Humboldt Bus Accident Update

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by spirt4u

If the truck had just pulled away from the stop sign and got hit, all the debris would be on the road. The trucks load is all in the ditch west side of #35. The truck was clipping along and never stopped.

You can call that when a massive bus hits it at 100KM (At least)? I figured the load was tied down and came apart in the ditch.

[calgarygringo]

or he had already started to go through and didnt see the bus or that it was that close and didnt have enough speed and couldnt clear out in time. All are possibilities.

Originally Posted by spirt4u

If the truck had just pulled away from the stop sign and got hit, all the debris would be on the road. The trucks load is all in the ditch west side of #35. The truck was clipping along and never stopped.

[tri777]

Just a month ago, the lack of this story getting attention was driving me bonkers..
after really thinking about it, i now realize this entire situation is MUCH
like any death involving a legal Will/Inheritance like situation.
All these type situations take anywhere from 12-30mths to get settled..
Nw no longer feel impatient or really care after realizing this fact.

[Mountain Guy]

Maybe this ..maybe that.. does it really matter to all you analysts?
Don't understand why everybody is trying to determine how it went down.
Fact is..it went down. Horrible tragedy that can't be rewound or erased.

[oil99]

Originally Posted by spirt4u

If the truck had just pulled away from the stop sign and got hit, all the debris would be on the road. The trucks load is all in the ditch west side of #35. The truck was clipping along and never stopped.

It’s funny that so many try and explain what happened. Yet if anyone looked at the pictures, especially the ones from above, you can clearly see what you are saying and where the debris field is.

The other thing is the “load”, was basically massive crushing, projectiles. Anyone who has picked up a bale of peat moss knows how dense, and heavy it is. The scene says it all. Horrific.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Roderek

you would think, but have you considered the bus driver could have been doing 120 or 130, not sure what the speed limit is on that road but it is probably a 100.

The truck driver might have stopped and thought he had time to cross, but the bus was going faster and his judgement was off.

it is very possible that the bus driver could also be partially found at fault.

No offence but I'm not really buying it. The vehicle at the stop sign should only pull out when it is safe to do so. Oncoming traffic speed isn't really relevant.

If they made contact in the buses lane it should be all on the trucker. Didn't look to me like the bus hit the tail end of the truck and in your scenario he would have.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Maybe this ..maybe that.. does it really matter to all you analysts?
Don't understand why everybody is trying to determine how it went down.
Fact is..it went down. Horrible tragedy that can't be rewound or erased.

"Maybe this ..maybe that.." pretty well sums up the AO investigation.

As you say I agree that this was a Horrible tragedy and for sure can not be rewound or erased but in the interest of minimizing the likelihood of it happening again I am willing to wait for the conclusion of a reliable investigation.

[Looper]

Originally Posted by Roderek

you would think, but have you considered the bus driver could have been doing 120 or 130, not sure what the speed limit is on that road but it is probably a 100.

The truck driver might have stopped and thought he had time to cross, but the bus was going faster and his judgement was off.

it is very possible that the bus driver could also be partially found at fault.

I've seen this response many times on social media.

What I cant understand is how anyone can look at the pictures of the accident and not understand the momentum it took to carry the wreckage of the semi so far west past the intersection???

As stated, if he had started from a dead stop the semi would be North of the intersection not west.

Boggles the mind.


Looper

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Looper

What I cant understand is how anyone can look at the pictures of the accident and not understand the momentum it took to carry the wreckage of the semi so far west past the intersection???

Weight, the semi probably 4 times heavier than the bus. Front of the bus hit the side of the trailer as it was halfway through the intersection. The tractor was not damaged at impact, only damage the tractor received was when it flopped on its side.

Whatever happened, all our speculation won't change a thing.

[Looper]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Weight, the semi probably 4 times heavier than the bus. Front of the bus hit the side of the trailer as it was halfway through the intersection. The tractor was not damaged at impact, only damage the tractor received was when it flopped on its side.

Whatever happened, all our speculation won't change a thing.

Momentum = Mass X Velocity.

Not really speculation. 63,500kg's starting from a dead stop then broadsided could not possibly end up where it did.

Looper

[BloodHound70]

100% agree.
The NB momentum of the bus and the WB momentum of the truck is what dragged them to the point of rest on the NW side of the highway. Simple physics.
If the truck began moving from a dead stop onto the roadway, the bus would have A: recognized the hazard and stopped in time before that much truck ended up on the road, or B: Hit the truck in the side of the tractor and not in the trailer.

BH

[Roderek]

Originally Posted by Looper

I've seen this response many times on social media.

What I cant understand is how anyone can look at the pictures of the accident and not understand the momentum it took to carry the wreckage of the semi so far west past the intersection???

As stated, if he had started from a dead stop the semi would be North of the intersection not west.

Boggles the mind.


