An interesting view of rememberance day.

[Peter Abelard]

I just got back from a cafe, where a stranger struck up a coversation with me.

He had an interesting perspective on rememberance day: He felt that Canada was never under threat from Germany, and that we were roped into fighting England's war.

Moreso, he felt the Oceans provide natural fortifications, and are our best defence.

Interesting. Not sure what to make of it, but appreciated hearing a different perspective.

I lost family in WWI. My family were longtime victims of the English, and I can't imagine they would have gone if not for the mandatory conscription at the time.

It's ironic, we talk about fighting for freedom, but they were forced by another nation to fight a war they had little stake in.

[catnthehat]

Total BS!
First off we were not roped into anything we were part of the Commonwealth .
Secondly , we had subs on the East Coast and enemy aircraft have been found on the west coast!
Sounds like some jerk know it all!
Cat

[Peter Abelard]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Total BS!
First off we were not roped into anything we were part of the Commonwealth .
Secondly , we had subs on the East Coast and enemy aircraft have been found on the west coast!
Sounds like some jerk know it all!
Cat

Ok. Good info. I had no idea Germany had such reach in WWI, but if I see the guy again, I'll let him know.

[robson3954]

Originally Posted by Peter Abelard

Ok. Good info. I had no idea Germany had such reach in WWI, but if I see the guy again, I'll let him know.

They didn't have that reach in WWI.
If I'm not mistaken, in WWI Canada did have to go along with what England asked. The British Empire declared war on Germany which we were included in. In WWII it was on our own accord.

[CaberTosser]

Here's a link to the HMCS Valleyfield, upon which my paternal Grandmothers brother was lost after it was torpedoed by a U-boat off the coast of Newfoundland. My Uncle is noted in the link, Edward Strachan. His fathers (my Great Grandpa's) gold Omega pocket watch with Masonic embellishments is beside me as I type this:

http://naval-museum.mb.ca/battle-of-...s-valleyfield/

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by robson3954

They didn't have that reach in WWI.
If I'm not mistaken, in WWI Canada did have to go along with what England asked. The British Empire declared war on Germany which we were included in. In WWII it was on our own accord.

WWI,WW2 , whatever both were WORLD WARS!
NOT ONE of my numerous relatives has ever been conscripted, drafted or otherwise roped into serving OUR country and if anyone wants to try and disparage that fact because they are spineless cowards they can go screw themselves !
I can read or write because of teachers - I can read and write in English because of soldiers who served and spilled their blood so I could live free.
Anybody who wants to take issue with that had better not start spouting that crap in my presence!
Cat

[Grizzly Adams]

Moot argument, time would have involved Canada even without any connection to Britain, it was a war about ideologies after all. Hesitation might have been fatal in the long run . Enough Ass dragging by the Western powers as it was. If the League of Nations had any real teeth and intervened during one of the earlier crisis, there might not have been a second war.

Grizz

[CaberTosser]

The fellow the OP had a conversation with may be a reincarnation of Neville Chamberlain, because appeasement always makes the bad guys stop!

To quote Bugs Bunny regarding that fellow, "What a maroon!"

[Kos]

Originally Posted by Peter Abelard

I just got back from a cafe, where a stranger struck up a coversation with me.

He had an interesting perspective on rememberance day: He felt that Canada was never under threat from Germany, and that we were roped into fighting England's war.

Moreso, he felt the Oceans provide natural fortifications, and are our best defence.

Interesting. Not sure what to make of it, but appreciated hearing a different perspective.

I lost family in WWI. My family were longtime victims of the English, and I can't imagine they would have gone if not for the mandatory conscription at the time.

It's ironic, we talk about fighting for freedom, but they were forced by another nation to fight a war they had little stake in.

He is right. Canadian men fought for Britain as a colonial army. There was no thread to Canada. There was a thread to the British Empire.
Sad truth.
But not to many are interested in the truth.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Kos

He is right. Canadian men fought for Britain as a colonial army. There was no thread to Canada. There was a thread to the British Empire.
Sad truth.
But not to many are interested in the truth.

REALLY?? You actually figure that? And because there was not some supposed "threat" as you put it, we should not have entered the wars?
Go stick your head back in the sand!
Cat

[riden]

I believe they were called the Zimmerman telegrams.

