What fill for shooting bags?

[HW223]

Originally Posted by bwinchg

Almost every local business that sells aggregate or sand based product was unfamiliar with zircon or chromite sand - I contacted many. Unfortunately , many of them weren't able to tell me about a similar use product either.

I am not an expert on sandbags or bench rest - a novice. That is why I am on this forum - to learn more I learned recently, one clearly needs to be careful with silica sand, when transferring it from a 50lb bag. Common sense rules when filling a sand bag from a 50lb bag - a dust cloud should be avoided. Use a small cup and then pour it slowly into a funnel.

It is too bad there isn't a local supplier for zircon or chromate sand. Many could benefit from a solid rear bag instead of using a far less superior filler.

Not very surprised by your criticism, actually expecting one or more comments like yours - wasn't born yesterday.

Acute (short term) / chronic (10 to 30 years) / accelerated (high level exposure) silicosis - you may want to read up on that.

Been in the business for over 30 years . Well aware of the dangers and effects of airborne contaminants . In reality The products under your kitchen sink are far more likely to cause you health problems than filling a couple bags with sand. Chromite is a foundry material that’s why blasting suppliers don’t supply it . Hard to find in the west . Easy to find in the east

[bwinchg]

Originally Posted by HW223

Chromite is a foundry material that’s why blasting suppliers don’t supply it . Hard to find in the west . Easy to find in the east

Why chromite sand is so hard to find locally:
Chromite Sand is a naturally occurring mineral consisting primarily of the oxides of chrome and iron. It is a by-product of ferro-chrome production and is mainly used in foundry applications and in glass production.

Thank you for explaining the rarity off finding chromite sand locally. I am assuming because of the many more steel plants in Ontario, chromite is plentiful there.

[bwinchg]

Shooting Bag / Shooting Rest Fill Options Compared :
Fill Type / Water Issues / Rodent Issues / “Heaviness” / Leak Prone

http://out-of-battery.com/shooting-b...ions-compared/

[HW223]

Originally Posted by bwinchg

Shooting Bag / Shooting Rest Fill Options Compared :
Fill Type / Water Issues / Rodent Issues / “Heaviness” / Leak Prone

http://out-of-battery.com/shooting-b...ions-compared/

More bad information and myths courtesy of the internet ,

[bwinchg]

I am a novice with benchrest , (mentioned that earlier) and may get criticized again for this post - by a few of the experts on this forum. Appears to be a normal thing on this forum - feedback from some (not all) of the experts is harsh criticism on guys trying to learn more. As a friendly reminder, we all started out as beginners at one point in our life and looked to the experts for advice. I have a lot of respect for old timers - they have a wealth of knowledge. I am not an expert on sand either but noticed health warnings one wouldn't expect or should ignore.

Silica sand is inert ,safe to use in the undisturbed form and is available from very fine to coarse. Sand with silica content is available in grades from 1% to 99% - lots of choice.

An example of "sand blasting" sand: https://www.targetproducts.com/UserC...g%20Silica.pdf

Not trying to scare anyone about "sand blasting" sand - often cheap, just bringing awareness to the safe handling of it because of the many health warnings, especially the dust component. Some of the experts found my recent post on silica sand and breathing in the fine dust part very silly and questionable. Some of us, care about our health. Dust exposure from fine sand can occur during transporting, moving, and refilling - not just when using it in a sand blasting hose - as per OHSA and NIOSH., not a myth.

A well sealed sand bag is obviously safe but when filling a smaller empty bag from a 50 lb bag, one has to be careful to not create dust. I read tonight, it helps to put a plastic liner inside homemade and Caldwell shooting bags so sand doesn't leak out. Sand inside a sand bag can get hard packed from repeated use - "fluffing", see "bart on benchrest".

I think the #1 reason why lots of guys are often using undesirable choices of filler is zircon & chromite is so hard to find. I know Brownells/Sinclair Intl (in the US) sell 15lb bags of chromite known as "heavysand", probably expensive to ship to Canada. I did an online chat to see just how expensive for shipping and they suggested I call 1-800-741-0015 for international sales.
Their website assumes all customers have US shipping addresses only - when estimating a shipping cost.

I only posted this link ("AKA - More bad information and myths courtesy of the internet "):h
ttp://out-of-battery.com/shooting-b...ions-compared/
for guys who may not realize or thought of the consequence of using rice in a sand bag = potential for mould , when the sandbag gets wet - repeatedly. I didn't agree with everything written in that article.

