My first day reloading

[DiabeticKripple]

well i spent most of the day trying to reload some 150gr TTSX in 7mm Rem Mag.

Got everything de-primed then SS tumbled and dried. I neck sized them with a Lee Collet die, trimmed to 2.490" then deburred, chamfered.

After i deburred and chamfered, i re-measured the cases and they got longer? Most were around the 2.495" mark, so i trimmed them back to 2.490" again for a consistent length between them all.

Next i went to try and figure out the COAL to the lands in my Tikka T3. I took an unsized case, necked it down a bit to get a better grip on the bullet, seated a bullet long and chambered it. I did this 10 times and got pretty much the same length +/- a thousandth, 3.417"

I then coloured a bullet in sharpie to confirm what I had just done. its very hard to tell where the rifling stopped touching the bullet. I do have a Hornady OAL gauge in the mail.

Next i tested my longest COAL in my mag which i was able to get 3.367" but i went to 3.365" for a bit more room for reliability. This length should give me the 0.050" jump to the lands that Barnes recommends for the TTSX.

I then measured some of the case necks to make sure they were the same width, when some measured 0.312" and some 0.309". I measured the inside and some were 0.284" and some 0.282" which gave me an inconsistent neck tension for the 0.284" bullets.

so i went to neck size again, didnt set the die up right and stripped the top cap out the top, wrecking the die. I got about half the cases necked to the 0.309" diameter when it broke. I think the press cammed over as i didnt have the die in far enough. I got some epoxy and glued the top cap back in, and ordered a new die as no one in Red Deer has it. So hopefully this epoxy will let me finish this batch of cases so i can shoot on the weekend.

Am I overthinking everything? New to reloading and i wanted consistent cases.

Ive got some Winchester primers, IMR 4138 and H1000 to try.

Tomorrow I might try some .308 Win as well.

[Dick284]

Throw your digital calipers in the closet, and buy a set of vernier calipers.

You're fretting over the thickness of an onion skin.

Get to the range and pew pew.

The rest will fall into place soon enough.

[gtr]

Looks like your paying attention. Don't over think it. Good luck

[DiabeticKripple]

Well the epoxy worked, got the rest done.

Got the primers put in, now time for supper, then to powder and bullet seating!

My plan is to start at the min load and load 3 rounds at .5gr increments until I get to the max.

[wlou]

If the top of your Lee collet die popped off, then you're using too much pressure when sizing. If you feel you're not getting enough neck tension, then remove the sizing mandrel, chuck it in a drill and polish it using 1000x wet/dry sandpaper. While your die is apart, you may want to break any sharp edges between the collet fingers with the same sandpaper if you're noticing the dies are sticking or you're getting vertical striation marks on the case necks.

The machining on the Lee Collets are a bit rough, but they work very well and putting a few minutes of polishing will help them operate much smoother. While you can't really do anything on your epoxied die, Lee will send you a replacement cap under warranty if it happens again on your next dies.

[densa44]

There is excellent hep here we are very lucky to have some world class experts. Not me. It is a rewarding hobby that will last a life tme.

Enjoy chasing the "one hole" target. BTW it is possible.

[DiabeticKripple]

Well got the first 2 batches finished. 22 rounds of both H1000 and IMR 4831.




Going to try .308 tomorrow and I should have a nice long day at the range Sunday. Maybe I’ll go Monday too to break it up a bit.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by gtr

Looks like your paying attention. Don't over think it. Good luck

This, and wouldn't crimp, your doing great.

[DiabeticKripple]

Well I’m an idiot and totally forgot the chronograph at home in Red Deer, my range is CDTSA so I couldn’t track that lol.

I got some really good groups in both rifles, even though I only did 3 round groups. I figured I could save some money by shooting 3’s, seeing what’s close, and then working into 5’s.

Here are my best groups for the day. One was only a 2 shot group (I only loaded 2 at my start load)

This was factory 165gr TTSX in the 308


2 shot group of 308 with 42.5gr of Varget


3 shot group of 308 with 45.0gr of Varget. This was my max load and had a stiff bolt, brass and primer look perfect


3 shot group of 7RM with 60.5gr of IMR4831. This was close to max and I didn’t have any pressure signs, bolt lift was normal, brass and primers are perfect.


