Gun rests?

[elkhunter11]

.experiment done and no impact change for my gun.

For your gun,there apparently is no change of impact,for other guns,the point of impact can,and does change.In fact,adding a bipod can change the point of impact for some guns,sometimes,significantly.As long as a person has tests his guns to see if the point of impact does change,you are good to go.

[twofifty]

I have found that point of impact (POI) changes to some extent with practically any change in how the gun is held, or shouldered, or supported, or slung. Most changes in technique affect the direction of the recoil force, i.e. the gunstock can kick to the left or right, or jump up to a greater or lesser extent.

For example, if I change where the forestock rests on the front bag, the POI changes a tiny bit. If I do not ensure perfect linearity between the rear bag's axis (the space between the ears) and the stock, the POI changes to a much greater extent. All this at 100yd, even more so at 200yds, and so on.

Consistent technique is the key to consistent results.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

He actually shoots his 375 that way sometimes as well IF he is zeroing the rifle.
And yes, POI can shift considerably depending on the type of rifle, what we use the bench rests for is to shoot for accuracy and load development - hunting positions are then used to practise with .
Cat

Sorry, I didn't mean to insult you or your friend in the pic.
My point was more that the fella asking the question has mentioned that he's a little gun shy.
i would guess that he probably won't be adopting your friends good shooting style as shown in the pic.
I think the lead sled may be worth trying.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Of course it matters,the difference can easily be a couple of inches at 100 yards or more than 6" at 300 yards.You need to zero the gun so that the point of impact is correct when shooting the gun without a lead sled,unless of course you carry a lead sled along when you are hunting.

TO adopt your theory then, I think I'll go out, lean on a tree and shoot at a beer can 100 yards. If i hit it I'm good to go, cause that's more the senario for your POI in the field thinking

[twofifty]

Cochranenite is somewhat gun shy because he was scoped in the eye. Totally understandable.

I would suggest that you get yourself a nice full-sized bolt-action .22LR, mount a scope on it that is as near identical as possible as what's on your .270 Tikka, and go shoot 1000 deliberate rounds of .22LR each month.

Your marksmanship WILL improve, and you will gradually replace your doubts with positive thoughts. Look into the silhouette smallbore rifle shooting, via the Alberta Metallic Silhouette Assn. Catinthehat can most likely steer you in their direction.

[elkhunter11]

TO adopt your theory then, I think I'll go out, lean on a tree and shoot at a beer can 100 yards. If i hit it I'm good to go, cause that's more the senario for your POI in the field thinking

Hopefully you aren't going to use a beer can as a target,because you just drank the beer.

As for myself,most of my field shots are off of a knee,off of a backpack,or off of a bipod.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Hopefully you aren't going to use a beer can as a target,because you just drank the beer.

As for myself,most of my field shots are off of a knee,off of a backpack,or off of a bipod.

Do you site in your rifle using these shooting methods?
I'm going to guess you site your rifle on a bench.

[elkhunter11]

Do you site in your rifle using these shooting methods?
I'm going to guess you site your rifle on a bench.

I sight in on a bench using sandbags,then I shoot from field positions to see if the point of impact is the same.The group size will be larger than off of a bench,but the point of impact is usually the same.I have seen the point of impact change when using lead sled type devices,or gun vices.I also test the zero with both a clean bore,and a fouled bore,because some guns require a fouling shot or two for the point of impact to stabilize.If that is the case,I fire a fouling shot before going hunting,and don't clean my gun,until after my hunting trip is over.I do my final sight in,just before the hunting season in temperatures that are close to what I will be hunting in.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I sight in on a bench using sandbags,then I shoot from field positions to see if the point of impact is the same.The group size will be larger than off of a bench,but the point of impact is usually the same.I have seen the point of impact change when using lead sled type devices,or gun vices.I also test the zero with both a clean bore,and a fouled bore,because some guns require a fouling shot or two for the point of impact to stabilize.If that is the case,I fire a fouling shot before going hunting,and don't clean my gun,until after my hunting trip is over.I do my final sight in,just before the hunting season in temperatures that are close to what I will be hunting in.

POI changes for you and your gun using a lead sled. But your own words of wisdom are that all guns are different and I guess shooting skill etc. would be different as well.
I may be wrong, as I'm sure you'll point out, but my thoughts are that if he wants to see exactly where his gun will put a bullet, and if he wants to work some loads and take the human element out, then something like the lead sled is going to be to his advantage.

[elkhunter11]

if he wants to work some loads and take the human element out, then something like the lead sled is going to be to his advantage.

