Question for Sako owners

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

I agree with Elkhunter. Was helping a friend shoot in his Finnlight 300 WSM using my lead sled earlier this fall. I also shot my Sako 85 SS 338 WM that day. There was a significant difference in the muzzle jump between the two. With my first shot using the Finnlight the rifle practically jumped up and out of the sled. I was expecting recoil similar to my 85 and got surprised. Considerably more jump and felt recoil with Finnlight. The 338 WM was loaded with 210 gr bullets and the 300 WSM loaded with 165gr.

Well if I can't put 5 shots inside an inch it's going back to the factory. I think muzzle buck is greatly magnified when using a lead sled. I do my bench shooting off a cheap cabelas matrix and absorb the recoil with my shoulder. Fortunately I do most of my load development and sighting in during the winter when barrels cool faster and cloths run thicker.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Well if I can't put 5 shots inside an inch it's going back to the factory. I think muzzle buck is greatly magnified when using a lead sled. I do my bench shooting off a cheap cabelas matrix and absorb the recoil with my shoulder. Fortunately I do most of my load development and sighting in during the winter when barrels cool faster and cloths run thicker.

Do a Google search on that topic if you have some time.

Mine (although different calibre) likes all things BT and is especially fond of the Hornady BTSP Interlock. I have read that many have had similar results.

I picked up a couple of boxes of Sierra Game Kings BTSP and although the POI was a couple inches higher than the Hornady, two were in the same hole and the other within 1 3/4 inch. I knew the one shot wasn't a perfect squeeze.

[elkhunter11]

Well if I can't put 5 shots inside an inch it's going back to the factory.

They don't guarantee that you can put five shots inside an inch, they guarantee that the rifle can, with the load that they choose to test it with. The load that they choose, might not be a load that you choose to hunt with.

Fortunately I do most of my load development and sighting in during the winter when barrels cool faster and cloths run thicker.

I rarely do load development during the winter, because a load that is perfectly safe in the cold, might be dangerous in the rifle when the temperature warms up. I typically develop loads at +10-20 degrees, then test them at +25 or so, and then test again in the colder fall weather, to see if the load is still accurate, when the temperature drops. As well, it's a lot more difficult to shoot precisely in the cold.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

They don't guarantee that you can put five shots inside an inch, they guarantee that the rifle can, with the load that they choose to test it with. The load that they choose, might not be a load that you choose to hunt with.



I rarely do load development during the winter, because a load that is perfectly safe in the cold, might be dangerous in the rifle when the temperature warms up. I typically develop loads at +10-20 degrees, then test them at +25 or so, and then test again in the colder fall weather, to see if the load is still accurate, when the temperature drops. As well, it's a lot more difficult to shoot precisely in the cold.

I do my load development right around -10C, and work it up until it's accurate.

I have no doubt that I'll put 3 shots inside an inch if not 5 with this rifle and a little work with some 7828 or 4831. With a bit more work I hope to make 1 hole with 3 shots at 100. Best case scinario I can do it right off the bat.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I do my load development right around -10C, and work it up until it's accurate.

I have no doubt that I'll put 3 shots inside an inch if not 5 with this rifle and a little work with some 7828 or 4831. With a bit more work I hope to make 1 hole with 3 shots at 100. Best case scinario I can do it right off the bat.

I use a lot of imr 7828, and if I work up a maximum load at -10, I can pretty much guarantee, that if I use that same load at +20, there will be significant pressure signs. My chronograph testing from -10 to +30 showed a change of 2-3 fps per degree C with imr7828.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I use a lot of imr 7828, and if I work up a maximum load at -10, I can pretty much guarantee, that if I use that same load at +20, there will be significant pressure signs. My chronograph testing from -10 to +30 showed a change of 2-3 fps per degree C with imr7828.

I only rifle hunt November so I'm not too worried about shooting in +20, that's why I develop my load for an average temp of -10C, most of the time my most accurate loads end up 1-3 grains under max so in most cases I think they're safe year round.

PS, is it snowing up there? Cause we're getting hammered here right now!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I only rifle hunt November so I'm not too worried about shooting in +20, that's why I develop my load for an average temp of -10C, most of the time my most accurate loads end up 1-3 grains under max so in most cases I think they're safe year round.

PS, is it snowing up there? Cause we're getting hammered here right now!

I might be hunting elk or bighorn at +25 or deer or elk at -30, so I make sure that the load is safe for all. In rare cases where I received a rifle in November, I did make up a load just to get through the season, but I loaded very few rounds, and actually had to reduce the load by 2 grains the following spring.

As for snow, a light dusting, but nothing like South of here.

