Bighorn country park

[marky_mark]

In case anyone was wondering

https://trib.al/Z891YbY

[JDK71]

great news

[Scott N]

I sure hope they roll back some of the changes the NDP made to the Castle region.

[nimrod]

Originally Posted by Scott N

I sure hope they roll back some of the changes the NDP made to the Castle region.

Yes lets hope, contact Jason Nixon to get this done

[Huk]

You'll have to forgive my vehement disagreement.

I hate the NDP probably more than most but that was good work they did in the Castle. It was Yahoo city in the summer and during hunting season. OHV nutbars chasing animals all over the place. I would even say there are too many trails that still allow OHV use.

Heaven forbid we have a few places where it takes a little bit of exercise to get into where you can actually interact with nature without hearing the whine of a dirt bike or have trails rutted up everywhere.

And let me point out, you go north across highway 3 and there is basically unlimited quad access in good country still available.

[Scott N]

Originally Posted by Huk

You'll have to forgive my vehement disagreement.

I hate the NDP probably more than most but that was good work they did in the Castle. It was Yahoo city in the summer and during hunting season. OHV nutbars chasing animals all over the place. I would even say there are too many trails that still allow OHV use.

Heaven forbid we have a few places where it takes a little bit of exercise to get into where you can actually interact with nature without hearing the whine of a dirt bike or have trails rutted up everywhere.

And let me point out, you go north across highway 3 and there is basically unlimited quad access in good country still available.

I think the bottom line for the problem in this area has always been enforcement, or more specifically, lack of. I've spent a lot of time in that area going back to the early 80s, and rarely, if ever, is law enforcement present. 99% of the time that I've seen enforcement in the area has been at Beaver Mines Lake, checking for fishing licenses.

[JDK71]

for me the lack of the rangers/law started in the west country Sundre and Caroline was the late 80s

[JDK71]

it use to keep all in line when the green ranger truck would pull in once or twice a weekend and walk around and check camp and plates

[bdub]

The sheep hunting or fishing or any hunting for that matter sure as hell won't get any better without reduced access, that's a given. I hope they leave the reduced access in the Castle alone and I was hoping they would have continued with reducing ATV access further in the 400s because I am a sheep hunter. Reduced access equals better hunting.

[Huk]

Originally Posted by bdub

The sheep hunting or fishing or any hunting for that matter sure as hell won't get any better without reduced access, that's a given. I hope they leave the reduced access in the Castle alone and I was hoping they would have continued with reducing ATV access further in the 400s because I am a sheep hunter. Reduced access equals better hunting.

I wouldn't even call it reduced access. You can still go in on horseback or on a mountain bike or just burn some boot leather. It's just reduced engines. Guys would be amazed at how much more game they'd see if they burned some calories instead of gasoline.

I should clarify it's fine to have areas (as we do) where you can ride your OHV to your heart's content. It's not too much to ask to have a few more zones where they aren't allowed.

[timsesink]

I hope it's not a complete dumping of the plan but rather an exstensive overhaul and re-implementation. As someone who uses that area extensively there is some need of further protections and enforcement.

[TheIceTitan]

Originally Posted by Huk

I wouldn't even call it reduced access. You can still go in on horseback or on a mountain bike or just burn some boot leather. It's just reduced engines. Guys would be amazed at how much more game they'd see if they burned some calories instead of gasoline.

I should clarify it's fine to have areas (as we do) where you can ride your OHV to your heart's content. It's not too much to ask to have a few more zones where they aren't allowed.

Agree 100%. The Bighorn proposal, particularly north of Abraham Lake, would prevent motorized access into areas that don't currently have any anyway, while not at all changing the hunting opportunities in these areas.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by Huk

You'll have to forgive my vehement disagreement.

I hate the NDP probably more than most but that was good work they did in the Castle. It was Yahoo city in the summer and during hunting season. OHV nutbars chasing animals all over the place. I would even say there are too many trails that still allow OHV use.