Not sure if this link will get criticism too - see page 13:

Bart on Benchrest , Common Bullet Faults & Fixes
https://nbrsa.org/PrecisionRifleman/..._03_online.pdf

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?54081-Bag-filler
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?58095-Heavy-sand

And if I offended the experts again , I apologize again. We all use this forum to share ideas and learn more. That is why this forum exists. There is obviously a lot of interest in this post - 1800+ views.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by bwinchg

I am a novice with benchrest , (mentioned that earlier) and may get criticized again for this post - by a few of the experts on this forum. Appears to be a normal thing on this forum - feedback from some (not all) of the experts is harsh criticism on guys trying to learn more. As a friendly reminder, we all started out as beginners at one point in our life and looked to the experts for advice. I have a lot of respect for old timers - they have a wealth of knowledge. I am not an expert on sand either but noticed health warnings one wouldn't expect or should ignore.

Silica sand is inert ,safe to use in the undisturbed form and is available from very fine to coarse. Sand with silica content is available in grades from 1% to 99% - lots of choice.

An example of "sand blasting" sand: https://www.targetproducts.com/UserC...g%20Silica.pdf

Not trying to scare anyone about "sand blasting" sand - often cheap, just bringing awareness to the safe handling of it because of the many health warnings, especially the dust component. Some of the experts found my recent post on silica sand and breathing in the fine dust part very silly and questionable. Some of us, care about our health. Dust exposure from fine sand can occur during transporting, moving, and refilling - not just when using it in a sand blasting hose - as per OHSA and NIOSH., not a myth.

A well sealed sand bag is obviously safe but when filling a smaller empty bag from a 50 lb bag, one has to be careful to not create dust. I read tonight, it helps to put a plastic liner inside homemade and Caldwell shooting bags so sand doesn't leak out. Sand inside a sand bag can get hard packed from repeated use - "fluffing", see "bart on benchrest".

I think the #1 reason why lots of guys are often using undesirable choices of filler is zircon & chromite is so hard to find. I know Brownells/Sinclair Intl (in the US) sell 15lb bags of chromite known as "heavysand", probably expensive to ship to Canada. I did an online chat to see just how expensive for shipping and they suggested I call 1-800-741-0015 for international sales.
Their website assumes all customers have US shipping addresses only - when estimating a shipping cost.

I only posted this link ("AKA - More bad information and myths courtesy of the internet "):h
ttp://out-of-battery.com/shooting-b...ions-compared/
for guys who may not realize or thought of the consequence of using rice in a sand bag = potential for mould , when the sandbag gets wet - repeatedly. I didn't agree with everything written in that article.

Not sure if this link will get criticism too - see page 13:

Bart on Benchrest , Common Bullet Faults & Fixes
https://nbrsa.org/PrecisionRifleman/..._03_online.pdf

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?54081-Bag-filler
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?58095-Heavy-sand

And if I offended the experts again , I apologize again. We all use this forum to share ideas and learn more. That is why this forum exists. There is obviously a lot of interest in this post - 1800+ views.

If you're worried about silica from filling a bag with sand, I would suggest keeping your windows up when driving on gravel roads

[HW223]

Originally Posted by bwinchg

I am a novice with benchrest , (mentioned that earlier) and may get criticized again for this post - by a few of the experts on this forum. Appears to be a normal thing on this forum - feedback from some (not all) of the experts is harsh criticism on guys trying to learn more. As a friendly reminder, we all started out as beginners at one point in our life and looked to the experts for advice. I have a lot of respect for old timers - they have a wealth of knowledge. I am not an expert on sand either but noticed health warnings one wouldn't expect or should ignore.

Silica sand is inert ,safe to use in the undisturbed form and is available from very fine to coarse. Sand with silica content is available in grades from 1% to 99% - lots of choice.

An example of "sand blasting" sand: https://www.targetproducts.com/UserC...g%20Silica.pdf

Not trying to scare anyone about "sand blasting" sand - often cheap, just bringing awareness to the safe handling of it because of the many health warnings, especially the dust component. Some of the experts found my recent post on silica sand and breathing in the fine dust part very silly and questionable. Some of us, care about our health. Dust exposure from fine sand can occur during transporting, moving, and refilling - not just when using it in a sand blasting hose - as per OHSA and NIOSH., not a myth.