Telegrams were intercepted where Germany offered a deal to Mexico. Invade the US before they join WWI and they would be given New Mexico and Texas back, after the US was defeated.

Oceans protecting us is a weak argument.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by Kos

He is right. Canadian men fought for Britain as a colonial army. There was no thread to Canada. There was a thread to the British Empire.
Sad truth.
But not to many are interested in the truth.

How could there have been a threat (not thread, misspelled twice) to the British Empire without there also being a threat to Canada? Your own words are contradictory because the two were one in the same. My dead Great Uncle who died about 50 miles south of the red dot on this map would contradict you had he survived being torpedoed in that area of the ocean right off our own coast.

https://goo.gl/maps/phpoxACpbs92

People who say "but after they defeated those countries they'd stop and not come after us" are deluded. Did Japan stop their expansion anywhere in the south Pacific before they bombed Pearl Harbor? Would they have stopped at all if the US had not struck back with such a vengeance? Germany was going after Russia for Pete's sake, if they'd invade Russia what would stop them from doing the same absolutely anywhere else? The only thing that really stopped Germany was biting off more than they could chew, had they only invaded east they might well have succeeded. History is rich with nations that kept on with their invasions & conquests right up until there was an army that could stop them. Pretending that such successful armies would stop voluntarily 'just because' is the stuff of fantasy.

[Sushi]

Its very important that you understand this to be total nonsense and rubbish. German subs were sighted in Canadian waters. My grandfather used to roll depth charges out of patrol aircraft into the Halifax harbour to deter Uboat entry.

And, along the US seaboard, U-853 sunk at least two US navy ships right along the eastern seaboard of North America, one only 3 miles offshore of Maine in between Nova Scotia and Maine. And, the Pearl Harbour attack, also in North America, is more proof that the Axis were coming for us.

[Cowboy coffee]

The histories of the regiments of canada and their battle honours. Trump that wogs opinion. Go **** up rope if you think our lands weren’t touched by the Nazi’s.

[RandyBoBandy]

We're surrounded by DUM-DUM's...Holocaust didn't happen, Landing on the Moon didn't happen, 911 inside job...goes on and on..

[wolf308]

Ruff

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Kos

He is right. Canadian men fought for Britain as a colonial army. There was no thread to Canada. There was a thread to the British Empire.
Sad truth.
But not to many are interested in the truth.

No, Canada was not a colony, it was called the Dominion of Canada, functionally independent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion

Strange it takes a German to point that out.

Grizz

[Bushrat]

Germans had a weather station on the coast of Labrador and many other offshore islands in the north Atlantic to monitor weather patterns to figure what routes merchant marine ships were most likely to be taking in order to attack supply ships heading to Europe. Ever hear of the battle of the St. Lawrence where several U-boats during the course of WW2 sank supply ships in the St.Lawrence river.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...e_St._Lawrence

Speaking of the OP's friend does he realize that if Canadians at the start of the war and the Americans who joined in later on did not jump into WW2 that it was very likely the Germans would have successfully conquered Europe. If that had taken place what does he think would have happened after that. If the Japanese were not stopped(they had already killed over 13 million Chinese, Indo Chinese, Phillipinos, and others in the Pacific Rim countries), and had attacked Hawaii at Pearl Harbour, if the Germans and Japanese were successful and not stopped does he think they would have take their ball and went home after they took over Hawaii and the Pacific Rim and China. It was called a World War for a reason.

Ask your friend what he thinks a map of the world would look like if it were not for Canadians, Americans and all of the other Allies intervening. Your friend probably think the Evil Americans were wrong in dropping nukes on Japan and killing 100,000 japs, well it stopped that war in it's tracks and probably saved millions upon millions more lives, nobody seems to remember that the Japs had already killed those 10 - 13 million pacific rim citizens and Chinese and were very unlikely to stop there. If the Japs or Germans had Atom bombs/nukes they would have used them and not stopped using them. They were on the verge of developing them, its just a darn good thing we got them up and running first.

