to measure a fired case and measure after you size it is more critical than anything.
Stripping the bolt and finding how far you need to size your brass so the bolt closes easy, and taking this measurement and using it.
Annealing your brass make the shoulder bump more consistent as the brass will not spring back.
I anneal my brass on my Fclass guns for consistency. I want every round to be as close to the same as possible.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

For the price of a AMP annealer you can buy a lot of brass. If I’m only shooting 1000-1500 rounds a year through half a dozen different rifles it will take a significant amount of time to see any payback based just on brass life.

Agreed.