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  #31  
Old 10-21-2017, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rcmc View Post
Yes they do pay but a subsidized rate compared to privately held grazing land.
Explain please.
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  #32  
Old 10-21-2017, 05:18 PM
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https://justice.alberta.ca/programs_...zing_land.aspx

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Trespass on Leased Grazing Land
DATE: May 20, 2008

SUBJECT: GUIDELINE GOVERNING THE PROSECUTION OF THOSE WHO ENTER UPON LEASED GRAZING LAND

BACKGROUND:

Crown prosecutors are sometimes required to consider whether to commence or continue a prosecution of an individual who is alleged to have entered Crown land that has been subject to an agricultural disposition pursuant to the Public Lands Act, RSA 2000, c. P-40 (e.g., a lease by the Crown for the purpose of allowing the lessee to graze livestock).The following principles govern the consideration and conduct of any such prosecution.

GUIDELINE:

There is authority for the proposition that, at common law, a lessee of Crown land may prohibit access to the leased land and may hold a trespasser civilly liable in tort.

Pursuant to ss. 1, 2, 2.1 and 3 of the Petty Trespass Act, RSA 2000, c. P-11, those who enter Crown land that is subject to a disposition pursuant to the Public Lands Act may be prosecuted for trespass under that Act.


However, pursuant to s. 1.1 of the Petty Trespass Act those who enter such lands for a recreational purpose, as detailed in the Recreational Access Regulation, AR 228/2004, are exempt from prosecution for trespass under the Act.
As such, any prosecution arising from a recreational user’s entry upon such lands may only be conducted pursuant to the Criminal Code of Canada. While the charging section(s) would depend upon the conduct alleged, the following sections are most commonly applicable.

Section 430(1)(c)
Section 430(1)(c) is engaged if it is alleged that the purported recreation user wilfully obstructed, interrupted or interfered with the lessee’s lawful use, enjoyment or operation of the Crown-leased land. As such, to support a prosecution under this subsection, there would have to be sufficient evidence that the person interfered with the lessee’s purpose in using the land (i.e., grazing livestock).

Sections 266, 267 or 268

Pursuant to s. 41(1), a lessee is entitled to use as much force as is necessary to evict a trespasser from the land. By virtue of s. 41(2), a trespasser who resists being removed may be prosecuted for assault or related conduct. Such resistance would not include passive resistance, but would include resistance by violence (e.g., by striking back).
  #33  
Old 10-21-2017, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ram crazy View Post
That's the problem with the younger generation. They all think that it is there god given right to have everything, and if I don't get it I'm going to pi$$ and moan until I get what I want. There are a lot of careless slobs out there that think they can do whatever they want.
So how does this even apply to the conversation? We are talking about public property and people potentially being denied entry. While following the legislated rules? So this somehow is a reflection of some entitled generation? What a straw man of an argument. Nice deflect. Let’s entertain it...
So this entitled generation should just shut up and appreciated the fact that someone has taken public domain and is treating it as private? What a joke. And as for the slob part sure there’s tons. And they’re turning our crown into a dump site. But that’s always been happening.
  #34  
Old 10-21-2017, 05:44 PM
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Do you as a recreational user pay to use the land?
Yes, we pay taxes. This is public land.
  #35  
Old 10-21-2017, 06:09 PM
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[QUOTE=MountainTi;3649062]Explain please.[/QUOTE

Most would agree the annual payment on public land is a good deal for the lease holder versus renting privately held grass land.
  #36  
Old 10-21-2017, 06:42 PM
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[QUOTE=rcmc;3649098]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
Explain please.[/QUOTE

