Can those that have a grazing lease deny me access?

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Birchcraft

Been there done that, friend called the top in Edmonton and was told if they don't want you there you can't go there.

i have had quite the opposite

if you need the number of someone to call and give a formal complaint in writing to let me know i might be able to help

[mulecrazy]

I have had a few things thrown at me which are BS,

#1 you have to access the lease through my deeded stuff so I am saying no. uh, you cant use your own land as a shield.

#2 you can go after moose but my friends are shooting deer in there. so now you can control what people shoot hey, whats next, you going to tell me I can only shoot 4x4 whiteys but anything bigger is for him?

#3 I have cows in the area. I am not certain, but I believe most leases have a rule that cattle must be off by Nov 1.

#4 I like seeing the animals. ugh, you don't own them though.

Here is my biggest beef with the whole issue. I can always find other permission to hunt and have never and likely will never pursue these any further. My reasons for not pushing it is so that I do not damage any potential future access with his neighbours by gaining a reputation, and I can see this as a potential nightmare of phonecalls for just a bit of access. I know this is not really the best thing to do in the big picture, but what can a guy do. you will always run into these guys.

How does a guy prevent these sorts of things? Do we maybe need to look at future legislation to force a unified set of rules for hunting access? Make all lease land "foot access without contact for the purpose of hunting". as long as simple conditions like no cattle are allowed. Most of the landowners are decent, its the few bad ones that are a pain in the butt.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

The deal leaseholders are getting on lease land (incl taxes) is very favorable compared to renting private land or buying it. Never mind the additional surface lease revenue that some leaseholders are receiving from oil and gas development.

If there is such a deal then why don't hunters buy some leases up and then they could go hunting when ever they want. Does your taxes pay for the dugouts that are put on some of the leases not to mention when they have to be cleaned out. Because without water it's kinda hard for animals to survive. The lease holder had to buy the lease and when oil and gas are on a lease the lease holder is compensated for the land that was disturbed and can't be grazed. Do you know the going rate to rent land vs leasing.

[Mhunter51]

Instead of sitting on the couch and getting on the phone to ask permission of someone who has never met you and probably has answered the phone 15 times this week from people he or she has never met, go for a drive and meet the person, in person NOT on some stupid Facebook or the like, chat with them and ask if you could have access. People are getting SOOOO lazy they think they are going to great lengths to make a phone call and if they put all that 'effort' into making the phone call they DESERVE to get permission. Get of your duff and go meet the land owners, lease's or managers. You will get a lot better reception than some faceless phone call telling them that you are coming out hunting tomorrow to their land or their lease. I got drawn for moose in an area this year that I have not hunted before. When I drove up there I seen a lot of no hunting signs. A bit disappointed but I stopped in at a couple farms and chatted to the owners. Introduced myself, told him I was out scouting for the season starting in four weeks and was there a chance I could hunt. You bet. I just want to know who is here and meet the hunters I was told. Never had one person say no. So get off the cell phone, get off the couch, spend 30 or 40 bucks in gas and go meet your potential "host".

[newguy]

You make a good point about private land but it doesn't work for the vast majority of leased land. It's near impossible to make contact without the contact info outlined in the access conditions. You'll likely need more gas money to find the leaseholder.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

If there is such a deal then why don't hunters buy some leases up and then they could go hunting when ever they want. Does your taxes pay for the dugouts that are put on some of the leases not to mention when they have to be cleaned out. Because without water it's kinda hard for animals to survive. The lease holder had to buy the lease and when oil and gas are on a lease the lease holder is compensated for the land that was disturbed and can't be grazed. Do you know the going rate to rent land vs leasing.

The leaseholder isn't losing money on these leases. Period.
In some cases there is tremendous surface lease revenue regardless of ever having to deal with a fence, dugout or cow.
Rec access shouldn't be a run around.

Good read

https://albertawilderness.ca/wordpre...s_urquhart.pdf

[TBark]

Its not a bad idea if the lease holder did tell you how many people have already asked, or have notified that they were to go on the lease.
But then it comes down to trust and honesty. It may be a line of BS, or maybe not.
People will all be excited to go and see 6 trucks at the gate at 7 AM.

TBark

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

The leaseholder isn't losing money on these leases. Period.
In some cases there is tremendous surface lease revenue regardless of ever having to deal with a fence, dugout or cow.
Rec access shouldn't be a run around.

Good read

https://albertawilderness.ca/wordpre...s_urquhart.pdf

So that's that. It's snots like you that wreck hunter, land owner relations. It's my god given right to do what ever I want attitude that the landowner/lease holders really like.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

So that's that. It's snots like you that wreck hunter, land owner relations. It's my god given right to do what ever I want attitude that the land/lease holders really like.

I must be right if you have resorted to name calling.
It's a two way street mister.