A well sealed sand bag is obviously safe but when filling a smaller empty bag from a 50 lb bag, one has to be careful to not create dust. I read tonight, it helps to put a plastic liner inside homemade and Caldwell shooting bags so sand doesn't leak out. Sand inside a sand bag can get hard packed from repeated use - "fluffing", see "bart on benchrest".

I think the #1 reason why lots of guys are often using undesirable choices of filler is zircon & chromite is so hard to find. I know Brownells/Sinclair Intl (in the US) sell 15lb bags of chromite known as "heavysand", probably expensive to ship to Canada. I did an online chat to see just how expensive for shipping and they suggested I call 1-800-741-0015 for international sales.
Their website assumes all customers have US shipping addresses only - when estimating a shipping cost.

I only posted this link ("AKA - More bad information and myths courtesy of the internet "):h
ttp://out-of-battery.com/shooting-b...ions-compared/
for guys who may not realize or thought of the consequence of using rice in a sand bag = potential for mould , when the sandbag gets wet - repeatedly. I didn't agree with everything written in that article.

Not sure if this link will get criticism too - see page 13:

Bart on Benchrest , Common Bullet Faults & Fixes
https://nbrsa.org/PrecisionRifleman/..._03_online.pdf

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?54081-Bag-filler
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?58095-Heavy-sand

And if I offended the experts again , I apologize again. We all use this forum to share ideas and learn more. That is why this forum exists. There is obviously a lot of interest in this post - 1800+ views.

A little dated but Some good info there I’m curious , what is your take on the info in the links provided ?

It’s all relative to what your hoping to achieve , I’ll try to clarify the same thing ,if your just plinking then any thing will work because you will usually have bigger issues than what the bag is filled with, if your trying to get the most out of your bench set up then the fill matters and it will be zirconium or chromite and the discussion will not be about how difficult or expensive it is , it will only be “where do I get it “
Hope that helps ,good luck with your shooting and the pursuit of accuracy it can be very frustrating and very rewarding ,

[Smokinyotes]

Originally Posted by HW223

A little dated but Some good info there I’m curious , what is your take on the info in the links provided ?

It’s all relative to what your hoping to achieve , I’ll try to clarify the same thing ,if your just plinking then any thing will work because you will usually have bigger issues than what the bag is filled with, if your trying to get the most out of your bench set up then the fill matters and it will be zirconium or chromite and the discussion will not be about how difficult or expensive it is , it will only be “where do I get it “
Hope that helps ,good luck with your shooting and the pursuit of accuracy it can be very frustrating and very rewarding ,

Where do you recommend get zircon or chromite from.

[HW223]

Opta minerals , waterdown ont

[West O'5]

Originally Posted by bwinchg

I kind of expected one or more AO members to find my health warning about silica sand questionable and also laughable - no surprise with that part Many of the products we use in our hobby are classified as "industrial use" and one has to be careful with how they are used in a "non industrial environment" - with moderation and finding the right balance, of course. Those safety warnings don't suddenly disappear when used away from work. Everyone is free to choose, what they use - at their own risk.

LFMAO......we are talking about filling a couple bags with a couple pounds of sand...ONCE.
Frac crews and truckers deal with Super-B loads and thousands of tonnes of silica sand daily,you could probably snort a shooting bag full of frac sand with no ill effects,lol
OK....so probably not wise to actually snort a kilo of silica sand,but you get the point....you are NOT going to get silicosis or be overexposed to silica dust filling a shooting bag or even a hundred shooting bags,get real.

[HW223]

Update
“ Plenty O Patches “is looking into stocking heavy sand for those that are interested

[bwinchg]

Originally Posted by HW223

A little dated but Some good info there I’m curious , what is your take on the info in the links provided ?

It’s all relative to what your hoping to achieve , I’ll try to clarify the same thing ,if your just plinking then any thing will work because you will usually have bigger issues than what the bag is filled with, if your trying to get the most out of your bench set up then the fill matters and it will be zirconium or chromite and the discussion will not be about how difficult or expensive it is , it will only be “where do I get it “
Hope that helps ,good luck with your shooting and the pursuit of accuracy it can be very frustrating and very rewarding ,

I learned quickly, "where do I get it" will be my only concern for the heavy sand. I learned a lot about sands recently - more than I ever imagined or considered. I did know from the beginning, bench rest guys use a specific sand - not the run of the mill play sand. A plastic liner bag inside home made and caldwell shooting bags will keep the sand inside - from leaking. Protektor bags are sewn leather - significantly higher in quality and probably a much smaller chance with leaks.

