Stratmore and Chestamere police go MAD

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

I based it on my opinion, and how the situation "unfolded" (ie. was told).

Police are not going to mess around when someone says a gun was fired at them (whether that happened or not), but judging by the "standoff" this guy/family has more than likely had confrontations with LEO's before and they decided to make a stand.

FTR. Innocent people don't continue bathing their nephews when the police are knocking at their door for 30mins, especially when they're asking you to come outside.

Let's break it down, from an RCMP perspective..

"shots fired" most people come outside and are detained, one stays inside (and refuses to come outside) with two young kids (kidnapped?, held with guns?).

See how the situation can change with many possible outcomes?

Oh and one more thing, knowing the area (strathmore/chestemere), and the amount/type of crime, the RCMP's reaction doesn't surprise me.

Lol, that’s some pretty ass-u-me ing you’re doing there.

A dozen cops, you’d think at least one of them would have the confidence and common sense to approach the situation in a civil manner. Did they talk to the woman who got shot at to find out exactly where and how it all went down?? Totally unprofessional, a bunch of inexperienced chicken shts.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Kidnapped? Held at gunpoint? Now you are really grasping, they were told by the homeowner that his brother was looking after the children, not some strangers that had broken in

Not grasping at all.

These are the questions/issues the LEO's have to deal with.

Pretend for a moment you were a LEO arriving on scene. two "suspects" arrested, homeowners' getting more and more agitated, one person refusing to come out, supposedly in the same room as two young kids. Shots were fired from the residence prior to arrival.

You're missing the key points "shots fired", "kids", "someone refusing to cooperate". Nobody cares if it was his brother watching the kids. Did you know that the majority of domestic disturbances involve close family/friends?

they were told by the homeowner

That's what the homeowner "remembers". In high stress situations, what the victim thinks happened vs what actually happened rarely line up.

Regarding all the rest your questions. They located (and detained) the individuals, and as is standard protocol they Secured the scene (which includes ALL people at the scene) after "shots fired", and they questioned all that were at the scene. This is standard protocol, and with how the HO (and brother) were not being 100% cooperative, I'm not surprised they were held during questioning.

Respect the law, and they'll respect you back.. Or you could make a video and expect payment, whoops I meant sympathy.

As for the kids. I highly doubt that is what happened, but nothing like exaggeration/drama to make a good video.

Yes there are holes in the story, but they aren't all relating to the homeowner.

Agreed, there are holes on both sides, and we'll never know the truth, but to blindly jump on HO's side w/o questioning his story is ignorant (this isn't directed at you elkhunter, it's a general comment). IMHO, we seemed to have flipped the script, and assumed 100% that the RCMP were wrong and should be punished w/o even thinking that the victim may be lying or wrong.

I get that there is no trust in LEO's anymore (and that needs to change), but we need to be more critical of these "victims" as well.

The biggest red flag on this whole story for me, is he did a facebook live video to "save his story" before he forgets. Wouldn't a simple video suffice? Nope. I'd be curious to interview him in a week, and see how much his story changes from his video.

At any rate, doesn't really matter.

[elkhunter11]

Shots were fired from the residence prior to arrival.

Where did you come up with that? From what I read and watched, shots were fired on the property, outside of the residence. Had shots been fired in or from the residence, that the family was in, that would change the situation entirely.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

A dozen cops, you’d think at least one of them would have the confidence and common sense to approach the situation in a civil manner. Did they talk to the woman who got shot at to find out exactly where and how it all went down?? Totally unprofessional,

Approach the situation in a civil manner? Let's see, shots fired, and people refusing to come outside. With reports of shots fired at someone, there is no more "civil" way to handle it, until the scene is secured.

They secured the scene as required by standard protocol. end of story. The investigation starts AFTER the scene is secured.

You guys are really talking this HO's story as 100% truth. You need to look/think outside the box.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Where did you come up with that? From what I read and watched, shots were fired on the property, outside of the residence. Had shots been fired in or from the residence, that the family was in, that would change the situation entirely.

sorry, I should've said property (not residence).

Well you are correct, but, a neighbor reported (or thought) that they were being shot at, and called 911. That is what started the whole thing.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/shooting-...t%3DAjaxLayout

I bet the police arrived to talk to the neighbors, but heard shots, called for backup.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Approach the situation in a civil manner? Let's see, shots fired, and people refusing to come outside. With reports of shots fired at someone, there is no more "civil" way to handle it, until the scene is secured.

They secured the scene as required by standard protocol. end of story. The investigation starts AFTER the scene is secured.

You guys are really talking this HO's story as 100% truth. You need to look/think outside the box.

