Whitetail general tag - proof of sex

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Page 29 general regs number 9 read it and page 41

LOL!!!! I know what the regs say. What use is this regulation?????

[freeride]

I gave you an example why that regulation exists

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by freeride

To make sure the head matches the meat of course.
Think of this... if you hike back into an area and shoot a big buck/elk/moose they want to make sure you took the big body with you too, and didn't substitute in a small female to haul less meat out.

This is a terrible example. If it gets to that point, they will use DNA.
What happens if your shoot a female deer with antlers????

[elkhunter11]

When it comes right down to it, even if we can't see any justification for a regulation , we are still required to comply with the regulation.

[LeonH]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Depending on where you are hunting however, as in 518, etc. All you would need is a tail as a general white tail can be either antelered or antlerless.
In the case of a supplimental however , you get into a gray area so I would keep evidence of sex in that car.
Cat

This is why I was confused as this was in 337 and general tag is ok for antlered or antlerless. But CO had issued a warning still

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by LeonH

This is why I was confused as this was in 337 and general tag is ok for antlered or antlerless. But CO had issued a warning still

Read the regs you need evidence of sec regardless of WMU I posted the page numbers earlier

[LeonH]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Some areas open early for buck only well others are either sex WMU 330 for example

Personally I don’t see what is so hard about leaving evidence of sex or head attached

Yes 330 and also 328 too, in fact 337 borders them basically but CO did have actually inspected the kill spot which was not that far where my friend was packing the animal. It was basically a short drag out of the bush.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by LeonH

Yes 330 and also 328 too, in fact 337 borders them basically but CO did have actually inspected the kill spot which was not that far where my friend was packing the animal. It was basically a short drag out of the bush.

You need evidence of sex regardless what WMU you are in read page 41 in the regs and page 29 section 9 big game general regs

[LeonH]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Read the regs you need evidence of sec regardless of WMU I posted the page numbers earlier

I get it man, no need to repeat yourself hundred times. I think this is great point to educate hunters so no mistakes are ever made.

Looking back over the years I think I came very close in making this mistake once. In my case it was in 350 and I killed a large 5x5. Got it to the truck with no issue so I cleaned it and removed sex organs in process but when it came time to load it in to the box of my truck I was struggling so much that I considered it to cut it up in smaller chunks but I did end up somehow able to drag it in over the tailgate in one piece. That is basically what I am saying, that hopefully people will learn from this experience.

Since my friend’s experience, I personally did change what I leave on as a proof of sex and how I gut a whitetail.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by huntwat

There is no regulation that says a head has to be attached to the body.

If you remove the sex organs you certainly do…

LC

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

If you remove the sex organs you certainly do…

LC

Yes. According to the regs. My point is, why?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by huntwat

Yes. According to the regs. My point is, why?

If asked, you have to provide the WMU it was shot in. Some WMU only allow antlered to be shot… so if you take the sex organs off while gutting you better leave the head attached to prove what it was. You also have to transfer the head with certain animals as per the regs. Show up to a butcher with a carcass without proof of sex and species and they typically won’t take it.

LC

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

If asked, you have to provide the WMU it was shot in. Some WMU only allow antlered to be shot… so if you take the sex organs off while gutting you better leave the head attached to prove what it was. You also have to transfer the head with certain animals as per the regs. Show up to a butcher with a carcass without proof of sex and species and they typically won’t take it.

LC

A doe can have antlers.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by huntwat

A doe can have antlers.

Yes… and if you remove the milk sacs or sex organs and you have an “antlered” license & tag on it… you better leave the head attached.

LC

[freeride]

Originally Posted by huntwat

This is a terrible example. If it gets to that point, they will use DNA.
What happens if your shoot a female deer with antlers????

I don't care if you think it's a terrible example because it's happened in the past. There are many many states that you need to prove sex of animal on the meat as well.

And yes they do use DNA to prove poaching as well.

[macee]

Originally Posted by huntwat

Really? There is separate tags for male and female deer?

Antlerless is draw only so a general white tailed deer tag can only be used on a antlered whitetail so yes they are separate tags.

[huntwat]

This is actually getting more and more laughable. There is no good reason to have a regulation to have to keep sexual proof on antlered or horned game. I will leave it at that.

[freeride]

With elk there are many zones that are 3pt or more or cow for archery. By leaving the sex attached you can prove you got a cow vs a spike or fork horn and leaving the head in the bush.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by freeride

With elk there are many zones that are 3pt or more or cow for archery. By leaving the sex attached you can prove you got a cow vs a spike or fork horn and leaving the head in the bush.

Wrong!

[freeride]

Originally Posted by huntwat

Wrong!

Lol. I gave you two examples, all you can say is wrong or that's stupid. Fact is they were both viable situations. That you can't logically deny so just saying wrong proves nothing.

I am out as I can see this is pointless.

To all others follow the regulations as pointed out earlier, really not hard to do and saves you a lot of headaches and/or fines

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by freeride

Lol. I gave you two examples, all you can say is wrong or that's stupid. Fact is they were both viable situations. That you can't logically deny so just saying wrong proves nothing.