Most would agree the annual payment on public land is a good deal for the lease holder versus renting privately held grass land.
What is the cost of upkeep/maintaince eg. water systems, dugouts, fencing, corral systems, ect..., taxes, annual aum payments, purchase price on lease land vs. renting privately held grass land? When you rent privately held pasture, are any of these costs incurred by the renter?
Just curious is all
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  #37  
Old 10-21-2017, 06:45 PM
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If ranchers don't like the rules surrounding grazing leases they should give them up. That will fix em.
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  #38  
Old 10-21-2017, 06:50 PM
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And lose all that juicy oil and gas surface revenue?
  #39  
Old 10-21-2017, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
And lose all that juicy oil and gas surface revenue?
If owning the lease on leased land is so lucrative......probably not that difficult to find you own. Sounds like a license to print money
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  #40  
Old 10-21-2017, 07:13 PM
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Oh it's a license to print money alright. That's why leases with significant oil lease revenue rarely come up for sale
  #41  
Old 10-21-2017, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
Oh it's a license to print money alright. That's why leases with significant oil lease revenue rarely come up for sale
I don't think you are that serious about finding your own. Not that hard to find.
Are you saying not all leases have oil revenues? Not an oil well on every quarter?
Do lease owners receive same compensation as deeded land owners for a well?
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  #42  
Old 10-21-2017, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
[
What is the cost of upkeep/maintaince eg. water systems, dugouts, fencing, corral systems, ect..., taxes, annual aum payments, purchase price on lease land vs. renting privately held grass land? When you rent privately held pasture, are any of these costs incurred by the renter?
Just curious is all
Forgot all about transfer fees

Maybe you can answer deer hunter?
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  #43  
Old 10-21-2017, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wbaj View Post
So on a recent antelope hunt down south I attempted to contact a few lease holders to obtain access permission. One particular lease holder controls massive amounts of leased grazing land, conservatively he has lease rites to over well over 20 square miles, maybe even more. Anyway I phoned him and he said he was not going to give out permission over the phone, but I was to come to the ranch door and he could then explain to me where his cattle were and what areas to avoid. I said thanks and I will see you Sunday morning.

However when I got there he told me that due to large hunter numbers he was cutting off permission to any further access!

My question is this, is this even legit!!! If so at what number does he use? 100? 10? 5, his brother-in-law only??

With over 20 square miles of space how can this be justified? In the entire time I was there I never saw a single hunter on his leased land. I did see a few cattle in a few spots but there was no way the entire leased lands were occupied by cattle.

Here is a guy who holds the lease to a very large trac of land, does not own a teaspoon of it and yet denies access to it because in his opinion hunter densities were too large.
Is this a bogus or legit reason???
Call the local settlement officer to have the issue sorted.

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  #44  
Old 10-21-2017, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bobalong View Post
You have been on this site for years and must know there are probably over 100 posts on this exact topic already........just do a search. I do agree with slicktricker this topic has to get the most whining each year, and there is probably more information on it than almost anything else.........just do a search.
.....and you've been around long enough to know many many many many many many topics are rehashed over and over and over and over and over again. Some people ask the same questions others have posed beforehand due to the likelihood there may have been changes to the policies/rules/regulations in regards to their question. I think blowing a guy off and telling them to use the search function is one of the most ignorant responses to a fellows post anyone can make, at least next to the proverbial beating a dead horse GIF.
  #45  
Old 10-21-2017, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy View Post
That's the problem with the younger generation. They all think that it is there god given right to have everything, and if I don't get it I'm going to pi$$ and moan until I get what I want. There are a lot of careless slobs out there that think they can do whatever they want.
This is a **** poor answer.

He wasn't asking for everything.

Just 1 lease.

And, he sounded far from careless.