Everything else aside, how do you explain the homeowner being taken into custody, and then held for several hours , and then released with no charges? The police already had the described suspects in custody, they had secured the firearms from the suspects vehicle, they had verified that there were no firearms in the home, all before the homeowner was hauled off to jail. At that point, were no charges against the homeowner, yet they hauled him to jail. That part of the this makes no sense to me.

[bobtodrick]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Everything else aside, how do you explain the homeowner being taken into custody, and then held for several hours , and then released with no charges? The police already had the described suspects in custody, they had secured the firearms from the suspects vehicle, they had verified that there were no firearms in the home, all before the homeowner was hauled off to jail. At that point, were no charges against the homeowner, yet they hauled him to jail. That part of the this makes no sense to me.

It's called 'questioning'.

[R3illy]

gotta love how ken makes a million assumptions based off nothing and seems to think other posters are trash.

Put me in the group that would like to use my own land for how I see fit and for having a police force that would use some common sense before destroying my property.

Is the story somewhere in the middle from what we know? You bet... but that doesnt make the guy a criminal or mean the story is wrong/fake as suggested by one or two people.

[R3illy]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

It's called 'questioning'.

no he was arrested and eventually released. Theres a major difference between questioning/arresting.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Read it again.
'When you watch cops, they stand there pockets loaded' saying not mine- was the intent of the reply

Yes, I understand that, but I'm saying there doesn't even appear to be anything there to even say "not mine" about. How do you say "not mine" when there is no knife, no guns, no drugs, no needles, nothing illegal what-so-ever. That imaginary gun that you didn't find isn't mine?

Regardless, I'll be interested to see how this plays out.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Everything else aside, how do you explain the homeowner being taken into custody, and then held for several hours , and then released with no charges? The police already had the described suspects in custody, they had secured the firearms from the suspects vehicle, they had verified that there were no firearms in the home, all before the homeowner was hauled off to jail. At that point, were no charges against the homeowner, yet they hauled him to jail. That part of the this makes no sense to me.

Not sure. Could be multiple things.

-known to police?
-sometimes when people are arrested and in a state of distress, they will hold onto them for a few hours until they calm down (I don't agree with this, but it does happen).
-him being the HO, they may have wanted to verify his story (about them shooting gophers), but needed him to calm down?
-Maybe he wasn't as cooperative as he let on?

IDK.

TBH.. The only real BIG concern I have with this situation (from an outsider), is if the kids were actually left "abandoned". But I highly doubt that is the case. Sensationalism is a thing.

IMHO, the HO (and brother) had every chance to prevent this from escalating the way it did. HO should've taken the two minutes to dry his kids off, and taken them outside when he was first called. end of story.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by bobtodrick

It's called 'questioning'.

And why would they need to take him to jail and hold him until 1am to ask him some questions? Are the police not capable of asking questions in the home? It's not like he was actually involved in the shooting.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by R3illy

no he was arrested and eventually released. Theres a major difference between questioning/arresting.

According to who? If he was being uncooperative, you can bet he would be arrested until he calmed down, then questioned.

[Trochu]

Not sure why these cops even had their guns out, wouldn't they be concerned with the bullet ricocheting and striking someone if they were to fire?

[HunterDave]

Has there recently been a significant firearms related incident in the area?

After the Mayerthorpe tragedy the RCMP in this area were noticeably much more intense wrt even seeing someone with a firearm. Case in point......There was a fella shooting gophers on land that he had permission to shoot/hunt on and an RCMP car came screaming in and the lone Officer made a high risk take down of the old fella. This didn't result from a complaint, the Officer merely heard the shots and decided to investigate. The guy wasn't arrested or anything but he was subject to a very intense situation.

That's kind of what it was like around here for awhile but has since toned down quite a bit.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

HO should've taken the two minutes to dry his kids off, and taken them outside when he was first called. end of story.

Good to know, if the police call me at 9 PM asking if I can come to the door to chat, go wrangled up all my kids, get them dressed, and parade everyone to the door. You're joking, right?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Not sure. Could be multiple things.

-known to police?
-sometimes when people are arrested and in a state of distress, they will hold onto them for a few hours until they calm down (I don't agree with this, but it does happen).
-him being the HO, they may have wanted to verify his story (about them shooting gophers), but needed him to calm down?
-Maybe he wasn't as cooperative as he let on?

IDK.

TBH.. The only real BIG concern I have with this situation (from an outsider), is if the kids were actually left "abandoned". But I highly doubt that is the case. Sensationalism is a thing.

IMHO, the HO (and brother) had every chance to prevent this from escalating the way it did. HO should've taken the two minutes to dry his kids off, and taken them outside when he was first called. end of story.