Looper

I have no doubt that the driver of the truck will be found at fault, there are not many scenarios where it doesn't land on him in some way as he had the stop sign and shouldn't have been in the intersection. However, when it comes to situations like this if the bus driver was speeding/texting, or in some other way distracted, the fault will be put on both.

As stated by another member, I am not sure it matters, it was a tragic accident that can't be undone, we just need to look forward and determine how we prevent it from happening again.

[calgarygringo]

So since I am not a physics guy but just thinking of possibilities and you guys theory is correct.....The truck was going at some kind of speed thru the stop sign how early in this whole thing would the bus driver been able to see the truck, react and slow the bus down or try to avoid. Considering he was only doing the speed limit. I dont know any info but I keep asking if and or why didnt the bus slow down when he saw the truck or was the truck really going that fast that he just flashed thru the intetsection. I just find it hard to believe he didnt have any time to react unless of course the truck was flying hhrough the stop.
Many others I have spoken to are asking the same. I dont think anyone is doubting the truck driver at fault but how come the bus didnt stop, swerve or take an erratic route to try to miss the truck. Part 2 to the mystery I guess is all.

Originally Posted by BloodHound70

100% agree.
The NB momentum of the bus and the WB momentum of the truck is what dragged them to the point of rest on the NW side of the highway. Simple physics.
If the truck began moving from a dead stop onto the roadway, the bus would have A: recognized the hazard and stopped in time before that much truck ended up on the road, or B: Hit the truck in the side of the tractor and not in the trailer.

BH

[Okotok]

Originally Posted by calgarygringo

So since I am not a physics guy but just thinking of possibilities and you guys theory is correct.....The truck was going at some kind of speed thru the stop sign how early in this whole thing would the bus driver been able to see the truck, react and slow the bus down or try to avoid. Considering he was only doing the speed limit. I dont know any info but I keep asking if and or why didnt the bus slow down when he saw the truck or was the truck really going that fast that he just flashed thru the intetsection. I just find it hard to believe he didnt have any time to react unless of course the truck was flying hhrough the stop.
Many others I have spoken to are asking the same. I dont think anyone is doubting the truck driver at fault but how come the bus didnt stop, swerve or take an erratic route to try to miss the truck. Part 2 to the mystery I guess is all.

I'd say the trees restricting both of their vision may have been a factor.

[STY181]

I have stopped at that stop sign hundreds of times and while stopped at the sign you have an unrestricted view south down the hyway

[Looper]

Originally Posted by calgarygringo

So since I am not a physics guy but just thinking of possibilities and you guys theory is correct.....The truck was going at some kind of speed thru the stop sign how early in this whole thing would the bus driver been able to see the truck, react and slow the bus down or try to avoid. Considering he was only doing the speed limit. I dont know any info but I keep asking if and or why didnt the bus slow down when he saw the truck or was the truck really going that fast that he just flashed thru the intetsection. I just find it hard to believe he didnt have any time to react unless of course the truck was flying hhrough the stop.
Many others I have spoken to are asking the same. I dont think anyone is doubting the truck driver at fault but how come the bus didnt stop, swerve or take an erratic route to try to miss the truck. Part 2 to the mystery I guess is all.

Do a drive by on Google Street View.

Will make things much clearer.

Looper

[Okotok]

Originally Posted by STY181

I have stopped at that stop sign hundreds of times and while stopped at the sign you have an unrestricted view south down the hyway

How about the bus driver? Did he have an unobstructed view also? Doesn't seem like it based on the "whoa" and then the crash a split second later. The truck obviously blew through and the bus driver didn't see it in time from the armchair I'm sitting in.

[STY181]

The bus driver could have seen the truck stopped at the stop sign and before the truck went behind the trees . The same goes for the truck driver he would have been able to see the bus approaching from the south until he went behind the trees. Even in my 1/2 ton you have to start slowing down for the stop sign before you get to the trees. One guy pushes his luck and the innocent pay the ultimate price.

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by calgarygringo

So since I am not a physics guy but just thinking of possibilities and you guys theory is correct.....The truck was going at some kind of speed thru the stop sign how early in this whole thing would the bus driver been able to see the truck, react and slow the bus down or try to avoid. Considering he was only doing the speed limit. I dont know any info but I keep asking if and or why didnt the bus slow down when he saw the truck or was the truck really going that fast that he just flashed thru the intetsection. I just find it hard to believe he didnt have any time to react unless of course the truck was flying hhrough the stop.
Many others I have spoken to are asking the same. I dont think anyone is doubting the truck driver at fault but how come the bus didnt stop, swerve or take an erratic route to try to miss the truck. Part 2 to the mystery I guess is all.

I have thought this from day one that possibly the bus driver was distracted...but I try to stay out of discussions till the final report comes in....

[Dick284]

I’ll throw my theory into the mix.

The game time in Nipewan was 7:30 or 8:00PM
The collision happened just before 5:00pm

This I know that for 7:30 games in the AJHL the teams are at the rink for 5:00PM(some even earlier). Were the Bronco’s running a bit late? Even for an 8:00PM game I’d say they were at least 30 mins behind schedule. If this presumption proves correct, I think the bus was doing a tad over the speed limit.