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Well if I can't put 5 shots inside an inch it's going back to the factory. I think muzzle buck is greatly magnified when using a lead sled. I do my bench shooting off a cheap cabelas matrix and absorb the recoil with my shoulder. Fortunately I do most of my load development and sighting in during the winter when barrels cool faster and cloths run thicker.

My post had nothing to do with accuracy. Any good rifle in the hands of a good shooter can put 5 shot groups into an inch all day long. If you didn't get it, my point was in regard to muzzle jump only, comparing the Finnlight in 300 WSM to a Sako 85 SS in a 338 WM. The use of the lead sled is significant, as one more variable was controlled, along with same bench, same environmental conditions, same shooter, in making the comparison. You asked for some feedback and I simply provided you with what I had experienced.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

My post had nothing to do with accuracy. Any good rifle in the hands of a good shooter can put 5 shot groups into an inch all day long. If you didn't get it, my point was in regard to muzzle jump only, comparing the Finnlight in 300 WSM to a Sako 85 SS in a 338 WM. The use of the lead sled is significant, as one more variable was controlled, along with same bench, same environmental conditions, same shooter, in making the comparison. You asked for some feedback and I simply provided you with what I had experienced.

My post wasn't a dis to you or your shooting, or to beat my chest. I do appreciate your input. It was aimed pointing out that I think muzzle buck is amplified with the use of a recoil absorbing type bench rest. To be quite honest this is my first Sako, and first rifle under 7lbs. Muzzle buck has never been an issue with me, whether it's happened with the rifles I've owned or not, it's never been something I've noticed yet. I hope I won't develop any issues with the Finnlight because of it.

[elkhunter11]

The use of the lead sled is significant,

After witnessing two stocks being damaged as a result of using a leadsled, I for one, will not use them. Rifles are not built to be prevented from recoiling , and if you pile on the weight, to greatly reduce the recoil, extra stress is placed on the bedding, and stock, and stock damage can result.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

After witnessing two stocks being damaged as a result of using a leadsled, I for one, will not use them. Rifles are not built to be prevented from recoiling , and if you pile on the weight, to greatly reduce the recoil, extra stress is placed on the bedding, and stock, and stock damage can result.

I have a more expensive steady point rest I only use for cleaning and gunsmithing for this very reason.

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

After witnessing two stocks being damaged as a result of using a leadsled, I for one, will not use them. Rifles are not built to be prevented from recoiling , and if you pile on the weight, to greatly reduce the recoil, extra stress is placed on the bedding, and stock, and stock damage can result.

I do not disagree with your argument. When I use a sled I do not attempt to prevent the rifle from recoiling. I do think a sled can be used effectively to consistently maintain uniform stability shot after shot for the purpose of load development. I never attempt to anchor the sled down with lots of weight. I use an empty sled, no additional weight, and get in behind it with my shoulder to absorb some but not all of the recoil. The sled is like any other tool and needs to be used with some degree of common sense.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

I do not disagree with your argument. When I use a sled I do not attempt to prevent the rifle from recoiling. I do think a sled can be used effectively to consistently maintain uniform stability shot after shot for the purpose of load development. I never attempt to anchor the sled down with lots of weight. I use an empty sled, no additional weight, and get in behind it with my shoulder to absorb some but not all of the recoil. The sled is like any other tool and needs to be used with some degree of common sense.

Unfortunately, when the manufacturers advertising for the product is centered around eliminating as much recoil as possible, in this case up to 95%, that is what many people that purchase the product, are going to attempt to accomplish.

From the Leadsled advertising.

The Original Lead Sled revolutionized the shooting rest market by nearly eliminating felt recoil from even the heaviest magnum rifles. The Lead Sled Plus is the next-generation of Lead Sled. Like the Original, the Plus reduces recoil by up to 95%

[Ranger CS]

Curious Elkhunter, what make of rifle and or stock and in what caliber did you see get damaged? Were they using lots of weight on their sled?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

Curious Elkhunter, what make of rifle and or stock and in what caliber did you see get damaged? Were they using lots of weight on their sled?

One was a 338win mag, the second was either a 300winmag, or a 338winmag. As to brands, the 338winmag was a Ruger , the other one, I don't recall, as it happened many years ago.Yes they were using considerable weight, as most people that I see using Lead sleds seem to do.

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I have a more expensive steady point rest I only use for cleaning and gunsmithing for this very reason.

These things are handy for more than shooting. I like to use mine for bore sighting as well.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

These things are handy for more than shooting. I like to use mine for bore sighting as well.

I have a target on my basement wall with a dot 1-1/2" above I use with the steady point for bore sighting as well.

[Kurt505]

Verdict is in;

I love it, as a hunting rifle anyway. After a 45min stalk I was able to make a 400yd freehand shot, put the bullet exactly where I was aiming.

The barnes factory bullets grouped right at 1", I hope I get better results with hand loads.