I am out as I can see this is pointless.

To all others follow the regulations as pointed out earlier, really not hard to do and saves you a lot of headaches and/or fines

You missed his (very valid) point. He just tried to get it across so poorly it ended up missing the mark.

Fact is I agree with him. When there’s no male/female tags it’s literally useless to leave sex identification on a quartered or whole animal. The regulation is ridiculous. If a CO has his doubts, he can get a dna sample to ensure the head matches the animal.

We should be tagging the head of all animals killed. It would make 1000x more sense

That all said the current Regs aren’t hard to follow.

[Ken3134]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

When it comes right down to it, even if we can't see any justification for a regulation , we are still required to comply with the regulation.

X2 Exactly………

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by huntwat

A doe can have antlers.

Yes they have been known to have antlers and bucks have been found with both sets of sex organs but these are abnormalities not the rule.
Don't forget as well the latest internet craze about people posting pics and asking if the buck is a white tail/ mule cross!
I do not know what all the fuss is about really.....
As far as :being given a warning", that means absolutely nothing . There is no charge, no fine , nothing
The only time it would probably matter is if there were multiple animals in the truck , but a wise man is going to cover his bases and not get into a pizzing match, have his animal(s) confiscated while DNA tests are done then go to court just to prove a point
Cat

[fishnguy]

How many people on this forum have shot an antlered doe before? Lol.

My guess is the “antlered” and “antlerless” come from the population control as in they want so many bucks/bulls and so many does/cows taken out, but they don’t really care if you harvest a fawn/calf instead of a doe/cow. Then, when they further want to control the age of the male species (or bulls) taken out of the population, they add points and whatever. If they differentiated tags by sex, you wouldn't be able to harvest a female fawn with a buck license and vice versa, if that was your thing. No?

How come no one asked what if you have an antlerless tag attached to a male deer because his antlers were under 4 inches in length? Well, probably because in all likelihood that would be a fawn. Just like if you have an antlerless tag attached to a female, in all likelihood she wasn’t antlered. That is why you do not need the head, nobody really cares. How many bucks over 1 year old have antlers shorter than 4 inches? If you happened to shoot one of those though, you better bring the head with you, lol. You’d probably have as hard times proving antlers were under 4 inches in length on a buck that isn’t a fawn without a head as you would have proving that the doe had antlers and longer than that same length to boot.

As for tagging the head, while it makes sense in some circumstances, it doesn’t in others. For example, why would I want to tag a cow elk’s head and carry it out of the deep valley, far out, to only dump it a day or a few later? Same goes for does even, or bucks that I think the effort of getting the head out of where I shot it is not worth having it.

I also very much doubt that there would be many people who would shoot a great bull, take the head and then shoot a cow just so that they can carry less meat. That’s dumb. Why wouldn’t they just get rid of some meat to begin with if that was an issue? I don't know, but I would assume the penalty for wasting meat would be less than the penalty for wasting meat and hunting without a license. Sounds ridiculous.

I don’t know, seems like people are making it out way more complicated than it really is. Also, reminded me of the covid thread, lol.

[Chuck_Wagon]

It's a rather straight forward process to follow the regulations for retaining the evidence of sex on a big game animal, regardless if it is whole or boned out.
It's spelled out clearly in the regulations.

Discussion about different tags in varying WMU's are meaningless.
A hunter could take an animal in a particular WMU and then drive past a dozen different WMU's on the way home. If checked by a F&W officer how are they to know for sure what WMU the animal was taken from.

[Smokinyotes]

I put the tag on one hind qtr of a bull moose one time and then when I split it left the sex organs on the other qtr. After realizing what I had done I figured I better leave the head on one side. Now I can only half the moose and not qtr it.

So the moose hung in camp for a few days and froze solid. Then when we went to leave I had a half a moose with the head on so probably at least 10’ long in the back of my short box pickup. It was almost embarrassing driving down the highway. bottom line is I’ve never had an issue since leaving evidence of sex on.

[boonedocks]

Here’s my hypothetical situation. What about “ button bucks,” that are harvested using an antlerless tag? I know that body size would be a give away but am I right in thinking that the head should remain attached to the carcass as the evidence of sex would technically be wrong?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by boonedocks

Here’s my hypothetical situation. What about “ button bucks,” that are harvested using an antlerless tag? I know that body size would be a give away but am I right in thinking that the head should remain attached to the carcass as the evidence of sex would technically be wrong?

Sex has nothing to do with the antlerless designation so certainly you want the head attached if you are using an antlerless tag
Cat

[boonedocks]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Sex has nothing to do with the antlerless designation so certainly you want the head attached if you are using an antlerless tag
Cat

This is my thought too, it is relevant to me this year as we are doing a backpack mule deer hunt so everything is coming out quartered , at the least. Unlike most years where we pull them out whole. I’ll back some garbage bags to wrap around the heads. Thx for the reassurance Cat!!

[aragor764]

I am curious how you leave the head "attached" when packing out?