OP, call the leasing office. They have always been helpful to me.
  #46  
Old 10-21-2017, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma View Post
Yes, we pay taxes. This is public land.
Lease holders pay to use the land, so maybe if you want the right to access lease land maybe you should pay the same amount the lease holder does to use the land. I garantee you would be surprised how much a lease holder pays to use the land that they have to originally have to buy the lease for, so what you pay tax on is nothing compared to what they pay. Go buy a lease and let us know what it costs you to enjoy your hunting rights or should I say privilege, but to the younger generation it is a god given right to hunt and access land.
  #47  
Old 10-21-2017, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram crazy View Post
Lease holders pay to use the land, so maybe if you want the right to access lease land maybe you should pay the same amount the lease holder does to use the land. I garantee you would be surprised how much a lease holder pays to use the land that they have to originally have to buy the lease for, so what you pay tax on is nothing compared to what they pay. Go buy a lease and let us know what it costs you to enjoy your hunting rights or should I say privilege, but to the younger generation it is a god given right to hunt and access land.
It is a given right to hunt the land! And it has nothing to do with this “younger” generation you have problems with! This is where your wires are crossed and obviously you are part of the problem. And if it wasn’t economical to ranch a lease the leaseholder would return the lease. Pure and simple it’s worth it, so I don’t by onto your argument one bit. And it’s really worth it if there’s wells on the lease. Cowboy welfare is what they call it.
  #48  
Old 10-22-2017, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Weedy1 View Post
.....and you've been around long enough to know many many many many many many topics are rehashed over and over and over and over and over again. Some people ask the same questions others have posed beforehand due to the likelihood there may have been changes to the policies/rules/regulations in regards to their question. I think blowing a guy off and telling them to use the search function is one of the most ignorant responses to a fellows post anyone can make, at least next to the proverbial beating a dead horse GIF.
It appears that ignorant responses are something you do know about. Any discussions about Lease Land always brings out your kind......carry on
  #49  
Old 10-22-2017, 01:21 AM
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I hate seeing these threads pop up....people need to be really careful what they wish for. One day if we see grazing leases disappear as many would wish, we will be left with a zoo of hunters on what was the grazing leases, and landowners shutting their doors on their deeded land to the hunters that fought them so hard on this issue. Are there issues with grazing leases? Yes. Could it be managed better? Depends who you ask. But I can guarantee you that if there was zero control on them and they fully reverted to crown control, then the saddle hills on Sept 17 would seem like a remote location with very little pressure compared to what you would see on the grazing leases. Anyone who thinks that having grazing leases operating as unrestricted crown land does will result in a hunting paradise is delusional, they would become overcrowded, overhunted dumping grounds like many easy to access crown land areas we have now. It's the unfortunate reality.

With all the time guys spend fighting with landowners and getting the settlement officer involved, I darn near guarantee they could find some private land to hunt. And I know that doesn't fix the problems and people will say we shouldnt roll over and let the so called "abuse" continue, but it's a reality. Pick your battles and trust me when I say that battling with landowners will help no one.
  #50  
Old 10-22-2017, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by bobalong View Post
You have been on this site for years and must know there are probably over 100 posts on this exact topic already........just do a search. I do agree with slicktricker this topic has to get the most whining each year, and there is probably more information on it than almost anything else.........just do a search.
Then don’t open it!!! If everyone was told there was already a thread on that and to search, there would be no new threads, almost everything has been asked on here. How many “ is a 243 good for elk” threads are there but all you guys keep answering it. It’s clear what the thread was about so don’t open it and if you open it then don’t waste everyone else’s time that have a decent response.
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:06 AM
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It is a given right to hunt the land! And it has nothing to do with this “younger” generation you have problems with! This is where your wires are crossed and obviously you are part of the problem. And if it wasn’t economical to ranch a lease the leaseholder would return the lease. Pure and simple it’s worth it, so I don’t by onto your argument one bit. And it’s really worth it if there’s wells on the lease. Cowboy welfare is what they call it.
It certainly is not a god given right at all. First off what does god have to do with anything. News flash here buddy, the world is full of bad people. And seems to get worse every day. If rancher pays to lease land, he should follow the rules of access. Just as hunters should also follow rules of access and we all know neither of both parties follow the rules all the time. Suck it up and move on, maybe build a relationship with the rancher in the off season so you can be one of the select few that get in. It certainly does have something to do with the younger generation and the sence of instant gratification. Wants to go hunting so he calls the day before. Its work to go out in June or July and meet the rancher, maybe help him fix a fence or two. Build a relationship so he knows who you are when you call. Its called being friendly and sometimes it takes some effort. Nothing in this world is free there is always something involved
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm View Post
Then don’t open it!!! If everyone was told there was already a thread on that and to search, there would be no new threads, almost everything has been asked on here. How many “ is a 243 good for elk” threads are there but all you guys keep answering it. It’s clear what the thread was about so don’t open it and if you open it then don’t waste everyone else’s time that have a decent response.
The fact is most people who post on Leases know exactly how they work, they just want to stir the pot. Maybe I am just old school where you actually do a little research yourself, especially when there is so much info. available on it. Also some people are not aware of the search function.
LOL and who is it that is wasting everyones time?
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:45 AM
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Default Direction was given!