So if you were told to immediately come outside with your hands up, do you think that taking a few minutes to go to your children , take them from the bath, and dry them off , and then take them out with you, would be the best idea? As edgy as the police were, a few minutes might have escalated things even further.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

IMHO, the HO (and brother) had every chance to prevent this from escalating the way it did. HO should've taken the two minutes to dry his kids off, and taken them outside when he was first called. end of story.

Police or not, I think that I would have been reluctant to send my kids out towards a bunch of rifles being aimed at them as well. I honestly don't know how I would have handled that.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Good to know, if the police call me at 9 PM asking if I can come to the door to chat, go wrangled up all my kids, get them dressed, and parade everyone to the door. You're joking, right?

Sounds almost as ridiculous as being in a standoff with police because they didn't want to take their kids out of the bath.

Makes you wonder..

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So if you were told to immediately come outside with your hands up, do you think that taking a few minutes to go to your children , take them from the bath, and dry them off , and then take them out with you, would be the best idea? As edgy as the police were, a few minutes might have escalated things even further.

Probably not, but I would've told the brother to dry them off and get them into clothes because they'll probably want everyone out, instead of flat out refusing for 30minutes.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Police or not, I think that I would have been reluctant to send my kids out towards a bunch of rifles being aimed at them as well. I honestly don't know how I would have handled that.

I'm pretty sure it only got to that point because of how the HO's were acting. I wouldn't have told my wife to video tape, I would've told her to get the kids.
Police aren't gonna shoot at a mom carrying her kids.

[JB_AOL]

There's so many better ways this could've been handled (on both sides).

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Probably not, but I would've told the brother to dry them off and get them into clothes because they'll probably want everyone out, instead of flat out refusing for 30minutes.

Just to clarify, the homeowner was not the one that refused to come out, he apparently did as he was told, and came out immediately, and according to him, he offered to phone his brother to tell him to come out, but the police officer refused to let him use the phone.

I'm pretty sure it only got to that point because of how the HO's were acting. I wouldn't have told my wife to video tape, I would've told her to get the kids.
Police aren't gonna shoot at a mom carrying her kids.

It sounds to me like firearms were being pointed at the homeowner and his wife before the brother refused to come out, even after they were face down with cuffs on, so it's pretty naive to think that firearms would not have been pointed towards the children, regardless of when the brother brought them out.

[Scott N]

The gap in trust between the general public and law enforcement sure seems to be growing in Canada these days.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Scott N

The gap in trust between the general public and law enforcement sure seems to be growing in Canada these days.

Exactly, and every time the public hears of an incident like this, or the Vancouver Airport incident, or the High River firearms seizure, that gap widens. And trust takes a lot longer to earn, than to lose.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Has there recently been a significant firearms related incident in the area?

I was told per/capita, chestermere has one of the highest RCMP officers/resident ratio, but that was about 8 years ago. And at the time nobody wanted to work there due to the crimes that were happening. Specifically gang/drug related. I don't know what it's like now.

[bobtodrick]

A lot of people don't have a hot clue how LE works.
No point in continuing this thread in my opinion.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Just to clarify, the homeowner was not the one that refused to come out, he apparently did as he was told, and came out immediately, and according to him, he offered to phone his brother to tell him to come out, but the police officer refused to let him use the phone.



It sounds to me like firearms were being pointed at the homeowner and his wife before the brother refused to come out, even after they were face down with cuffs on, so it's pretty naive to think that firearms would not have been pointed towards the children, regardless of when the brother brought them out.

I'll disagree with this part, the longer a situation goes on, the more it escalates. While yes, they may still of had guns drawn, it may not have been 12 officers. My mentality would be, the longer he stays in, the more it looks like he's hiding (or planning) something. Remember they may (or may not) know this family from a hole in the ground.

Yeah. IDK, we weren't there, we're basing it off the HO's recollection.

The interesting part of this all, is the charges were not posted? Were they firearms related?

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Scott N

The gap in trust between the general public and law enforcement sure seems to be growing in Canada these days.

And that's based on lack of knowledge. People are blaming LEO's for stuff that is out of their hands.

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Sounds almost as ridiculous as being in a standoff with police because they didn't want to take their kids out of the bath.

Makes you wonder..

whats ridiculous is that the cops couldn't put 2 + 2 together.

help me with my limited police work below

1) probably the guys in the field would have been the first suspects????
2) regardless of the owners lack of cooperation/et, how is the wife even implicated when the neighbour said it was a man that pointed a gun? why did they need to take her down like that????

obviously the cops have an axe to grind with this guy, and they had an opportunity to stick it to his whole family, and did it. real heros'

and wasn't it a strathmore cop that gave a ticket to a mom dropping her kids off at school that didn't have her plates tagged??? threatening her "not to fight it"????

sounds like a bunch of real dicks at that detachment(IMHO). full stop. not all cops are salt of the earth like some try to portray them.