Wab is dead

[cube]

Originally Posted by ROA

So it's just a coincidence that Wab has always had big fish as far back as I can remember? I think the power plants had everything to do with it.

Iv been working with a bunch of guys from the US that fish power plant lakes. According to them every lake with warm discharge into it produces bigger fish. The guy that fishes tournaments said it's 100% true on every plant lake he has ever fished. I don't see why Wab would be any different, and guess what it isn't....so there must be something to it. That many big pike that close to the city? Come on what are the chances? My average pike in Wab were better than any other lake I have ever fished in Alberta including remote lakes.

Now that there is no more warm water I would expect Wab fish size to start to go down hill over the years no matter what fishing regulations are in place. I will ask the tournament guy from the US if he has ever seen this happen before, he might have as he has fished 100's of lakes.

I would be interested in hearing his comments.

Just remember to tell him how big Wab is and how only one relatively small cooling effluent is at the far end of the lake.

You would think that Boundary Lake in Sask should have Lots of large pike then.

[EZM]

If enough warm water creates added habitat, food etc... for pike then it would yield some positive effects.

The question is, that can't be answered precisely, what effect, if any, did the warm water discharge have on average sizes of the pike.

It's hard to say, but I'd say the impacts would be insignificant, but again, that's just my thoughts anyways.

I am much more compelled to believe the added walleye have impacted the size of the pike due to competition for food. Less food, absolutely, without a doubt, impacts growth rates.

As Cube mentioned, the competition of the walleye for food far outweighs the small walleyes themselves as a food source. This is well documented and can be seen in a number of these "experiments" here in Alberta.

I am shocked how in the last 3 years, a walleye goes from a rare, almost mythical creature to a common and abundant new fish in the lake. Absolutely shocked.

I also agree Wabamun's average size is (was) far better than many remote lakes I've fished. Catching a dozen pike, all in one day, between 7-15 pounds is (was) tough to beat.

Open up the walleye season and take some pressure off the trophy pike fishery we are ruining !!!!!! That's my 2 cents.

[Jamie Black R/T]

Ive always wondered if the warm water had anything to do with the abundance of forage in that lake.

I remember seeing full on bait balls on the sonar in year passed and being a little confused as to what i was looking at as I hadnt seen that elsewhere.

Always seemed to be an awesome food base in that lake. The walleye should take care of that in short order.

[huntsfurfish]

what were the avg temperatures of the lake then and now? That might shed some light on the issue.

[FlyTheory]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

what were the avg temperatures of the lake then and now? That might shed some light on the issue.

Like ezm said, its probably due to the 5,211,043 walleye stocked. Although I'm sure there was at least a 20% transport mortality, it takes a ton of food to feed that many fry, especially when there is a niche overlap. Once again I agree with ezm; open up the lake for walleye, it'll be cleaned out in probably a month and the competitive release will allow the pike to flourish once again.

[RavYak]

I have no doubts that the walleye have hurt things, the pike were already skinny before they put the walleye in and now there are walleye everywhere...

Still a fun lake to go to and catch 50+ fish in a day but I think the trophies will be fewer and farther between.

[Talking moose]

Think it might be a little early for those little walleye to be affecting the big hens, the big ones feed on whitefish mainly don't they? Can't see to many 13" walleye eating whitefish and suckers..... If anything those big hens are eating all those 13" walleye too...

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Think it might be a little early for those little walleye to be affecting the big hens, the big ones feed on whitefish mainly don't they? Can't see to many 13" walleye eating whitefish and suckers..... If anything those big hens are eating all those 13" walleye too...

The problem is not so much the big hens but rather the replacements for the big hens. My belief is that the big hens have been dying off from old age/poor handling and between a lack of food and also over fishing/handling that the younger fish aren't growing up to replace the big ones.

[Talking moose]

Another thing to consider is strong year classes... When the big ones die off, and if the generations before didn't have strong year classes( very successful spawn ) for a few years, there is going to be a size gap with not very many big fish until the next strong year class hits...

[huntsfurfish]

And fishing pressure.

The talk of large pike on a message board draws lots of attention as well. Not all have good fish handling skills.

Or what if it is a combination of all that was mentioned so far?

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Or what if it is a combination of all that was mentioned so far?

More than likely a combination of things piling up.

[cube]

Originally Posted by FlyTheory

Like ezm said, its probably due to the 5,211,043 walleye stocked. Although I'm sure there was at least a 20% transport mortality, it takes a ton of food to feed that many fry, especially when there is a niche overlap. Once again I agree with ezm; open up the lake for walleye, it'll be cleaned out in probably a month and the competitive release will allow the pike to flourish once again.

It's now over 11.7 Million walleye stocked into Wab.

[FlyTheory]

Originally Posted by cube

It's now over 11.7 Million walleye stocked into Wab.

Damn. That's a lot of fish...

