Jasper National Park hunting agreement

[I’d rather be outdoors]

I’d support opening up a FN hunt for grizz province wide.

[Ram94]

Originally Posted by I’d rather be outdoors

I’d support opening up a FN hunt for grizz province wide.

Is it not already open to FN?

[Mountain Guy]

Plus, last go round I clearly recall ( wish I had an excerpt of the article ) that the Simpcw leader stated that this was a one time deal for them, and he felt that they should let others , I guess meaning other bands and such , to have their opportunity..
Whats the deal now???? They get round 2...

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Plus, last go round I clearly recall ( wish I had an excerpt of the article ) that the Simpcw leader stated that this was a one time deal for them, and he felt that they should let others , I guess meaning other bands and such , to have their opportunity..
Whats the deal now???? They get round 2...

They probably got more than they planned on selling trophy antlers and horns, so they want another round.

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by averagejoe

Sustenance hunts should have to cut up horns/antlers to ruin any trophy value. It is an animal taken for sustenance purposes after all.

100%. This would give the public a pretty good idea if this was in fact a sustenance hunt based on FN response and participation in the hunt after that stipulation was imposed?

I still don’t see the reasoning why they can’t use bows instead of modern firearms to hunt mostly tame animals in a national park?
Especially with the amount of people that use the park?

[Dewey Cox]

Sounds like they got to shoot some nice animals.
What a great opportunity.
I'm happy for them.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by Ronji

I was very vocal to Parks Canada the last time this occurred.

At the time the representative said to me that it was a traditional hunt, and not a trophy hunt (which is what occurred)

I was told that traditional hunt meant not using quads, rifles etc.

When I spoke to parks Canada after the hunt about the non traditional methods of hunting that were used, and about the bragging about the trophies that occurred, I was basically told by Parks Canada to go pound sand and mind my own business.

IIRC they closed down a couple roads for them and kept the public out, a detail that I particularly liked. Footage of them blazing away across the hoods of their trucks at half domesticated animals would likely have undermined the official narrative. To me it was basically an admission that for all their BS, whoever authorized this fully understood what was actually going to happen.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

Sounds like they got to shoot some nice animals.
What a great opportunity.
I'm happy for them.

Would be nice if we all had equal opportunities though, the pendulum has swung from full right to full left, typical

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 7magtime

100%. This would give the public a pretty good idea if this was in fact a sustenance hunt based on FN response and participation in the hunt after that stipulation was imposed?

I still don’t see the reasoning why they can’t use bows instead of modern firearms to hunt mostly tame animals in a national park?
Especially with the amount of people that use the park?

It's pretty obvious, this was never about a sustenance hunt, it was about using native hunting rights as an excuse to get the government to allow an easy trophy hunt for some individuals. The brag pictures that were posted online confirm that this was the case, and who knows what happened to those trophies, they could have been sold to collectors for personal gain, and we would never know.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It's pretty obvious, this was never about a sustenance hunt, it was about using native hunting rights as an excuse to get the government to allow an easy trophy hunt for some individuals. The brag pictures that were posted online confirm that this was the case, and who knows what happened to those trophies, they could have been sold to collectors for personal gain, and we would never know.

Have not heard anything about trophies being sold and know at least a portion were brought to a taxidermist for the FN hunters who shot them. The taxidermist was under the impression they were being hung in the hunters home not sold

As I stated I don’t support or agree with this hunt but let’s not start rumors without evidence

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Have not heard anything about trophies being sold and know at least a portion were brought to a taxidermist for the FN hunters who shot them. The taxidermist was under the impression they were being hung in the hunters home not sold

As I stated I don’t support or agree with this hunt but let’s not start rumors without evidence

The fact that they were brought to a taxidermist proves that they are seen as trophies, by the people that killed them. As to what happened to the mounts, how would the taxidermist know where they ended up?

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The fact that they were brought to a taxidermist proves that they are seen as trophies, by the people that killed them. As to what happened to the mounts, how would the taxidermist know where they ended up?