Actually these threads have produced links on the process to use,in past threads links were not always given. Two were presented in post#12!

http://aep.alberta.ca/recreation-pub...litation.aspx#

http://aep.alberta.ca/about-us/conta...-contacts.aspx
  #54  
Old 10-22-2017, 10:08 AM
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The fact is most people who post on Leases know exactly how they work, they just want to stir the pot. Maybe I am just old school where you actually do a little research yourself, especially when there is so much info. available on it. Also some people are not aware of the search function.
LOL and who is it that is wasting everyones time?
The op is not wasting anyone’s time at all. Only the people who look just to complain are wasting their own time. Then they post and waste others time who are interested. If you think the op is stirring then carry on and the thread dies, post and your contributing which makes you the problem. If someone wants to pm him with a link of a previous thread that answers then great. If your precedent for a waste of time is previous threads on a topic then shut this place down cuz its all been said and done. You certainly don’t need to come here to research anything, the info can all be found elsewhere. People come here to ask likeminded people questions that others may have experience in previously. There is titles for a reason, if you don’t like the title then don’t open it just to be a dick. Like I said, the world is full of bad people and there’s lots on here.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm View Post
The op is not wasting anyone’s time at all. Only the people who look just to complain are wasting their own time. Then they post and waste others time who are interested. If you think the op is stirring then carry on and the thread dies, post and your contributing which makes you the problem. If someone wants to pm him with a link of a previous thread that answers then great. If your precedent for a waste of time is previous threads on a topic then shut this place down cuz its all been said and done. You certainly don’t need to come here to research anything, the info can all be found elsewhere. People come here to ask likeminded people questions that others may have experience in previously. There is titles for a reason, if you don’t like the title then don’t open it just to be a dick. Like I said, the world is full of bad people and there’s lots on here.
LOL, didn't mean the OP.
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Old 10-22-2017, 10:19 AM
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LOL, didn't mean the OP.
Not relevant to only the op, or only to you, there is several here on this thread it applies to
  #57  
Old 10-22-2017, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm View Post
It certainly is not a god given right at all. First off what does god have to do with anything. News flash here buddy, the world is full of bad people. And seems to get worse every day. If rancher pays to lease land, he should follow the rules of access. Just as hunters should also follow rules of access and we all know neither of both parties follow the rules all the time. Suck it up and move on, maybe build a relationship with the rancher in the off season so you can be one of the select few that get in. It certainly does have something to do with the younger generation and the sence of instant gratification. Wants to go hunting so he calls the day before. Its work to go out in June or July and meet the rancher, maybe help him fix a fence or two. Build a relationship so he knows who you are when you call. Its called being friendly and sometimes it takes some effort. Nothing in this world is free there is always something involved
Man you were pretty angry when you wrote this eh? LOL

Did you understand the context of any of my posts? For one I excluded GOD haha so you missed that. And it is a right to access lease land. It’s as I have previously said, a legislated allowance granted by the same government body that allows leases to begin with. So go be friends with the lease holders, that’s a great idea, not something anyone is arguing about. In fact that’s actually part of being a human being. So don’t go thinking you’re special because you visited some person in June. You don’t get a slow clap for being normal.

And this generational crap is nothing but a window into your ignorance. There has always been jerks, entitled and slobs. Right back to when mammoth was on the menu. But that don’t change the legislation that allows me access.
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Old 10-22-2017, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ESOXangler View Post
Man you were pretty angry when you wrote this eh? LOL

Did you understand the context of any of my posts? For one I excluded GOD haha so you missed that. And it is a right to access lease land. It’s as I have previously said, a legislated allowance granted by the same government body that allows leases to begin with. So go be friends with the lease holders, that’s a great idea, not something anyone is arguing about. In fact that’s actually part of being a human being. So don’t go thinking you’re special because you visited some person in June. You don’t get a slow clap for being normal.