[Mike_W]

For how many "DEAD" lakes you seem to find... I am pretty sure you are just a bad fisherman

[fluxcore]

Could it be the spill affecting the older fish that were present for it and shortend their lifespan due to toxicity

[muzzy]

I hear all this talk about walleye ruining pike fishery Then explain how the lakes of northern Sask and manitoba are full of both pike and walleye and both are doing fine. Pike eat walleye walleye eat pike. And its not that walleye are an introduced species in Wab, they were proliferant 30 years back.
Personally I think the decline of big pike in wab is self inflicted by the explosion of fisherman on wab in past 8 years and the reason is all those photo's of everyone grinning holding up those big 20 pound pike. Try holding your breath for 3 to 5 minutes and see if you live! better yet strip down soak yourself in water and stand out in the minus 20 degree weather while holding your breath while waiting for the photo shoot. wonder how you would fare??? Its all the handing, fumbling to get camera's,taking the time for the photo shoots, oh lets get little johnny a pic holding the fish, all while its exposed to freezing conditions and gasping for oxygen. Personally I think the mortality rate on the catch...photo photo photo and release is a way higher than we think. If we dont outright kill them we weaken them perhaps to point of no return?? Just my opinion
Gord

[tight line]

Originally Posted by muzzy

I hear all this talk about walleye ruining pike fishery Then explain how the lakes of northern Sask and manitoba are full of both pike and walleye and both are doing fine. Pike eat walleye walleye eat pike. And its not that walleye are an introduced species in Wab, they were proliferant 30 years back.
Personally I think the decline of big pike in wab is self inflicted by the explosion of fisherman on wab in past 8 years and the reason is all those photo's of everyone grinning holding up those big 20 pound pike. Try holding your breath for 3 to 5 minutes and see if you live! better yet strip down soak yourself in water and stand out in the minus 20 degree weather while holding your breath while waiting for the photo shoot. wonder how you would fare??? Its all the handing, fumbling to get camera's,taking the time for the photo shoots, oh lets get little johnny a pic holding the fish, all while its exposed to freezing conditions and gasping for oxygen. Personally I think the mortality rate on the catch...photo photo photo and release is a way higher than we think. If we dont outright kill them we weaken them perhaps to point of no return?? Just my opinion
Gord

Or lakes like North Wabasca, loads of Walleye, and definately no shortage of Big Pike. A healthy Lake should balance itself out eventually, may just take a while..

Thereare definately alot of factors as to whats affecting the Pike.

[cube]

Originally Posted by muzzy

And its not that walleye are an introduced species in Wab, they were proliferant 30 years back. They were not a native population 30 years ago either as they were stocked in that time as well. Try holding your breath for 3 to 5 minutes and see if you live! It's not valid to compare cold blooded vs warm blooded species holding their breath as O2 consumption rates are very different. better yet strip down soak yourself in water and stand out in the minus 20 degree weather while holding your breath while waiting for the photo shoot. wonder how you would fare??? Again comparing cold blooded animals here is probably not valid Its all the handing, fumbling to get camera's,taking the time for the photo shoots, oh lets get little johnny a pic holding the fish, all while its exposed to freezing conditions and gasping for oxygen. Personally I think the mortality rate on the catch...photo photo photo and release is a way higher than we think. If we dont outright kill them we weaken them perhaps to point of no return?? Just my opinion
Gord

Agreed allot of us could do better in handling fish, esp the large ones.

[binnzer32]

I tend to agree.

Originally Posted by Mike_W

For how many "DEAD" lakes you seem to find... I am pretty sure you are just a bad fisherman

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by muzzy

I hear all this talk about walleye ruining pike fishery Then explain how the lakes of northern Sask and manitoba are full of both pike and walleye and both are doing fine. Pike eat walleye walleye eat pike. And its not that walleye are an introduced species in Wab, they were proliferant 30 years back.
Personally I think the decline of big pike in wab is self inflicted by the explosion of fisherman on wab in past 8 years and the reason is all those photo's of everyone grinning holding up those big 20 pound pike. Try holding your breath for 3 to 5 minutes and see if you live! better yet strip down soak yourself in water and stand out in the minus 20 degree weather while holding your breath while waiting for the photo shoot. wonder how you would fare??? Its all the handing, fumbling to get camera's,taking the time for the photo shoots, oh lets get little johnny a pic holding the fish, all while its exposed to freezing conditions and gasping for oxygen. Personally I think the mortality rate on the catch...photo photo photo and release is a way higher than we think. If we dont outright kill them we weaken them perhaps to point of no return?? Just my opinion
Gord

agree!

[cube]

Originally Posted by tight line

Or lakes like North Wabasca, loads of Walleye, and definately no shortage of Big Pike. A healthy Lake should balance itself out eventually, may just take a while..

Thereare definately alot of factors as to whats affecting the Pike.

It is interesting you should pick North Wabasca.

North Wabasca, if you read the reports, now has about 1/6th the concentration of walleye compared to Pigeon lake and the pike population has been steadily dropping and as of 2010 has been considered a vulnerable population. So once again as we see the walleye population go up we see the pike population go down. Since 2006 the pike population of North Wabasca has dropped in half.

