Canada’s Outdoor Outfitters Wholesale Sports

Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Hunting Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 02-17-2017, 09:59 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 27,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
If that was what the agreement was, and now they are asked to give up a significant portion of their rights?

I think it is reasonable to negotiate that they should get back a significant portion of what they originally gave up.

I do not think that is ever going to happen, so I do not think the government will be able to weasel out of their deal but may be able to do some closures as per the regulation thing.

Being a non native person I do not think there is anything that protects my right to sport hunt? I accept that I often have to apply and wait my turn and then pay for that privilege in hopes that the government will manage the game so that I can continue to enjoy my sport.

Until such time as a fair agreement can be made I will accept that.
Let's not forget all of the other things that the native people have received that were not specifically mentioned in the treaties. Reading the text of the treaties, I see no mention of access to our universities, hospitals, free medical care in modern hospitals, homes with electricity, running water, central heat, roads to drive on, air strips for remote settlements, community centers with gyms and hockey arenas etc. So in fact, the natives received much more than the things specified in the treaties, meaning that the government has in many ways gone above and beyond to provide more than what was agreed upon. Some will argue that these things are all part of our evolving society and modernization, but then so is the need to regulate hunting to maintain our game populations.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
  #62  
Old 02-17-2017, 10:18 AM
wildbill wildbill is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gods Country
Posts: 866
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Let's not forget all of the other things that the native people have received that were not specifically mentioned in the treaties. Reading the text of the treaties, I see no mention of access to our universities, hospitals, free medical care in modern hospitals, homes with electricity, running water, central heat, roads to drive on, air strips for remote settlements, community centers with gyms and hockey arenas etc. So in fact, the natives received much more than the things specified in the treaties, meaning that the government has in many ways gone above and beyond to provide more than what was agreed upon. Some will argue that these things are all part of our evolving society and modernization, but then so is the need to regulate hunting to maintain our game populations.
I agree 100% with native hunting rights, just not the methods. I believe only traditional forms of hunting ie. no guns, vehicles, compound bows, horses, roads ect. None of these luxuries were here before the European settlers showed up. Letting people hunt all year, especially when animals are vulnerable, is unethical, poor wildlife management.
  #63  
Old 02-17-2017, 11:24 AM
wwbirds's Avatar
wwbirds wwbirds is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: near Calgary
Posts: 5,444
Default annual payments