[ram crazy]

No name calling, just stating a fact.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

The deal leaseholders are getting on lease land (incl taxes) is very favorable compared to renting private land or buying it. Never mind the additional surface lease revenue that some leaseholders are receiving from oil and gas development.

I don't know how much experience you have with grazing leases but I used to lease 4 1/2 sections and I would have been miles ahead buying land instead. Not only did I lose financially, every year some one would leave my gates open and allow my cows to drift all over the country. Quadders drive all over it and rut it up so that the trails are almost impassible and cut the fence if they didn't find a gate on the pipeline they were following. See the attached photo for another benefit of lease land that the public has access to.

In 15 years I had one person call and ask for permission. We told her to go ahead but she would be carrying anything she shot out on her back and never heard from her again. Before you jump down my throat for that, not one person on this board would let her or her husband on their place if they knew them.

When I finally draw my Cadomin ram tag I'm marching into mine office and demanding access to the reclaimed mine. Who do they think they are keeping me off the mine when all they have rights for is the coal?

[Deer Hunter]

You lost $ on 4.5 sections of lease land every year?

That pile of garbage is disrespectful alright.

[newguy]

Hi NCC. I'm sure many would appreciate your explanation about loosing money on all that land you leased, do tell

[NCC]

Originally Posted by newguy

Hi NCC. I'm sure many would appreciate your explanation about loosing money on all that land you leased, do tell

I sold my lease land for about what I paid for it plus the cost of the improvements I made on it. I sold my deeded land for more than twice what I paid for it. And I didn't have to pay the AB government per AMU on my deeded land. And I didn't have to explain to guys that don't know anything about lease land but heard somewhere that somebody in southeast AB gets $500 000 a year in surface rent that "Cowboy Welfare" benefits a very small percentage of lease holders.

I didn't receive a penny for any surface rent and I would have doubled my money if I had spent it on deeded land instead of lease land. And I worked my ass off clearing, breaking, seeding, spraying weeds, and fencing 4 sections of land when 4 quarters of deeded land would have carried the same number of cows. I still have cows and I no longer have lease land. It's not the money train that some guys think it is.

I apologize to the OP for the derail as his intent was to discuss hunting access which I have never had a problem with on either side of the fence. It just drives me crazy when then these threads always end up with the lease holders being portrayed as some money grubbing scab who is living off the good will of the Alberta government. Hack away at the lease holders who won't allow you on their land but stop attacking all the lease holders about the cost issues. It's a free market economy, leases are bought and sold to the highest bidder for what makes economic sense.

[newguy]

Originally Posted by NCC

I sold my lease land for about what I paid for it plus the cost of the improvements I made on it. I sold my deeded land for more than twice what I paid for it. And I didn't have to pay the AB government per AMU on my deeded land. And I didn't have to explain to guys that don't know anything about lease land but heard somewhere that somebody in southeast AB gets $500 000 a year in surface rent that "Cowboy Welfare" benefits a very small percentage of lease holders.

I didn't receive a penny for any surface rent and I would have doubled my money if I had spent it on deeded land instead of lease land. And I worked my ass off clearing, breaking, seeding, spraying weeds, and fencing 4 sections of land when 4 quarters of deeded land would have carried the same number of cows. I still have cows and I no longer have lease land. It's not the money train that some guys think it is.

I apologize to the OP for the derail as his intent was to discuss hunting access which I have never had a problem with on either side of the fence. It just drives me crazy when then these threads always end up with the lease holders being portrayed as some money grubbing scab who is living off the good will of the Alberta government. Hack away at the lease holders who won't allow you on their land but stop attacking all the lease holders about the cost issues. It's a free market economy, leases are bought and sold to the highest bidder for what makes economic sense.

I've never heard about these types of issues from any leaseholders I know and it's horrible it happened that way for you... thanks for the info

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by NCC

I sold my lease land for about what I paid for it plus the cost of the improvements I made on it. I sold my deeded land for more than twice what I paid for it. And I didn't have to pay the AB government per AMU on my deeded land. And I didn't have to explain to guys that don't know anything about lease land but heard somewhere that somebody in southeast AB gets $500 000 a year in surface rent that "Cowboy Welfare" benefits a very small percentage of lease holders.

I didn't receive a penny for any surface rent and I would have doubled my money if I had spent it on deeded land instead of lease land. And I worked my ass off clearing, breaking, seeding, spraying weeds, and fencing 4 sections of land when 4 quarters of deeded land would have carried the same number of cows. I still have cows and I no longer have lease land. It's not the money train that some guys think it is.

I apologize to the OP for the derail as his intent was to discuss hunting access which I have never had a problem with on either side of the fence. It just drives me crazy when then these threads always end up with the lease holders being portrayed as some money grubbing scab who is living off the good will of the Alberta government. Hack away at the lease holders who won't allow you on their land but stop attacking all the lease holders about the cost issues. It's a free market economy, leases are bought and sold to the highest bidder for what makes economic sense.