And this generational crap is nothing but a window into your ignorance. There has always been jerks, entitled and slobs. Right back to when mammoth was on the menu. But that don’t change the legislation that allows me access.
Like I said, the world is full of bad people and you deserve access when your not one, what are you gunna do when your denied accesss, take away his birthday, you deserve nothing except what you earn and you removed “god” after I replyed so there goes your hahaha and being friends with someone you want something from is not being human, it’s being a decent human which you clearly do not know the difference, good luck with your entitled attitude and hope that works well for you when you tell a land leaser he has to let you on his leased land because its law. Your kind always fail in life as you think because its supposed to be your entitled to it, what are you gunna do spend countless hours reporting him to authorities so no one gets access, you go guy, ruin it for everyone so the lease holder hates us all, news flash coming, get ready it’s gunna hurt, THE WORLD ISNT FAIR. It’s folks like you that actually create my window of ignorance as you stated, which is not anything other than a learned behaviour from years of dealing with your kind. Dealing with your type at work is even harder than putting up with it on here. Hope you like crown land.

Last edited by Xbolt7mm; 10-22-2017 at 04:34 PM.
  #59  
Old 10-22-2017, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm View Post
Like I said, the world is full of bad people and you deserve access when your not one, what are you gunna do when your denied accesss, take away his birthday, you deserve nothing except what you earn and you removed “god” after I replyed so there goes your hahaha and being friends with someone you want something from is not being human, it’s being a decent human which you clearly do not know the difference, good luck with your entitled attitude and hope that works well for you when you tell a land leaser he has to let you on his leased land because its law. Your kind always fail in life as you think because its supposed to be your entitled to it, what are you gunna do spend countless hours reporting him to authorities so no one gets access, you go guy, ruin it for everyone so the lease holder hates us all, news flash coming, get ready it’s gunna hurt, THE WORLD ISNT FAIR. It’s folks like you that actually create my window of ignorance as you stated, which is not anything other than a learned behaviour from years of dealing with your kind. Dealing with your type at work is even harder than putting up with it on here. Hope you like crown land.
Well said, you see where the problem starts is people like the clowns that phone the lease holders and say "Hi I'm going on your lease land to hunt" instead of phoning and saying "Hi I'm phoning to ask for permission to hunt your lease land" do you see the difference. I lost count of how many clowns on this form have done the first phrase, now you see where the problem lies between hunter and lease holder. No wonder it's hard to gain access to lands for hunting, which by the way is a "PRIVILEGE" and not a right.
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm View Post
Like I said, the world is full of bad people and you deserve access when your not one, what are you gunna do when your denied accesss, take away his birthday, you deserve nothing except what you earn and you removed “god” after I replyed so there goes your hahaha and being friends with someone you want something from is not being human, it’s being a decent human which you clearly do not know the difference, good luck with your entitled attitude and hope that works well for you when you tell a land leaser he has to let you on his leased land because its law. Your kind always fail in life as you think because its supposed to be your entitled to it, what are you gunna do spend countless hours reporting him to authorities so no one gets access, you go guy, ruin it for everyone so the lease holder hates us all, news flash coming, get ready it’s gunna hurt, THE WORLD ISNT FAIR. It’s folks like you that actually create my window of ignorance as you stated, which is not anything other than a learned behaviour from years of dealing with your kind. Dealing with your type at work is even harder than putting up with it on here. Hope you like crown land.
My kind? Wtf are you even talking about? You don’t know me or even my age. But you’re still mad at me. And PM a mod and ask if I edited “God” out of my post. You are just plain talking crazy. And you’d do good to know a few people like me. I’m successful and it’s all self earned. And I’m sorry you work with terrible people. Is it a lot of them? Cause you know the saying right?

But this whole thread isn’t and hasn’t been about me so I don’t know why you’re even attacking me on a personal level.

For a third time:
There is government legislation that guarantees recreational access when following certain guidelines. This is my point. This is crown land that has been leased at a small cost to a rancher, so that they can pasture their herd while being stewards of the land. I can’t believe you could encourage and support the ability of people to deem crown land private and shut down access. This goes against everything we as outdoorsmen represent. There was a reason parks where created. To keep the privateers out and maintain wilderness. The same can be said about leases.
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