2 shot group of 7RM with 57.0gr of IMR4831. This was a start load so I only loaded 2. Turns out it might be pretty accurate.


3 shot group of 7RM with 66.5gr of H1000. This was near max as well, no pressure signs.


All shots were taken at 100yds off a front rest only, temp about 5C very little wind.

[Digger1]

Sweet!!!

[qwert]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Well I’m an idiot and totally forgot the chronograph at home in Red Deer, my range is CDTSA so I couldn’t track that lol.

I got some really good groups in both rifles, even though I only did 3 round groups. I figured I could save some money by shooting 3’s, seeing what’s close, and then working into 5’s.

Here are my best groups for the day. One was only a 2 shot group (I only loaded 2 at my start load)

sniped nice group photos

All shots were taken at 100yds off a front rest only, temp about 5C very little wind.

IMHO,
Small 3 shot groups are very satisfying and fun,
but individually indicate little useful load development information, especially when lacking a full series of chrony and incremental loading data.
Re-loaders, (who just want to duplicate factory performance) will say ‘job done’.
Hand-loaders, (striving for custom tuned ammunition) will say ‘it’s a good start’.

What you have proved is that you, and your rifle, and re-loads, are capable of producing accuracy suitable for performing further load development.
I submit you could have stopped after the second group

IMHE, Please allow me to make the following hopefully helpful suggestions.
Your target notes are incomplete and lack, specific bullet ID, CBTO loaded length, case prep, time & date fired, density altitude weather data, elevation or range ID.
If you keep a complete range notebook or other record, all you need on the target is the date and target ID.
A photo of your range log would be helpful, as the missing data could be there.
What would be even better is a look at your loading and firing spreadsheet, or a list of the data fields you are recording.

Loading and shooting groups can be pleasurable practice but also time consuming and expensive, and many barrels are more life limited than others.
IMHO, We want to gather the maximum amount of information with every shot we make.

I suggest you Google “Audette ladder test”.

When Creighton Audette developed his ladder test, chrono gauges were crude, marginally accurate, did not have modern electronic clocks or optical sensors, and were not in general use by hand-loaders. With the use of an inexpensive Chrony we can now easily gather information Audette needed to guestimate by inferring proxy results.

IMHE, An Audette ladder shot over a chrony will produce more worthwhile information in ~15 shots than can be discovered shooting ~75 shots in groups.

I begin my load development with an Audette ladder (@300-400 yds, & powder charge increments of .5% (NOT .5gr) and bullet seated at or very near the lands),
then graph the velocity and POI results using an electronic spreadsheet.
This usually reveals nodes worth further development, as well as velocity gain / powder increase, and maximum powder charge for the individual firearm.
The variability of target POI clearly shows the result of barrel harmonics which can similarly produce nodes of precision.
Once nodes are identified, I develop these further using groups @100, and smaller powder increments.

IMHO, Testing is only as good as the information it gathers.
Complete records are essential

Good Luck, YMMV.

[PeterLester]

Are you saying that the vernier calipers will read more precisely than the digital calipers?

[wolf]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Next i went to try and figure out the COAL to the lands in my Tikka T3. I took an unsized case, necked it down a bit to get a better grip on the bullet, seated a bullet long and chambered it. I did this 10 times and got pretty much the same length +/- a thousandth, 3.417"

does it still fit into the magazine?

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by wolf

does it still fit into the magazine?

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Next i went to try and figure out the COAL to the lands in my Tikka T3. I took an unsized case, necked it down a bit to get a better grip on the bullet, seated a bullet long and chambered it. I did this 10 times and got pretty much the same length +/- a thousandth, 3.417"

.......

Next i tested my longest COAL in my mag which i was able to get 3.367" but i went to 3.365" for a bit more room for reliability. This length should give me the 0.050" jump to the lands that Barnes recommends for the TTSX.

[Dean2]

You are off to a good start. Keep being as meticulous as you are, it will pay dividends. As far as a chronograph, as far as I am concerned they are a vital tool when developing loads. I rely on the velocity to numbers as on key measure of the pressure being produced. I have often found that I hit book max velocity at loads FAR below the book load. A serviceable one by Chrony can be had for less than $200 sand a top of the line Dopler is now down to $600 U.S.