%100 they were viewed as trophies or at least momentous of the hunt and really I have no issue on how theses hunters view or choose to honor their animals/hunt. I don’t agree with the hunt or the grounds It was a “traditional hunt” but I have no issues with the hunters themselves

I won’t post everything on this forum but can say I am pretty confident at least theses ones were not sold

When you try to paint things worse than they are on nothing but speculation it takes away from the credibility of your opposition.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Fifty years from now, there will be nothing left and people will wonder, why ?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...rial-1.6996733

Grizz

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

%100 they were viewed as trophies or at least momentous of the hunt and really I have no issue on how theses hunters view or choose to honor their animals/hunt. I don’t agree with the hunt or the grounds It was a “traditional hunt” but I have no issues with the hunters themselves

I won’t post everything on this forum but can say I am pretty confident at least theses ones were not sold

When you try to paint things worse than they are on nothing but speculation it takes away from the credibility of your opposition.

The point being that this event, which seems a more appropriate term in this situation than calling it a hunt, has become an opportunity to obtain trophies and brag about them online, under the guise of native hunting rights. And it also brings the opportunity, whether it's taken advantage of or not, to use these trophies for personal gain, be it through sales, endorsments or handouts from manufacturers, or to get someones name in the record books. If the trophies were altered to make them unscorable, and they were never officially scored by any recognized organization, this would be a bit easier to accept as anything but a trophy hunt, but those people that had them mounted would never agree to that, because it would financially devalue them.

[Mountain Guy]

Selling heads or putting them on their walls... both are for personal gain. I know one is illegal but whatever , lots of hunters do illegal things.
I just don't get ( well I do get it actually ) why nobody within the Fed system can grow a set and actually impose some rules that they have to follow to ensure the integrity of the whole purpose of what the Simpcw's are calling a traditional hunt.
My guess round 2 will play out just like round 1.
Only diff now is there is another group to join in. The Stoney's of AB.
Wonder how many groups for round 3? Then the next rounds after that?

[Mountain Guy]

https://www.fitzhugh.ca/simpcw-chief...national-park/

This was after the hunt.. So I guess 6 years is considered long enough before they come back. And what about letting others have their turn?

[Big Grey Wolf]

Simple Solution, do what Alaska does with native hunt, you must cut out chunk of antler. Thus younger better eating animals would then be harvested and breeding stock would be preserved.

[edmsmith]

Theres a lot or crying for grown men happening. A bit sad to see someone promoting violence like out east.

I'm not a fan of the closure or the hunt but they took 15 to 20 animals last time they did it. Hardly something to get that worked up about.

[58thecat]

Just this week, which one to put a tag on?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cowboyhunter]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

i vehemently oppose any FN hunting in the parks.

this madness needs to end. maybe we need to be like the lobster fisherman in NS

100% agree .

[dave99]

I agree with you insofar as the silliness of those comments that suggest violence similar to the East coast lobster fishery issue. It reflects poorly on those members who suggest or likened this JNP hunt with the problem out East- we should never condone this and it deserves being called out.

To correct you, the B.C. First Nation took 3 elk, 2 bighorn, and 1 whitetail in the 2017 hunt. So a total of 6 animals. This may seem insignificant and certainly doesn’t present an issue for sustainably managing animal herds in JNP, but you are completely missing some bigger problems:

- Parks Canada opening the door to firearm use in the park
- Closure of areas of the park that limit public use
- FN statements of intent to continue to harvest within parks and to THEMSELVES REGULATE the number and species of allowable harvest (as quoted by Stoney spokesperson Wesley in this press release https://www.cbc.ca/lite/story/1.6999777#
- The failure or intentional misrepresentation of the the full intent of the hunt as a traditional hunt rather than as a combination of ceremonial/subsistence and trophy (at best) or simply a trophy (at worst) hunt. This is CLEARLY and unequivocally evidenced by pictures that I myself have seen following the 2017 hunt. Parks Canada and the FN that participated in 2017 are equally culpable.


There is plenty here to be concerned about…

Originally Posted by edmsmith

Theres a lot or crying for grown men happening. A bit sad to see someone promoting violence like out east.

I'm not a fan of the closure or the hunt but they took 15 to 20 animals last time they did it. Hardly something to get that worked up about.

[DirtShooter]

If its sustenance then shoot a few cow elk for the meat, afterall you can't eat horns. (But you sure can sell them)

[Howard Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Just this week, which one to put a tag on?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

>>
Slow clap 58, slow clap. Nail, meet head of hammer.