For working up loads,a device such as a lead sled can certainly be an advantage for some people,I just wouldn't use one to do a final sight in,unless I verified the point of impact using other methods.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Sorry, I didn't mean to insult you or your friend in the pic.
My point was more that the fella asking the question has mentioned that he's a little gun shy.
i would guess that he probably won't be adopting your friends good shooting style as shown in the pic.
I think the lead sled may be worth trying.

I didn't think you did. However, the rifle he is shooting is a .308 in a fairly light stock.
Even with my shoulder damage I can shoot a 308 like that as long as my body is in a fairly upright position, and not hunched over.
Cat

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

For working up loads,a device such as a lead sled can certainly be an advantage for some people,I just wouldn't use one to do a final sight in,unless I verified the point of impact using other methods.

that right there is a powerful statement ...as was one you made before about shooting from field positions. i know a couple of guys who can print tight little groups from a bench, but cant hit water from off a boat in the field. if you want to be a better shooter on game, practice needs to be in the form of conditions you will see when hunting. kneeling, prone, and offhand in particular. i have yet to see a bench on a mountain or down in a thickly treed river valley where i do my hunting. for running shots, the only thing i have come up with to simulate that is rolling tires down hills.

[CR5]

-Keep shooting and shooting and shooting.
-Make an effort to keep your eye open through the shot trying to watch the impact on target through the scope (I know, not really possible but it's the concept of following through till the bullet clears the barrel).

You have to train yourself not to flinch and it's going to take alot of rounds to do it. Your mind needs to learn that your not going to get scoped every time you pull the trigger.
I know you probably don't want to hear this one since it sounds like a very nice gun but consider getting rid of the lightweight rifle and get something heavier, there will be less recoil and it will be easier to train yourself not to flinch if the gun is more comfortable to shoot.

You can buy all the rests and gizmo's you want to help you at the range but they won't help you in the field. Your idea of using a rest or bags to get the rifle zero'd is correct though, then you can adjust yourself to get the most out of your rifle.

Good luck.

[jacobin]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Especially high recoiling rifles with wooden stocks.I myself know of two stocks that cracked when used with lead sled type devices.

Was wondering if anybody has used or knows anything further about them. I was wondering if this set up would take away from the possibility of a broken stock on the lead sled rests. The write up talks about a compression dampening system that doesn't need any weight. Anybody know more about this type of set up?

https://www.cabelas.ca/index.cfm?pag...3=1482&ID=9901

It's very heavy rests like the Lead Sled that seem to cause the greatest problems. Last time I was up at Corlanes they showed me a synthetic stock that was yet another victim of the Lead Sled. Lighter weight rests don't seem to have any issues. I've used a Bench Master for years without issue.

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

get a lead sled, fill some sand bags wth tire wieghts , the best rest for sighting in for yer money,I have a hyskore dangerous game rest as well but never ever use it.as you need a strong firmly planted table to use it wth.
Hyskore® Dangerous Game™ Machine Rest

The Dangerous Game™ Machine Rest uses Nitrogen filled compression dampers to absorb the recoil. If the rest is firmly anchored to a solid bench, the gun will return to battery (+/- 3 MOA) after every shot. Since the compression damper absorbs the recoil, in a manner similar to your shoulder, there is no need to worry about damage to stock, bedding or recoil lugs. This is in sharp contrast to other products that require extensive realignment after each shot and offer more resistance that is manageable for the structure of the gun. Each Dangerous Game Machine Rest is equipped with one light, one medium and one heavy, factory calibrated, compression damper. There is no equal for sighting in or load testing. By using the remote trigger release any human induced motion contamination is eliminated

[lclund1946]

I have a slightly used Rock BR 1000 that I can't use anymore due to health reasons. I have the bag for the wide forearm and one for narrower hunting style stocks. If you are interested I would sell it for $175.00 FOB Edmonton. I would have a Custom Protector rear bag for sale as well but someone lifted it at the Spruce Grove Gun Range.

http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.co...roduct=Rock-BR

[ishootbambi]

i thought about this some more. my gun has a limbsaver pad that absorbs a lot of recoil. the sled has a thick pad where the gun rests....again absorbing recoil. but what i never mentioned was that i have no lead in the sled. i dont put any weight in it. i bought it more for the one piece steadiness that you cant get from 2 individual rests. maybe thats why my gun hits the same. i still see how a vice could cause impact change, but with what im doing i cant see how it could happen.....and maybe thats why....the gun is moving probably as much as it does against my shoulder.