You are not alone my friend, Many of the lease holders I know have the same story to tell, high costs, low returns and issues with public access causing problems.

I don't own or lease any farm land but I work plenty of both, for friends, family and neighbors.

It gets under my skin when I hear folks crying about how rich lease holders are, and how selfish they are for not welcoming every Tom Dick and Harold onto their lease land.


I've said it before and I'll say it again. Keep it up folks and you'll loose it all.
There is a point where it makes more sense to buy rather then lease.
Make no mistake, lease land can be sold, and it will be if that makes more sense to the cattleman. And you will have no say in the matter.

Think about it. if it wasn't profitable, why would anyone lease land they could buy. Of course lease holders make money off the leased land, or at least they hope to. What's wrong with that. You make a profit spending your time doing your job, why shouldn't they?

It's simple math, if the costs get to high, they'll do something different. For them it's a business and businesses have to be profitable or they don't make sense.

[ram crazy]

Most lease holders would rather own the land than lease it if they were given the option.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by maximusII

I did not miss it at all. I just called to cover my bases and she is telling me to go elsewhere. I was curious if she can even do that.

You answered that but your right by calling and being polite etc.

Carry on and enjoy the lease land.

[Wiz]

All being said, she is probably telling you the truth. with the new ihunter app, finding access has never been easier. that is why all the good, close GLs are full.

do yourself (and the other hunters who got access early) a favor and find another spot. you dont want to be in a GL with a bunch of other hunters anyways.

[Wiz]

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

I have had a few things thrown at me which are BS,

#1 you have to access the lease through my deeded stuff so I am saying no. uh, you cant use your own land as a shield.

#2 you can go after moose but my friends are shooting deer in there. so now you can control what people shoot hey, whats next, you going to tell me I can only shoot 4x4 whiteys but anything bigger is for him?

#3 I have cows in the area. I am not certain, but I believe most leases have a rule that cattle must be off by Nov 1.

#4 I like seeing the animals. ugh, you don't own them though.

Here is my biggest beef with the whole issue. I can always find other permission to hunt and have never and likely will never pursue these any further. My reasons for not pushing it is so that I do not damage any potential future access with his neighbours by gaining a reputation, and I can see this as a potential nightmare of phonecalls for just a bit of access. I know this is not really the best thing to do in the big picture, but what can a guy do. you will always run into these guys.

How does a guy prevent these sorts of things? Do we maybe need to look at future legislation to force a unified set of rules for hunting access? Make all lease land "foot access without contact for the purpose of hunting". as long as simple conditions like no cattle are allowed. Most of the landowners are decent, its the few bad ones that are a pain in the butt.

and this... good post.

[HoytCRX32]

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

I have had a few things thrown at me which are BS,

#1 you have to access the lease through my deeded stuff so I am saying no. uh, you cant use your own land as a shield.

Owners of private property can restrict access as they see fit. You cannot access one property (leased or deeded) from / through property you have not been granted permission on.

[raab]

I believe theres a clause where they can deny access if the lease is within a certain distance of the lease holders primary residence.

[Birchcraft]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

Owners of private property can restrict access as they see fit. You cannot access one property (leased or deeded) from / through property you have not been granted permission on.

There would be road allowances though it may be hard trekking along them depending on the conditions.

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by Birchcraft

There would be road allowances though it may be hard trekking along them depending on the conditions.

This is exactly it. and as a road allowance, I don't believe you can legally lock it. I know you cannot keep someone off a road allowance.

[Birchcraft]

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

This is exactly it. and as a road allowance, I don't believe you can legally lock it. I know you cannot keep someone off a road allowance.

It is possible to lease road allowances from municipalities but that is unlikely to happen if it serves as the only means of access to public land, leased or not.

[CMichaud]

I've said it before....leases should revert to Crown land status between 1 Nov and 31 Mar.

They can still be issued on 5,10 etc year contracts so they do not have to be re-purchased every year.

If government lease rates need to be cut by 40% to reflect the shortened lease so be it.

[Don_Parsons]

I agree, might be better to harvest on Crown lands a-possed to GL,,, to many others in some of those areas, and this at times pushes the critters out side the GL.

Harvesting on Crown lands is fun for those of us that choose this, big game likes being away from humans and not to be seen.

Biggest Elk and Deer I'm out too harvest have not been on GL'S,,, "from the ones I've seen over the years." This is not saying that record book critters have not come from farm lands and GL areas either.

I'll harvest on Crown lands as long as I live since its there too use with no people where I go.

So peaceful and quiet out there doing my own thing, and some nice critters to view along the way.

Only ideas as each finds what works in the adventure of good times.

Don

[heronfish]

It's always interesting to read the farmer hate that springs up with this constant topic. Real disconnect here.

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by heronfish

It's always interesting to read the farmer hate that springs up with this constant topic. Real disconnect here.

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk

I dont think there is any farmer hate at all. A hate of inequality is all I see.