called for $25 per chief and regular payments of $12 to every other person (think headman? got a bit more) in 1873 dollars would be worth what in todays currency. looked after them for schooling and medicine promised in 1873 has evolved for everyone in Canada including other people. as has weaponry for those that hunt and the roads traveled by everyone in the country. The reason the treaties promised natives the "moon" is because they were dealing with the Queen whose representatives said she was bound to look after them forever in return for natives allowing settlement and "sharing" the land without incident. In actual fact many natives believe most of those promises were broken or compromised and natives were actually held down. Some believe that it was actually a case of cultural genocide with no intention of honoring the promises so they could promise anything at all hoping with disease and other factors the population would cease to exist. Remember the old saying "I am from the government and here to help" brings back so many bad memories/stories for natives. I find many things ironic in that the government refused to entrench native rights in the constitution until natives went to the international community and even England to involve the Queen in 1982. It was the worldwide stage that embarressed Canada to clean up their act. Some interesting comparisons now a days with Canada bringing in and supporting refuges with generous housing and living allowances. We have a history of treating just about everyone better than our own natives. Hutterites, Mennonites and even Mormans came to Canada to escape persecution and thrived. They acquired land were allowed to vote and interact and prospered. They kept their language were exempt from some taxes and military service. Natives could not travel without written permission from agents, families were torn apart, traditions and cultural practices discouraged and even outlawed including speaking their native language. they could not marry, join the military or vote (1952)until they swore to give up their "rights". Turdo and his father says we are an open society with entrenched rights and freedoms welcoming everyone but our history with natives shows in many ways they are still considered inferior and always have been so prevented from becoming full productive members of society. If you create dependence you must support it if you allow freedom and integration everyone can prosper equally. We are not there yet.
__________________
The snow is melting and it is almost dog training season!
  #64  
Old 02-17-2017, 11:29 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 27,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwbirds View Post
called for $25 per chief and regular payments of $12 to every other person (think headman? got a bit more) in 1873 dollars would be worth what in todays currency. looked after them for schooling and medicine promised in 1873 has evolved for everyone in Canada including other people. as has weaponry for those that hunt and the roads traveled by everyone in the country. The reason the treaties promised natives the "moon" is because they were dealing with the Queen whose representatives said she was bound to look after them forever in return for natives allowing settlement and "sharing" the land without incident. In actual fact many natives believe most of those promises were broken or compromised and natives were actually held down. Some believe that it was actually a case of cultural genocide with no intention of honoring the promises so they could promise anything at all hoping with disease and other factors the population would cease to exist. Remember the old saying "I am from the government and here to help" brings back so many bad memories/stories for natives. I find many things ironic in that the government refused to entrench native rights in the constitution until natives went to the international community and even England to involve the Queen in 1982. It was the worldwide stage that embarressed Canada to clean up their act. Some interesting comparisons now a days with Canada bringing in and supporting refuges with generous housing and living allowances. We have a history of treating just about everyone better than our own natives. Hutterites, Mennonites and even Mormans came to Canada to escape persecution and thrived. They acquired land were allowed to vote and interact and prospered. They kept their language were exempt from some taxes and military service. Natives could not travel without written permission from agents, families were torn apart, traditions and cultural practices discouraged and even outlawed including speaking their native language. they could not marry, join the military or vote (1952)until they swore to give up their "rights". Turdo and his father says we are an open society with entrenched rights and freedoms welcoming everyone but our history with natives shows in many ways they are still considered inferior and always have been so prevented from becoming full productive members of society. If you create dependence you must support it if you allow freedom and integration everyone can prosper equally. We are not there yet.
That very constitution that Trudeau Sr helped create in 1982, will prevent all Canadians from ever being equal, unless it is rewritten. And the longer Canadians are not equal, the longer we will continue to build barriers based on race, religion, sexual preference, etc.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
  #65  
Old 02-17-2017, 12:16 PM
covey ridge covey ridge is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N.E. of High River Alberta
Posts: 2,605
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Let's not forget all of the other things that the native people have received that were not specifically mentioned in the treaties. Reading the text of the treaties, I see no mention of access to our universities, hospitals, free medical care in modern hospitals, homes with electricity, running water, central heat, roads to drive on, air strips for remote settlements, community centers with gyms and hockey arenas etc. So in fact, the natives received much more than the things specified in the treaties, meaning that the government has in many ways gone above and beyond to provide more than what was agreed upon. Some will argue that these things are all part of our evolving society and modernization, but then so is the need to regulate hunting to maintain our game populations.
I for one am not forgetting anything! Maybe there are some things I do not know for sure. My understanding is that they are Canadians and they have been assured of certain rights that they had before the land grab. I think that as Canadians they should have access to all of the things you mentioned.