I am pleased to have found out about NBRSA - lots of reading left to do and more bench practice & technique involved to get to a higher skill level, I am into that part. Thank you for sharing about https://www.plentyopatches.com/. I assuming it is a lot easier for a business than an individual to get heavy sand from commercial sources.
]

[bwinchg]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

If you're worried about silica from filling a bag with sand, I would suggest keeping your windows up when driving on gravel roads

Good point on that dust part, but less likely a concern with gravel. By coincidence, I learned today, road aggregrate also known as "road gravel" has no silica sand content - that depends on where one lives. A recent Alberta Transportation / Alberta Geological study in 2017 - road gravel mix mentioned :

https://www.transportation.alberta.c...ine_Silica.PDF

Sandy gravel content is 67% gravel, 33% percent sand and less than 1% of the fines ; not silica sand.

Well documented - silica sand in high concentrations , comparable to asbestos
Frac sand has respirable silica sand (also called "crystalline" silica) = fine particulate type, varies between 95% (standard) to 99%(premium) for concentration. The concentration part I am referring to, is the percentage of silica in a sand product. Sand is made in many forms, silica sand part varies from 1% to 99% purity.

One of the participant groups known as EGW opined that existing long term exposure limits used by various state regulated bodies for respirable crystalline sand in air were not likely sufficiently protective for the vulnerable population ; children, elderly and chronically ill. Most of us are old enough to know what asbestos is - crystalline / respirable silica is in the same classification as asbestos, a group 1 carcinogen.

Just some "food for thought" for those of us who have a varying comfort level with potential health risks. I noticed more than post suggesting "don't overthink this topic too much" I learned about the silica sand risk part by coincidence because zircon/chromite was hard to find. HW223 shared today "plenty o patches" is considering to sell the correct sand for benchrest bags.

Clearly mentioned already, I have resolved all my concerns with filling a shooting bag with sand - use a plastic liner inside a non leather sand bag. The filler I will be using - definitely won't be "frac" or "sand blasting" sand.

[bwinchg]

Originally Posted by West O'5

LFMAO......we are talking about filling a couple bags with a couple pounds of sand...ONCE.
Frac crews and truckers deal with Super-B loads and thousands of tonnes of silica sand daily,you could probably snort a shooting bag full of frac sand with no ill effects,lol
OK....so probably not wise to actually snort a kilo of silica sand,but you get the point....you are NOT going to get silicosis or be overexposed to silica dust filling a shooting bag or even a hundred shooting bags,get real.

Not an imaginary universe, I am getting "very real" about the risk with very high concentrations of respirable / crystalline sand - 95% to 99% concentrations :

https://www.cos-mag.com/personal-pro...bust-the-dust/

An industrial hygienist with Encana’s strategic environment, health and safety team in Calgary, Boot points out that when the sand is moved from the truck to storage containers and from storage to the well, the substance can throw up harmful crystalline silica, a basic component of soil, sand, granite and other minerals.

&

"One of the first lines of defence against any risk is substitution: use a product that is safer than the hazardous material. Man-made ceramics stand as one alternative to sand. But ceramics are expensive, so most companies prefer sand"

I am aware that we all work in different industries and receive different levels of training. Some of us get lots of training because their job requires it, some get only a handful of sessions - no further training offered and some get no training or consider the risk, because they are not in that industry. A combination of common sense and awareness with safe handling go well together when handling industrial grade products away from work.

[cjonesy80]

There is equipment that keeps the material dust from escaping while filling bags

https://www.palamaticprocess.com/en-...g/flowmatic-01

[Dmay]

I wonder how many unfortunate souls have died since Nov 7, 2018 filling shooting bags because they weren't aware of this.

[duceman]

Originally Posted by dmay

i wonder how many unfortunate souls have died since nov 7, 2018 filling shooting bags because they weren't aware of this.

🤣🤣🤣

[Ackleyman]

Reptile sand. 10lb bag at "Cornels World Incorporated" $12.99
Calgary

[DLab]

I took Speedy's advice.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...tip-by-speedy/

[aardvaark]

Originally Posted by Dmay

I wonder how many unfortunate souls have died since Nov 7, 2018 filling shooting bags because they weren't aware of this.

I did mine a couple years before that, so I guess I should be all right lol.

Seriously, I got a couple bags of dry beans at the grocery store, but it wasn’t quite enough, so I topped it off with dry rice. Works good for me, and the dust is edible!