[GMX]

Simple solution make them cut one horn in half at the kill site like up north. Sustenance hunting isn’t collecting racks.

[fishnguy]

The way I figure, if the hunt is allowed, then it makes no difference what animals they harvest. Showing “trophies” of pet-like animals is lame and “in-your-face” type of thing in this case though, and one clearly hasn’t thought it through.

The article cited above states the following:

However, Chief Matthew says despite using modern tools, community hunts are opportunities to educate the community’s youth on traditional Simpcw ways of life.

“We had a couple of youths, who have now killed a couple of animals. It’s very positive,” says Chief Matthew.

Frankly, I see no difference what weapon is used either because I do not believe that “traditional way of life” has any relationship to the tools used whatsoever. Same as a farmer using a most modern combine and other machinery and tools still carrying the tradition of generations past. Introduction of firearms to the National Parks is an obvious concern though.

However, while a “couple of youth, who have now killed a couple of animals” is, in fact, a positive thing, I do not see why these same (and other) youth couldn’t have killed a couple of animals elsewhere, instead of establishing a new tradition of hunting nationals parks. Not only it shouldn’t be acceptable, why not show and teach the youth actual skill and challenge them to use that skill in real life setting? Especially because indigenous people can practice and educate on their tradition anywhere else on public land in the province/country at the time of their convenience. I can imagine the lesson the “couple of youth” have learned, and so will others.

“A community (or traditional) hunt is planned by band members, it’s not just one or two people deciding to go for a hunt on a random day. It’s organized and coordinated for a number of people together.” He said nine people went on the hunt plus another half dozen for moral support.

Moral support aside, this is how all people who hunt in groups/camps go about their hunts. I don’t know anyone who says their group decided today to hit the road tomorrow.

Closing the entire area so that a few people can hunt is completely ludicrous, for obvious reasons.

Furthermore, from the Parks’ voiced perspective,

“Harvest rates will be kept within a sustainable level based on park surveys of the species, and will not have an impact on the sustainability of the wildlife populations in Jasper National Park,” Steve Young, public relations and communications officer for JNP, said in a press release issued last week.

Well, maybe we should open up a draw in National Parks because it will not have an impact on the sustainability of the wildlife populations. Something along the lines of bison or goat hunt here in Alberta. Why not? Clearly use of firearms within the park boundaries isn’t a concern and wildlife populations are not effected. Winners should obviously get to choose the area that is to be closed for the duration of the hunt up to one week. I know exactly where I’d be heading to harvest likely one of the biggest bulls in Jasper (Canada?).

No, I am not proposing a draw in any of the Parks because that is pretty crazy. Just as allowing a hunt like this in the same Parks is.

Edit: I see Dave addressed some of these same points in his post above. It took me several “sittings” to write the post in between attending to other things.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by GMX

Simple solution make them cut one horn in half at the kill site like up north. Sustenance hunting isn’t collecting racks.

They cut the skull plate in half in Alaska.
What is the point of that (aside from entering into the book, which anyone I know doesn't do anyways)?

Forfeit the head and antlers on any animal killed under the guise of subsistence hunting!! How many "hunters" would show up for the hunt in Jasper if that were the case? I'd put a lot of money on one

On a side note, nice to hear firearms can now be carried in a national park

[cowboyhunter]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

They cut the skull plate in half in Alaska.
What is the point of that (aside from entering into the book, which anyone I know doesn't do anyways)?

Forfeit the head and antlers on any animal killed under the guise of subsistence hunting!! How many "hunters" would show up for the hunt in Jasper if that were the case? I'd put a lot of money on one

On a side note, nice to hear firearms can now be carried in a national park

This!🍻🍻

[sioux 1876]

I am a treaty Indian.

My grandfathers, grandfathers hunted This land long before there was a park, before there was an Alberta before there was a Canada.

You guys are quick to get upset and frustrated.

The end goal is to manage and protect the animals. Just like you have bad apples we do too. I am not speaking for everyone but we frown or look down on individuals that trophy hunt.

I am sorry that you all feel this way. But your government has made this possible, take it up with them.