[Jack Hardin]

After sinking U boats they have found that some of the German corpses had ticket stubs for NHL games in Montreal, and ticket stubs from dances in Halifax. In 1943 my mother and I (I was too young to remember but this is what she said happened) went to visit my Dad who was in the RCAF stationed at Yarmouth, NS. While crossing the Bay of Fundy from St John, NB to Digby, NS a German U boat surfaced alongside, looked the ferry over and submerged again. She said women were screaming and crying thinking they were going to be torpedoed. My Dad said that at one point they actually boarded the ferry, looked it over and determined that it wasn't a threat and left it alone.

Quebec City had wooden cannons facing the St Lawrence River hoping to deter German ships from coming up the river. An Air Force friend of mine who was older than me said when they lived in Halifax during the war, they were under blackout conditions.

Yes the enemy were here.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Kos

He is right. Canadian men fought for Britain as a colonial army. There was no thread to Canada. There was a thread to the British Empire.
Sad truth.
But not to many are interested in the truth.

There is an obligation for allies to join the fight. It's not the time to stick your head in the sand. It's not the time for the "enlightened" to fall back on words like...…."it doesn't affect me". It's the time for good men and women to stand up for what is right. Joining our greatest ally at the time, Great Britain, was the right thing to do. Imagine Europe without a Great Britain. Imagine what Europe would look like today without the sacrifices of the Allied powers.

A Canadian should understand this.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by Peter Abelard

I just got back from a cafe, where a stranger struck up a coversation with me.

He had an interesting perspective on rememberance day: He felt that Canada was never under threat from Germany, and that we were roped into fighting England's war.

Moreso, he felt the Oceans provide natural fortifications, and are our best defence.

Interesting. Not sure what to make of it, but appreciated hearing a different perspective.

I lost family in WWI. My family were longtime victims of the English, and I can't imagine they would have gone if not for the mandatory conscription at the time.

It's ironic, we talk about fighting for freedom, but they were forced by another nation to fight a war they had little stake in.

Originally Posted by Kos

He is right. Canadian men fought for Britain as a colonial army. There was no thread to Canada. There was a thread to the British Empire.
Sad truth.
But not to many are interested in the truth.

How nice that you two "strangers" had a chance to strike up a conversation in a cafe today. That being said, you picked the absolute wrong day to post such controversial nonsense. You have both posted for no other reason than to needlessly stir up feelings that many on this board don't want, or need to deal with today. It was in poor taste, and you have done nothing more than crap on the memories of fallen Canadian soldiers. Philosophers and logicians such as "Peter Abelard" should learn to preach their rubbish elsewhere. If you're so inclined to discuss and debate the merits of Canada's foray into WWI, perhaps you would be best suited to take your arguments to the nearest Royal Canadian Legion or military base. You would probably have the opportunity to debate to your hearts content with people who may have some first hand knowledge on conflict and policy.

[Spooner]

There is no reasonable justification for the meat grinder we sent generations of middle, and lower class young men to in WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam.

The poison inflicted on those men and their families is still easily recognizable today.

The military is little more than an arm of the corporatocracy.

Lest we forget that the middle class is disposable.

Believe what you need to get on in life.

[HunterDave]

When Britain declared war on Germany in 1914, all countries in the British Empire were also automatically at war. It’s similar to being a member of NATO where if one of the member countries is attacked and they invoke Charter 7 (I think it is) all NATO countries must involve themselves.

A huge number of Canadians immediately volunteered to fight the war and by 1915, 330,000 Canadians had volunteered. By the end of 1916 the number of volunteers tapered off and it was decided that conscription was necessary.

At the end of 1916 The Military Services Act was passed and conscription began in 1917. By the Armistice on November 1918, 48,000 Canadian conscripts were sent overseas and about half of them were sent to the front. Another 50,000 never left Canada and would only be necessary if the war continued into 1919.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Spooner

There is no reasonable justification for the meat grinder we sent generations of middle, and lower class young men to in WWI, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam.

The poison inflicted on those men and their families is still easily recognizable today.

The military is little more than an arm of the corporatocracy.

Lest we forget that the middle class is disposable.

Believe what you need to get on in life.

Who ties your shoes for you in the morning?

Canada is and always has been a volunteer Military. There has been conscription in WWI as I mentioned above, and a total of 16,000 Canadians were conscripted in 1944 towards the end of WWII.......everyone else was a volunteer.

Canada wasn’t involved in the Vietnam War.