If you compare South Wabasca to North Wabasca; you see that South has 1/2 the concentration of walleye BUT 4 times the concentration of pike.

[muzzy]

Cube thanks for editing my post to put a few things in that I didnt Lets make it 50 yrs then . My hunting buddy who is 67 was born on shores of lake isle a few miles from wab and his dad homesteaded by wab in 20's initially cutting rail ties for rail road . He says they used to net walleye heavily back in 30 and 40's and that they were prolific and originally there. try again

[Bhflyfisher]

I think they're hiding. Seen enough big pike come out last year, and 3 first hand myself in 2 days of fishing, having never fished the lake before, that they can't have just disappeared as soon as the ice came on.

I think with this weird winter we're having, barometric pressures have been consistently changing, and lead to slower fishing, and less then favourable conditions. I'm not saying that the pike aren't on decline, as i agree many are seeing much smaller sub 34" fish, but i don't believe we can draw conclusions that its dead from one bad ice season.

I think a lot of anglers need to reflect and think how good of an angler you really are, when you're calling lakes "dead". I wouldn't be jumping to conclusions until you've had 2-3 bad full seasons in a row.

[cube]

Originally Posted by muzzy

Cube thanks for editing my post to put a few things in that I didnt Lets make it 50 yrs then . My hunting buddy who is 67 was born on shores of lake isle a few miles from wab and his dad homesteaded by wab in 20's initially cutting rail ties for rail road . He says they used to net walleye heavily back in 30 and 40's and that they were prolific and originally there. try again

They of course were always in Lake Isle, if we are talking about Wab

From Schindler's report on Wab

"only anecdotal reports suggest that walleye were an incidental species in Lake Wabamun. Fishery monitoring (both commercial and sport) failed to record the catch of any walleye during the 1970s and 1980s (Glen Clements, personal communication). During 1983 to 1986 (inclusive), approximately 12 million walleye fry were stocked in Lake Wabamun (Berry 1992)"

So the Walleye that you said were caught 30 years a go were not a natural population

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by cube

They of course were always in Lake Isle, if we are talking about Wab

From Schindler's report on Wab

"only anecdotal reports suggest that walleye were an incidental species in Lake Wabamun. Fishery monitoring (both commercial and sport) failed to record the catch of any walleye during the 1970s and 1980s (Glen Clements, personal communication). During 1983 to 1986 (inclusive), approximately 12 million walleye fry were stocked in Lake Wabamun (Berry 1992)"

So the Walleye that you said were caught 30 years a go were not a natural population

Your talkin 70 and 80's.... Muzzy said much earlier than that. 30s and 40s

[cube]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Your talkin 70 and 80's.... Muzzy said much earlier than that. 30s and 40s

He said quote "they were proliferant 30 years back" Not in the 30's and 40's. But that would not matter either as even the incidental reports had Walleye gone in the very early 1900s (Meredith).

[cube]

Originally Posted by Bhflyfisher

I wouldn't be jumping to conclusions until you've had 2-3 bad full seasons in a row.

Pretty sure that is what they did with the Atlantic cod fishery and 2 decades later we still have a problem. When you let things go too far before you react it takes so MUCH longer for things to recover.

I don't think Safety D really means Wab is totally dead. What he is saying is something is going on here and it needs to be at the very least watched or more properly even dealt with.

At the end of the day I thought we had something special with Wab and it's pike fishery. Did not see any reason to have to stock in another species that may have been there or may not have been there naturally. As far as I can tell the only species that gets managed in this province is walleye and trout and I think that is very sad.

[cube]

.

[Bhflyfisher]

Originally Posted by cube

Pretty sure that is what they did with the Atlantic cod fishery and 2 decades later we still have a problem. When you let things go too far before you react it takes so MUCH longer for things to recover.

I don't think Safety D really means Wab is totally dead. What he is saying is something is going on here and it needs to be at the very least watched or more properly even dealt with.

Like i said, I'm not saying there isn't a decline being seen from seasoned vets on the lake. I'm just saying it takes more then 15 weeks of fishing to conclude things are headed in a direction that everyone needs to freak out about.

However, I do agree with you, things like this should be dealt with before they get out of hand, however that might not be possible. I believe theres a mix of things at play here.

1. As a few have stated, we're seeing a cycle of age classes, which is entirely natural.
2. 15 weeks of poor conditions.

The mixture of the two is causing concern to many. Likely the poor fish handling practices of the average angler are at play too, same with the massive introduction of walleye. I'm pulling this statistic out of my rear end but I would bet, less then 10% (Hell i'd reckon 5%) of the average Albertan anglers knows how to handle large fish properly. But it doesn't make sense that a large portion of the population of big pike just naturally kicked the can all at once (as soon as the ice came on).

[cube]

For what its worth, I fish Wab allot and I can say the decline has not just been this ice season.