The Queen made a deal. She wanted the land to settle.. She had a choice. She could fight and take the land or she could bargain for the land, We all know which one she chose. Now that Canada has its own constitution and has honored the deal that the Queen made. Now as I see it, the government has a choice of weaseling out of the deal or bargaining its way out. I hope the government chooses to bargain out.
  #66  
Old 02-17-2017, 12:23 PM
covey ridge covey ridge is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N.E. of High River Alberta
Posts: 2,605
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwbirds View Post
called for $25 per chief and regular payments of $12 to every other person (think headman? got a bit more) in 1873 dollars would be worth what in todays currency. looked after them for schooling and medicine promised in 1873 has evolved for everyone in Canada including other people. as has weaponry for those that hunt and the roads traveled by everyone in the country. The reason the treaties promised natives the "moon" is because they were dealing with the Queen whose representatives said she was bound to look after them forever in return for natives allowing settlement and "sharing" the land without incident. In actual fact many natives believe most of those promises were broken or compromised and natives were actually held down. Some believe that it was actually a case of cultural genocide with no intention of honoring the promises so they could promise anything at all hoping with disease and other factors the population would cease to exist. Remember the old saying "I am from the government and here to help" brings back so many bad memories/stories for natives. I find many things ironic in that the government refused to entrench native rights in the constitution until natives went to the international community and even England to involve the Queen in 1982. It was the worldwide stage that embarressed Canada to clean up their act. Some interesting comparisons now a days with Canada bringing in and supporting refuges with generous housing and living allowances. We have a history of treating just about everyone better than our own natives. Hutterites, Mennonites and even Mormans came to Canada to escape persecution and thrived. They acquired land were allowed to vote and interact and prospered. They kept their language were exempt from some taxes and military service. Natives could not travel without written permission from agents, families were torn apart, traditions and cultural practices discouraged and even outlawed including speaking their native language. they could not marry, join the military or vote (1952)until they swore to give up their "rights". Turdo and his father says we are an open society with entrenched rights and freedoms welcoming everyone but our history with natives shows in many ways they are still considered inferior and always have been so prevented from becoming full productive members of society. If you create dependence you must support it if you allow freedom and integration everyone can prosper equally. We are not there yet.
I wish we were there! I never knew you were so eloquent! Well said.
  #67  
Old 02-17-2017, 12:44 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 27,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
I for one am not forgetting anything! Maybe there are some things I do not know for sure. My understanding is that they are Canadians and they have been assured of certain rights that they had before the land grab. I think that as Canadians they should have access to all of the things you mentioned.

The Queen made a deal. She wanted the land to settle.. She had a choice. She could fight and take the land or she could bargain for the land, We all know which one she chose. Now that Canada has its own constitution and has honored the deal that the Queen made. Now as I see it, the government has a choice of weaseling out of the deal or bargaining its way out. I hope the government chooses to bargain out.
Yes all canadians should be able to enjoy the things that I mentioned, but some people want all of the modern con eniences, and yet they continue to demand to be able to enjoy their traditional pastimes of hinting and fishing. How is driving down the road in a vehicle shining a two million candlepower light on animals in a field, and shooting them out the window with a scoped high powered rifle traditional. As well, most Canadians pay taxes that pay for those schools and hospitals and roads and airports and arenas, whereas many treaty people living on reserves so not. Where do the treaties mention exemptions from sales taxes and income taxes, or carbon taxes?. People should either want to be a contributing part of our modern society, or they should want to maintain their traditional lifestyle, but these people want to be able to pick and choose the best of both worlds.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
  #68  
Old 02-17-2017, 01:00 PM
covey ridge covey ridge is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: N.E. of High River Alberta
Posts: 2,605
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
these people want to be able to pick and choose the best of both worlds.
I do not know about picking and choosing but these people presently have the right to the best of what is given to them in the constitution.

If you do not agree with that do what you can change it to your liking, but you have not said anything that would change my mind.
  #69  
Old 02-17-2017, 01:04 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 27,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by covey ridge View Post
I do not know about picking and choosing but these people presently have the right to the best of what is given to them in the constitution.

If you do not agree with that do what you can change it to your liking, but you have not said anything that would change my mind.
So you are okay with Canadians continuing to build barriers based on race, religion, sexual orientation, language, province, etc? As long as there are different rights and privileges based of those factors, Canadians will never have the desire to unite and work together. The rivalries and confrontations will just continue to grow with time.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
  #70  
Old 02-17-2017, 02:56 PM
Xbolt7mm Xbolt7mm is online now
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: south calgary
Posts: 1,192
Default

Elkhunter,,,,end the rant would you!!!! Im a aboriginal and would highly doubt that you come close to paying the taxes i pay so im as entitled or even more so to use what you call our hospitals and roads and whatever else you listed than you are. Aboriginals work, we pay taxes, im not sure what gives you the right to imply we dont!
  #71  
Old 02-17-2017, 03:19 PM
catnthehat's Avatar
catnthehat catnthehat is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ft. McMurray
Posts: 30,771
Default

There have been a couple of complaints lodged concerning this thread
The rules are very clear and I will post them here.
Cat
- Any topics/posts or discussion that includes race, ethnic groups or Religion are NOT acceptable and can result in a loss of message board privileges not excluding permanently. This is NOT the forum for such discussions.
__________________
some days it ain't worth chewin' through the straps to get out of bed.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.