In the meantime I wil continue to hunt our traditional lands that we never surrendered, Canada cannot provide a bill of sale for this land.

On this site you have very little education or input from a treaty indian. I watch all the treads and have been talked to by the moderators about voicing my concern. To “tread lightly” or to watch my comments.

It is sad that you guys do not know our views or end goals. But you continue to benefit as a country from our natural resources.

How many of you actually know how to greet or say hello in your areas to that tribe?

How many of you know what treaty you are in?

Guarantee my post will be deleted, and I will be booted because the reality is…you don’t want to see a Treaty Indians points or views.

Eyahr Hey Nakoda

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by sioux 1876

I am a treaty Indian.

My grandfathers, grandfathers hunted This land long before there was a park, before there was an Alberta before there was a Canada.

You guys are quick to get upset and frustrated.

The end goal is to manage and protect the animals. Just like you have bad apples we do too. I am not speaking for everyone but we frown or look down on individuals that trophy hunt.

I am sorry that you all feel this way. But your government has made this possible, take it up with them.

In the meantime I wil continue to hunt our traditional lands that we never surrendered, Canada cannot provide a bill of sale for this land.

On this site you have very little education or input from a treaty indian. I watch all the treads and have been talked to by the moderators about voicing my concern. To “tread lightly” or to watch my comments.

It is sad that you guys do not know our views or end goals. But you continue to benefit as a country from our natural resources.

How many of you actually know how to greet or say hello in your areas to that tribe?

How many of you know what treaty you are in?

Guarantee my post will be deleted, and I will be booted because the reality is…you don’t want to see a Treaty Indians points or views.

Eyahr Hey Nakoda

While I completely disagree with some of the points you are making, I would like to know what is the end goal is.

I’d also appreciate some input on the hunt that is going to take place from a treaty Indian. I mean it, I am all for further education, if not in this thread, I would greatly appreciate a sincere discussion via PM.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by sioux 1876

I am a treaty Indian.

My grandfathers, grandfathers hunted This land long before there was a park, before there was an Alberta before there was a Canada.

You guys are quick to get upset and frustrated.

The end goal is to manage and protect the animals. Just like you have bad apples we do too. I am not speaking for everyone but we frown or look down on individuals that trophy hunt.

I am sorry that you all feel this way. But your government has made this possible, take it up with them.

In the meantime I wil continue to hunt our traditional lands that we never surrendered, Canada cannot provide a bill of sale for this land.

On this site you have very little education or input from a treaty indian. I watch all the treads and have been talked to by the moderators about voicing my concern. To “tread lightly” or to watch my comments.

It is sad that you guys do not know our views or end goals. But you continue to benefit as a country from our natural resources.

How many of you actually know how to greet or say hello in your areas to that tribe?

How many of you know what treaty you are in?

Guarantee my post will be deleted, and I will be booted because the reality is…you don’t want to see a Treaty Indians points or views.

Eyahr Hey Nakoda

There is no reason for your post to be erased or for you to be booted over it. Personally I see no issue with you posting your perspective of the situation and providing information from your stance on it

Unfortunately many only get to see the negative aspects of FN hunting from those who abuse their rights rather than those who hunt in a responsible manner. This has caused many to have a distain for all FN hunting

At the same time many FN don’t respect that hunting runs very deep in many non FN cultures too. There is many non FNs families with strong hunting values and traditions

There is a lack of respect and understanding between both parties when it comes to hunting traditions. The real difference is FN hunting traditions is protected by treaties where non FN have little to no protection in Canada

Remember respect is a two way street and when one party demands respect from another without returning it doesn’t create smooth relationships.

No I don’t know how greet the local tribe but they also don’t seem to have much interest in reaching out either. I have worked with a few great people from the local band and welcome them just as anyone else who I have positive interactions with.

I do not research what treaty I am in when I move to an area

What I do is respect individuals on their attitudes and actions regardless of race, religion or culture. As I realize there is good and bad in all groups

No I don’t agree with the hunt in Jasper and that won’t change

Personally I am in full support of hearing your stance on things if I agree with it or not. But remember respect is a two way street and a big problem with present issues is among FN and non FN is both are guilty of being one sided without considering the other