Heaven forbid we have a few places where it takes a little bit of exercise to get into where you can actually interact with nature without hearing the whine of a dirt bike or have trails rutted up everywhere.

And let me point out, you go north across highway 3 and there is basically unlimited quad access in good country still available.

That's funny I spend a lot of time in 400 and have hardly ever seen anybody back in there. As far as going north of highway 3 the trails have all been closed there as well. That was a bang up job that Phillips did, sure glad she's gone. There was still great hunting in 400 when the trails open.

[59whiskers]

I have hunted 400 lots over 40 years and never seen anybody chasing animals all over the place on OHV,s, ever.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

I have hunted 400 lots over 40 years and never seen anybody chasing animals all over the place on OHV,s, ever.

I don't think the issue is anyone chasing animals all over with ATV's. I don't think that is really an issue anywhere. The issue is ease of access equals poorer hunting. Harder access equals better hunting. It's a tradeoff.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by bdub

I don't think the issue is anyone chasing animals all over with ATV's. I don't think that is really an issue anywhere. The issue is ease of access equals poorer hunting. Harder access equals better hunting. It's a tradeoff.

How does it equal poorer hunting?
The same animals are there?
Maybe if there’s more unregulated harvesters I could see it
Otherwise I don’t see how it would change

[RZR]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

How does it equal poorer hunting?
The same animals are there?
Maybe if there’s more unregulated harvesters I could see it
Otherwise I don’t see how it would change

Nothing changes, it's just bdub's way of arguing to keep other user groups out of area's that he feels are only for his best interests even though he doesn't hunt this area.

[Huk]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

I have hunted 400 lots over 40 years and never seen anybody chasing animals all over the place on OHV,s, ever.

Let me clarify. When i say chasing I mean pushing and causing the animals to leave areas they would otherwise be or be far less active during the daylight hours.

The guys on OHVs would not have any idea they're pushing animals, they probably never see a single one!

But as a person who hunts using his legs I have busted my ass to get into places, sat down to glass, seen animals and watched them book at the sound of engines. It's a fact no matter how much you don't like it.

I intentionally steer clear of areas quads are allowed to go. The hunting is far better. Fact. In my humble opinion we could use more areas where OHVs are not allowed.

You've been hunting 400 for 40 years then you'll know the difference between the morning of September 16th and the morning of the 17th. Animals behave differently. Even with the trail closures it was a zoo in the easy to access places. The new regs are a MASSIVE improvement.

[Huk]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

How does it equal poorer hunting?
The same animals are there?
Maybe if there’s more unregulated harvesters I could see it
Otherwise I don’t see how it would change

If you don't think animals act differently or leave areas due to pressure you haven't spent enough time around them.

Assume you're in an area with animals. Picture 10 dudes walking around vs the noise of 10 quads. Do you really think in both cases animal behaviour is going to be identical?

[Husty]

Originally Posted by Huk

The guys on OHVs would not have any idea they're pushing animals, they probably never see a single one!

.

Whats your opinion on guys who use an OHV to get far back in the bush then hike around for game? I like to do that, but no way am I packing an elk out 20km to the nearest road on foot.. its not fun. I did that when I shot my bull elk 12km to the nearest road, it was a long, miserable night, with the old man helping me. What are your thoughts on the 'lazy' guys who use horses to get into the bush, now that its one of the only viable ways to get far back into these parks to haul out game? Do you think its fair they can use a horse to pack in and out game but guys who use OHV's are out of luck?

I know a guy that uses a helicopter for remote hunts in the states, now thats unfair

To me its about fair access to Crown-land.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by RZR

Nothing changes, it's just bdub's way of arguing to keep other user groups out of area's that he feels are only for his best interests even though he doesn't hunt this area.