Carry on......

[Halfton]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

WWI,WW2 , whatever both were WORLD WARS!
NOT ONE of my numerous relatives has ever been conscripted, drafted or otherwise roped into serving OUR country and if anyone wants to try and disparage that fact because they are spineless cowards they can go screw themselves !
I can read or write because of teachers - I can read and write in English because of soldiers who served and spilled their blood so I could live free.
Anybody who wants to take issue with that had better not start spouting that crap in my presence!
Cat

What Cat said X2.....I have a Great Uncle WW1, who was shot in the elbow at Vimy, he never did regain full use of his arm. My father was a gunner on 18lbers in the militia when WW2 broke out and was called up immediately and trained on 25lbers. I had 2 uncles who served in the RCAF, one as ground personal the other a pilot flying Wellingtons in the Mediterranean. My dad's best friend was a pilot flying Mosquitoes, my neighbor across the street flew Wellingtons the Lancasters. I have an Uncle who was in the 1st Canadian Scottish buried at Canadian War Grave Cemetery, Adegem Belgium, killed in taking back the southern Shelt Estuary in Holland. Every single one of them a volunteer for this Nation, and everyone of them a hero to me.
To have some horse's you know what, spout off the garbage on the OP original post on Remembrance Day just peaves me off to no end.

Jim

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Who ties your shoes for you in the morning?

Canada is and always has been a volunteer Military. There has been conscription in WWI as I mentioned above, and a total of 16,000 Canadians were conscripted in 1944 towards the end of WWII.......everyone else was a volunteer.

Canada wasn’t involved in the Vietnam War.

Carry on......

EditWatch this page
Canada and the Vietnam War
The Vietnam War had considerable effects on Canada – and Canada and Canadians affected the war.

The Canadian government did not officially participate in the war. However, it contributed peacekeeping forces in 1973 to help enforce the Paris Peace Accords.[1]

Privately, some Canadians contributed to the war effort. Canadian corporations sold war materiel to the Americans. In addition, at least 30,000 Canadians volunteered to serve in the American armed forces during the war. At least 134 Canadians died or were reported missing in Vietnam.

Not officially but many were there.....I served with a fella in my younger years that was there, great fella....told a young officer that was giving him the gears to not poke the bear.....

To the OP.....freedom is nice....allows a hot cup of coffee and a chat....a lot of perspectives out there.....that came with a cost.

[gunluvr]

To me, the OP isn't necessarily taking the stance of the fellow he met in a cafe, but is relaying an opinion he received as an uninformed observer. I think he posted about his experience to start a discussion that would leave him feeling better informed about the war, rather than to spread the opinion of the boob he met in a restaurant.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure the OP learned, if nothing else, not to take lightly the sacrifices made by brave men and women who came before him and made possible our current freedoms- least of all the casually forgotten importance of what those who served made possible.
We were a member of the British Commonweath at the time, but most of those who served would have regardless. Try to imagine Britain as an enslaved arm of the Third Reich, and what that would mean to Canada.
Those who posted in agreement with the OP's acquaintance, thinking we should have stayed out of the world wars are short-sighted, privileged and ungrateful receivers of the sacrifices of the "best generation".

[pat brennan]

I am surprised that so many people think our participation in WW2 was unnecessary as Germany would have left us alone. Incredibly naive, at best.
Certainly a sad commentary on their intelligence and our education system, though I guess teachers can only work with what they have.

[Father of five]

All Canadian military personnel swear an oath or make an affirmation to The Crown
The Monarch makes a request of Canada’s commander in chief, The Governor General, when the commonwealth requires assistance

The Canadian Parliament may also make a request the The Governor General for the use of Canadian Military personal

I know during ww1 and ww2 the King of England made a request of The Governor General for personal

War is horrible, peace is wonderful, unfortunately our enemies don’t know what peace is

[CaberTosser]

Even if the world wars were caused by a paranoia-du-jour group such as “the illuminati” or “the corporatocracy” or perhaps Spectre or even Dr Evils Virtucon, it doesn’t really matter who is attacking your nation and the nations you’re allied with, in the end you still either have to fight them off or surrender. It seems there are a few in every group who would sooner surrender and submit than fight, one wonders how they approach the rest of life.