Secondly, the truck driver was greener than grass. I’d say he blew a shift accelerating from the stop sign.

The bus driver likely calculated that the truck and trailers would have cleared the intersection in time, but the blown shift likely upset his mental calculations, and well we know the rest.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Looper

Momentum = Mass X Velocity.

Not really speculation. 63,500kg's starting from a dead stop then broadsided could not possibly end up where it did.

Looper

Obviously, I didn't say it was stopped or starting out, I said it was heavier than the bus and was hit in the trailer, obviously it was moving at at a speed fast enough and was heavy enough to direct them both to the west of the intersection.

[Sundog57]

Take a look at the intersection on google maps
There is a shelter belt on the South East corner of the intersection that blocks any view of traffic coming from the East to a Northbound driver and any traffic coming from the South to a Westbound driver.
Someone screwed up
No one had time to react
Awful

[Jigger]

Originally Posted by Sundog57

Take a look at the intersection on google maps
There is a shelter belt on the South East corner of the intersection that blocks any view of traffic coming from the East to a Northbound driver and any traffic coming from the South to a Westbound driver.
Someone screwed up
No one had time to react
Awful

There are many intersections like this one in rural Alberta and Saskatchewan, there is a sizable gap between the road and the trees, the westbound driver has a stop sign and clearly if a driver come to a complete stop can see a very long ways south. Those trees are a non issue if every westbound driver stops at the stop sign......

[Wolftrapper]

The drivers actions, road conditions, etc are only a part of an investigation like this.
Mechanical issues are a big one. What if the brakes failed, etc. That would be a defence so everything has to be verified by experts. Takes awhile.
Also health issues. Suspect driver says he suffered a mild heart attack. Have to rule these things out and be prepared to defend them before a judge.
Any reasonable doubt the case is gone....then what.
Very complicated.

[Ranger CS]

Has anyone seen the name of the either of the drivers reported by the media or released by the RCMP? I have not and wonder why.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

"Maybe this ..maybe that.." pretty well sums up the AO investigation.

As you say I agree that this was a Horrible tragedy and for sure can not be rewound or erased but in the interest of minimizing the likelihood of it happening again I am willing to wait for the conclusion of a reliable investigation.

Highly unlikely that the conclusion will prevent this from happening again.
This isn't an aviation crash investigation.
The pic's of the scene say a lot.
It'll help if the trucker is truthful.

[ctd]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I’ll throw my theory into the mix.

The game time in Nipewan was 7:30 or 8:00PM
The collision happened just before 5:00pm

This I know that for 7:30 games in the AJHL the teams are at the rink for 5:00PM(some even earlier). Were the Bronco’s running a bit late? Even for an 8:00PM game I’d say they were at least 30 mins behind schedule. If this presumption proves correct, I think the bus was doing a tad over the speed limit.

Secondly, the truck driver was greener than grass. I’d say he blew a shift accelerating from the stop sign.

The bus driver likely calculated that the truck and trailers would have cleared the intersection in time, but the blown shift likely upset his mental calculations, and well we know the rest.

I never even thought about the truck driver blowing a shift easy to do with that load and not knowing the truck.
How I feel is the Police are having a hard time determining actual fault. The swarms of Racist people have already made up their mind in the situation.
They want blood for the driver and the owner.

The owner has to keep rolling, he has bills to pay like anyone else. Yet he is ridiculed for trying to keep food on his table and roof over his head. Yet the Bus company never had their operating certificate suspended pending investigation.

I have never heard of company being suspended indefinitely unless they had sever violations prior to and or including for the accident until the investigation is completed and fault found. This does not seem to be the case.

Until the facts are known we wont know.
I feel ashamed at all the racist comments made about the driver and the truck owner here and on other sites.
Absolutely sickening,

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

Not sure if anyone else caught it but when this tragic event happened a reporter reenacted what possibly took place. It looked like a blind intersection and undue care and attention were at fault to me.

[sillyak]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I’ll throw my theory into the mix.

The game time in Nipewan was 7:30 or 8:00PM
The collision happened just before 5:00pm

This I know that for 7:30 games in the AJHL the teams are at the rink for 5:00PM(some even earlier). Were the Bronco’s running a bit late? Even for an 8:00PM game I’d say they were at least 30 mins behind schedule. If this presumption proves correct, I think the bus was doing a tad over the speed limit.

Secondly, the truck driver was greener than grass. I’d say he blew a shift accelerating from the stop sign.

The bus driver likely calculated that the truck and trailers would have cleared the intersection in time, but the blown shift likely upset his mental calculations, and well we know the rest.

My theory is similar

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by ctd

I have never heard of company being suspended indefinitely unless they had sever violations prior to and or including for the accident until the investigation is completed and fault found.

Interesting, would they have shut down Day & Ross, Bison, TransX, Arrow, etc if it were one of their drivers involved?