Range report

[RolHammer]

Range report from those first handloads (.223 V-Max 55 gr over Varget).

Set things up for nine charge weights (25, 25.2, 25.5, 25.7, 26, 26.2, 26.5, 26.7, 27gr) & labelled everything. The 27's were compressed & had shown signs of creeping out a bit, so I brought my press with me to the range. After each group, while I was waiting for the rifle to cool back to ambient, I ran the next group through the seating die and rechecked with the comparator.

Only had one flinch-y shot - the last one on the 26 gr target that made the flyer you see there. Other than that, I'd say this was my 'honest best' technique & used a rest to try and 'factor me out.'

After finishing a group I checked the case base diameters for that group and looked for pressure signs on case heads. Everything stayed steady at 0.375-0.376" & not really any primer flattening or ejector prints. Bolt was never heavy at any point through all of this. I cycled everything through the magazine vs. single-loading, so I know there won't be any surprises there.

I'd thoroughly cleaned the rifle last night, so I fired some fouling shots before getting started. I was also curious how commercial ammo would did in a direct side-by-side with these handloads. So, the fouling shots were done as a group of five (that's the 'Pre' group) and then - curious if there might be some skewing as my technique on the rest got better as I went through this - did a final group of five (that's the 'Post' group). The commercial ammo was Remington UMC 55 gr FMJ and I gave the Pre/Post groups every bit of the care I did the test groups. Interesting to see the custom/commercial group size in direct comparison like this.


25 gr



25.2 gr



25.5 gr



25.7 gr



26 gr



26.2 gr



26.5 gr



26.7 gr



27 gr



Pre (fouling)



Post



Now, to my eye all of these groups look like a notable improvement over the commercial 'control groups.' But, because the point of the exercise is to locate the pick of the litter, the 25.2 and 26 gr groups appear to be the standouts (factoring out the flyer from the 26 gr group). The 27 gr group looks good too, but there was a bit of creep in COAL d/t the compression and, speaking subjectively, I'm kind of hoping not to use this one.

Does anyone else see something different here?

[260 Rem]

Good start there Rol. Sometimes start points are not clear with single groups but I think you are on the right track to load up a couple of groups with 26gr.
Edit: The benefit of shooting double charge weight groups is that you can see if the group is the same shape. If it strings on both it makes it easier to rule out.

[barsik]

those groups mean something only if every shot taken was "good". I see some decent groups that have flyer or two, that usually means your rifle needs to be massaged a bit. I think you have a bedding issue.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by barsik

those groups mean something only if every shot taken was "good". I see some decent groups that have flyer or two, that usually means your rifle needs to be massaged a bit. I think you have a bedding issue.

Given that some of those fliers were well to the left but at the same height as the other shots, I would suspect shooting form more than a bedding issue.

[260 Rem]

When I get too much vertical, I think inconsistent velocity. When I get too much horizontal, I think me.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

When I get too much vertical, I think inconsistent velocity. When I get too much horizontal, I think me.

I agree on the horizontal, that is why those fliers to the left have me thinking shooting form.

When I see a group that is tight except for one flier, I load up that recipe and shoot another group or two, to see if the flier was really load related or if it was due to shooting form.

[Dick284]

When I see this sort of vertical stringing it's usually related to form and or equipment.
Rear bag squeezing, swivel stud interference, or poorly filled or designed bags.

Not knowing the OP's set up, and tempering that with the fact he's new to much of this, really throws up a pile more questions .

[tchardy1972]

At what range/distance were the groups shot at?

[Dean2]

If you pull and weigh some of the bullets from your factory ammo you will easily see why it shoots so poor. The bullets they use in the UMC ammo can have up to 10 grains difference in weight, being + or - 5 grains form the 55 grain nominal. Fine for spraying out of an AR but no where near good enough for accurate bolt guns.

Like the others, I would suggest you need to work on our shooting form. I would also suggest you want to try a faster powder like CF223 or Benchmark. Compressed loads in a 223 don't usually work well unless you are crimping the bullets. Finally, try shooting your test groups through a Chrono. It will help tell you whether the vertical is velocity differences/SD or bedding/shooter related.

[RolHammer]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

When I get too much vertical, I think inconsistent velocity. When I get too much horizontal, I think me.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I agree on the horizontal, that is why those fliers to the left have me thinking shooting form.

Originally Posted by Dick284

When I see this sort of vertical stringing it's usually related to form and or equipment.

Thanks for chiming in guys. The thoughts on the vertical dispersion are a little confusing.

[RolHammer]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Not knowing the OP's set up, and tempering that with the fact he's new to much of this, really throws up a pile more questions .

No doubt!

OK, a discussion of materials and methods is always useful, so here goes. Here's a description of how I approached this. Let me know if I'm doing anything wrong here.

In terms of equipment, for this test I used a Caldwell Rock front rest and Deadshot rear bag (this set):



As the rear bag is kind of height-limited, I built a ~3" support from plywood that I covered in leather for the rear bag to sit on.

Normally, I usually only use a Deadshot front bag and forego a rear support. So, because this was a new setup for me I experimented a bit before getting started. I wanted to see where I needed to sit the stock on the rear bag to ensure it wasn't constraining the rifle from moving fore/aft. I found the best spot was the 'ears' bag sitting between the bottom of the grip and the sling stud.

I then fiddled with found the point with the rear bag and its support where I found I wasn't fighting them.

Once I was happy with this, to ensure repeatability, I set and locked the 'L' fixture on the front rest in place. After this, I made sure to register the forend back onto this point & make sure the rear bags were in the same spot on the stock.