As an example, of how useful they are, I have one 308 pushing a 130 grain bullet at 3100 fps with 47 grains of IMR 4895, out of a 21" barrel. Two loading books have the same top velocity of 3100 fps, both out of 24" barrels and both using 51 and 52 grains of IMR 4895. The chronograph told me I was at max pressure long before I got anywhere near the max weight of powder. I am sure if I tried loading another 4 or 5 grains of powder in this particular rifle, that unpleasantness would occur.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Thank you, sorry I missed that part. It almost defeats the purpose of measuring COAL on the rifle. I have the same issue on my A7, but my Savage has a blind magazine and it is fine.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by wolf

Thank you, sorry I missed that part. It almost defeats the purpose of measuring COAL on the rifle. I have the same issue on my A7, but my Savage has a blind magazine and it is fine.

I measured the COAL on the rifle to make sure that I was seating them 0.050” off the lands as recommended by Barnes and some other posters.

If the Mag was longer, and I seated to Mag length I could be too close to the lands.

I went and bought a chronograph anyways as I’ll need it at some point. Got a shooters chrony with the remote readout.

Qwert, I’m pretty good at excel so I’ll probably make a spreadsheet with all the info and stats, but I’ll keep the paper journal as a hard copy too.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

snip
I went and bought a chronograph anyways as I’ll need it at some point. Got a shooters chrony with the remote readout.

IMHO, the basic Shooting Chrony with remote is a great tool.
Just don't shoot it OR THE SKYSCREEN RODS

The skyscreens are not required with a cloudy, overcast sky, I suggest using small dia. drinking straws rather than the metal rods as a sighting aid.

I keep a piece of cord tied to the Chrony as a gauge for consistent muzzle distance.

IMHE, all chronies work best on a solid mounting, I now use Manfrotto 190 & 055 pro tripods, kijiji is a great source (~$100 with head)

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Qwert, I’m pretty good at excel so I’ll probably make a spreadsheet with all the info and stats, but I’ll keep the paper journal as a hard copy too.

I do not use a computer in the field.
My data spreadsheet tracks individual cases and prep performed,
then I make and print out a loadsheet plan,
which is first used on the loading bench,
then stored in the MTM box with the loaded cartridges,
then results and data noted on this sheet in the field.
The loadsheet and notes are stapled to the targets shot.
The notes are later entered and copied to the fired spreadsheet at home,
and used for both complete accumulated & compiled record, and further analysis.
Easier to do than describe.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[DiabeticKripple]

I used Varget in the 223’s.

I might try Benchmark. Nosler has that listed on their data and it’s a fast load.


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[PeterLester]

Ever tried H322? Apparently it is highly recommended for 223 reloading....Problem is I can't seem to find it anywhere. Also most powders are affected by ambient temperature conditions.....one more problem to deal with as the seasons and/or daily weather changes.

[32-40win]

Actually, if I were going to buy or try a different .223 powder, I'd look for something in the Accurate/Ramshot powder lines, they are achieving the velocities with 50-55gr bullets with very few compressed loads, whereas the Nosler data in comparison, shows pretty much all compressed loads. IE; AA2200 is 33-3400 @ 23-24gr w/50-52gr, depending on the bullet, X-terminator is 33-3400 @ 24.5 depending on the bullet, AA2230 is about the same, AA2460 is in the 25-26gr range, TAC is in the 25gr range.

Take a look at their data, have a look at Alliant and Vihtavouri and Norma as well, using a bit less powder to achieve the same end, is always a good thing. I have nothing against compressed loads, but, if they can be done without, that is usually a better way to do things..

[DiabeticKripple]

I’ve been doing what I thought was the proper way?

This time I loaded 5 at each charge weight, whatever groups the best without pressure signs is where I should focus my efforts


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[DiabeticKripple]

I learned how valuable a chronograph is yesterday.

I had loaded up some 7mm Rem Mag before and shot all the way to “max” loads based off Barnes load data. I shot them and never saw any pressure signs all the way up to max, but I didn’t have a chronograph.

I found Hodgdon data to be way different than Barnes, so I loaded up some at Hodgdons data. Well on the first few shots I was 100fps over their max velocity. I was shooting 68 grains of H1000 to start and was seeing faster velocities than their max load of 73.8