Your right nothing changes RZR. Your flapping off about something you don't know anything about again. I've hunted that country a ton in the past and plan on hunting it again in the future. I imagine the most you know about that country is what you can discover from the seat of you ATV RZR.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

How does it equal poorer hunting?
The same animals are there?
Maybe if there’s more unregulated harvesters I could see it
Otherwise I don’t see how it would change

There are plenty of studies that explain games reaction to roads and vehicle access, increased hunting pressure, disturbance from helicopters, etc, etc. It affects how game uses the landscape. It also has different effects depending on the species of game. Instead of saying "I don't see how it would change", why don't you do a little research on your own Mark and come up with an educated opinion.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Huk

If you don't think animals act differently or leave areas due to pressure you haven't spent enough time around them.

Assume you're in an area with animals. Picture 10 dudes walking around vs the noise of 10 quads. Do you really think in both cases animal behaviour is going to be identical?

I’ve driven up to more animals on my quad than I’ve walked up to

Spent more than my fair share of time in the bush

That’s why I’m asking

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by bdub

There are plenty of studies that explain games reaction to roads and vehicle access, increased hunting pressure, disturbance from helicopters, etc, etc. It affects how game uses the landscape. It also has different effects depending on the species of game. Instead of saying "I don't see how it would change", why don't you do a little research on your own Mark and come up with an educated opinion.

Well up until the ndp came into power this was the way that it was.
I’m sure the harvest numbers haven’t gone up since castle was pushed through or since the changes to the bighorn started
Show me these studies
How come there’s tons of animals on active military bases
I’m sure the helicopters tanks and live rockets are quiet
Nice try

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Husty

Whats your opinion on guys who use an OHV to get far back in the bush then hike around for game? I like to do that, but no way am I packing an elk out 20km to the nearest road on foot.. its not fun. I did that when I shot my bull elk 12km to the nearest road, it was a long, miserable night, with the old man helping me. What are your thoughts on the 'lazy' guys who use horses to get into the bush, now that its one of the only viable ways to get far back into these parks to haul out game? Do you think its fair they can use a horse to pack in and out game but guys who use OHV's are out of luck?

I know a guy that uses a helicopter for remote hunts in the states, now thats unfair

To me its about fair access to Crown-land.

Exactly

You hit the nail on the head here

[marky_mark]

If you want to go for a hike go to wilmore

[bdub]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

I’ve driven up to more animals on my quad than I’ve walked up to

Spent more than my fair share of time in the bush

That’s why I’m asking

You've drove up to more animals on your quad than you have on foot haha. I wouldn't be bragging that up to much Mark.

The info/research out there. Some animals can handle less disturbance. Goats for one. Some it hardly bothers, like whitetail. You don't think motorized access changes how animals use the landscape, how it affects where they feed, where they give birth, what country do they dig into when hunted? It doesn't affect harvest levels, illegal harvest? Of course it does. Isn't that just common sense never mind looking at the research?

I hope they further reduce/restrict access/manage access because it makes for better hunting. Some guys like you and RZR like riding around more than great hunting, so you want less restrictive access. Different points of view.

[roper1]

I hunted Castle when the OHV's were abundant. What a zoo. The damage to the countryside is indefensible!

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by bdub

There are plenty of studies that explain games reaction to roads and vehicle access, increased hunting pressure, disturbance from helicopters, etc, etc. It affects how game uses the landscape. It also has different effects depending on the species of game. Instead of saying "I don't see how it would change", why don't you do a little research on your own Mark and come up with an educated opinion.

Well if your using a helicopter, that's not a atv and of course the use of helicopters affects game. I've sat on hill sides and watched ATV's ride right by Elk and the Elk don't act any differently than before the atv rode by them.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Well if your using a helicopter, that's not a atv and of course the use of helicopters affects game. I've sat on hill sides and watched ATV's ride right by Elk and the Elk don't act any differently than before the atv rode by them.

And what's your point. You watched an ATV ride by a herd of elk. Yeah ok and we are to infer that's supposed to give us some deep insight into the effects of ATV access somehow. Your observation means nothing.