Then, I wanted to get a feel for what dialing in vertically to the target using the jack screw was like. I found I could come up (I decided to always approach from below) and have the reticle sit fairly steadily on the target with the rifle shouldered. Following that, I dry-fired a number of times to see how pulling the trigger affected crosshair stability. I could see with this that I tended to make the reticle yaw counterclockwise. Fiddling a bit, I could see that it was because of the way I was squeezing my hand as I was pulling the trigger. I kept at this until I found a balance point where I was hardly deflecting the reticle as I squeezed the trigger back.

The last step above was done after having exhaled and holding my breath. Based on advice I've seen here and elsewhere, I would take 2-3 breaths & let the last one out and holding it, letting the trigger release surprise me.

Mostly happy with things at this point, I proceeded on with the test with this technique. As mentioned in the OP, to ensure there wasn't any sort of unintentional 'evolution' of the technique from beginning to end, I sandwiched the test groups between the Pre- and Post- groups as controls.

When I was actually firing, I would try and hold my position for a moment after shot, as threads here have discussed the adverse effect of 'head lift'. After that brief pause, I would reposition, chamber the next round and begin again. Without rushing, I tried to make sure the amount of time each round was allowed to reside in the chamber was uniform and not excessive. Other writers have described the effect of 'allowing the round to cook in a heated chamber' and I wanted to avoid that.

After each group, I fiddled with the stuff I mentioned in the OP in order to allow the barrel and chamber to cool.

[RolHammer]

Originally Posted by tchardy1972

At what range/distance were the groups shot at?

This was at SPFGA on the 100 m board at the Overflow Range.

[RolHammer]

Originally Posted by Dean2

If you pull and weigh some of the bullets from your factory ammo you will easily see why it shoots so poor. The bullets they use in the UMC ammo can have up to 10 grains difference in weight, being + or - 5 grains form the 55 grain nominal. Fine for spraying out of an AR but no where near good enough for accurate bolt guns.
That's very interesting. Didn't know that & am slightly surprised at the lack of uniformity. I figured it'd be tighter than that.

Like the others, I would suggest you need to work on our shooting form.
Yup, definitely.

I would also suggest you want to try a faster powder like CF223 or Benchmark.
I went back and looked at the two references I started with this and neither mentioned CFE223. I picked Varget because of the comments I'd seen regarding its relative temperature intolerance. A number of people have mentioned CFE223 now though & I'm intrigued. I'm going to give it a look too at some point.

Compressed loads in a 223 don't usually work well unless you are crimping the bullets. Finally, try shooting your test groups through a Chrono. It will help tell you whether the vertical is velocity differences/SD or bedding/shooter related.

I don't have a chrony at this point. A friend does though & I was thinking I might narrow my search range a little before making use of it.

[RolHammer]

A number of people have PM'd me about my target & I thought I'd talk about that. Not entirely happy with what I was able to find online, I used a basic design I found & did like and built what I came up with around that. I know literally nothing about rational target design, I just noticed how I was using the reticle and what target features helped me the most.

This is the target itself. I tiled eight of these 2x4 on a piece of 22x28" poster board.

I don't know if this will work, but I'll try attaching the PDF to this post for anyone who's interested to download it. If this doesn't work, PM me and I can send it to you.

[Davey Boy]

Target worked for me thanks RH.

[bigjohncdn]

Did you happen to note which shot was "cold barrel" for each group? Or did you just continue shooting with minimal cooling times? Would be interesting to know if your fliers were related to barrel temp.

[RolHammer]

Originally Posted by bigjohncdn

Did you happen to note which shot was "cold barrel" for each group? Or did you just continue shooting with minimal cooling times? Would be interesting to know if your fliers were related to barrel temp.

OK, now that's a great thought! No, I didn't take note of that but am kind of wishing now that I had. I started each group with the gun at ambient & worked my way through the five shots. There was minimal cooling time between shots.

I wonder if maybe doing a simple sketch at the bench as each group forms might work. Then, I could just take that & number the shots in the actual group itself. That could be useful trying to decipher things.

[bigjohncdn]

Yes, tracking where each shot went is important in determining exactly what goes on with a gun/load. Particularly since you are beginning each group at ambient temp. Be sure to note any rounds where you feel you influenced the shot placement with a pull or movement at trigger break.

[fish_e_o]

i was beside you at the range you had your lee press beside you clamped on the table. nifty set-up.

hello nice to meet you.

try to slow down your shooting.

also yes the target is not great i usually take a blank piece of paper and put a dot on it with a sharpie the size of the dot depends on the size of the reticle on the scope.

[RolHammer]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i was beside you at the range

Were you the fellow with the .308 semi-auto when I was getting started, or the fellow with the Savage with wood furniture as I was finishing up?

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by RolHammer

Were you the fellow with the .308 semi-auto when I was getting started, or the fellow with the Savage with wood furniture as I was finishing up?

i had the goofy looking model 70 with the 30.5" long barrel. i was the one timing my shots and complaining about how cold it was

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i had the goofy looking model 70 with the 30.5" long barrel. i was the one timing my shots and complaining about how cold it was

Shoot fast, warm hands on barrel.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

Shoot fast, warm hands on barrel.

haha that's what i ended up doing later with my 204. i decided to practice free hand shots and then i just held the barrel for a little bit

[RolHammer]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

complaining about how cold it was

Yeah, the wind funnelling down between the berms got right chilly after a while. My son finally tossed in the towel at one point and said he'd wait in the car for me to finish.

[Bergerboy]

Rolhammer, can I ask what you are using for a rifle and optics?

[RolHammer]

Sure - Savage Model 16 w Monarch 3 4-16x42.