grazing lease access

[bender]

For you trappers who have your RFMA on grazing lease (white zone leases in the foothills primarily) ,I would like to hear about any disputes over access with the agricultural lease holder you have had. I would prefer to recieve these as personal messages as I am pursuing this matter with SRD in an escalated conflict with a local lease owner who is on my RFMA.Thanks

[KI-UTE]

please, tell us more.

[bender]

I will post more ,but I am waiting for a meeting this week with regional area land and wildlife staff. It is then being discussed at a much higher level the following week. My case (in my opinion) is a clear cut case of abuse by a local
grazing lease disposition holder. I am letting the process take place ,but will not back down and not let my rights be ignored.Thanks

[sourdough doug]

Good Day to you Bender,
It is situations like this that can really scare me. I'm sure a decision can and will be made, however, what can and, as I said b4, will be the far reaching result of such a decision and how will it affect everyone else in the watershed. We are all stakeholders of the land and whenever conflict arises, usually not all are happy with the results and the cycle of hostilities starts ..In so many cases rules and regulations are implemented becuz of such instances., and more people are affected negatively than on the up side.
There is, I'm sure, more to this story than what you have told us but pls keep in mind that for every action there is a reaction and not all of them are favorable.. Hope things are resolved quickly and any misunderstandings rectified..

[Hellacious]

Any news or update on this situation or the what the problem is?

[bwcweld]

dont forget lease holders pay for the rights to that lease when they move onto it. Plus they pay the tax on it. Its in the rights of the leaseholder to refuse all un reasonable access. If they flex these rights....good for them. They are the ones who bought the lease land in the first place and are responsible for maintaining it. Just because it's lease doesnt mean its everybody's to do whatever they want with. If you dont respect the lease holders theyre going to make things hard for you. And word travels fast omongst these guys.. Remember youre not entitled to a warm welcome on lease land. You still have to earn it.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by bwcweld

dont forget lease holders pay for the rights to that lease when they move onto it. Plus they pay the tax on it. Its in the rights of the leaseholder to refuse all un reasonable access. If they flex these rights....good for them. They are the ones who bought the lease land in the first place and are responsible for maintaining it. Just because it's lease doesnt mean its everybody's to do whatever they want with. If you dont respect the lease holders theyre going to make things hard for you. And word travels fast omongst these guys.. Remember youre not entitled to a warm welcome on lease land. You still have to earn it.

You need to remember that there are laws in place that state the leaseowner's DO NOT have the right to refuse access without a legitimate position as described in the Alberta Lands Act. Government Lease managers must be held accountable to uphold the law.

[bwcweld]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

You need to remember that there are laws in place that state the leaseowner's DO NOT have the right to refuse access without a legitimate position as described in the Alberta Lands Act. Government Lease managers must be held accountable to uphold the law.

Like I said they have the right to refuse types of access and also have the right s to refuse ALL hunting/trapping access. You can still post lease land and people still have the obligation to contact the lease holder for access onto the property if posted. Foot access is okay but if your going to be hunting or trapping these posted landsyou need to contact the lease holder. A main reason for this is to limit amount of people hunting these properties at one time. If a leaseholder wants to post their leaseland so they can go out and hunt a couple days a week then let someone else on the rest of the time, why not. Its more safe.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by bwcweld

Like I said they have the right to refuse types of access and also have the right s to refuse ALL hunting/trapping access. You can still post lease land and people still have the obligation to contact the lease holder for access onto the property if posted. Foot access is okay but if your going to be hunting or trapping these posted landsyou need to contact the lease holder. A main reason for this is to limit amount of people hunting these properties at one time. If a leaseholder wants to post their leaseland so they can go out and hunt a couple days a week then let someone else on the rest of the time, why not. Its more safe.

And what you're saying is wrong.

Grazing leaseholders MUST allow permitted recreational and exploration access as defined in the Public Lands Act. Yes, there are conditional requirements for this access, for both the leaseholder and parties accessing these Public Lands.

The laws are all here.

Alberta Public Lands Act
http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?pag...=9780779743100


Alberta Public Lands Recreational Access Regulations
http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?pag...=9780779748112


Grazing Lease Stewardship Code of Practice
http://www.srd.alberta.ca/BioDiversi...Dec2014-07.pdf

[bwcweld]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

And what you're saying is wrong.

Grazing leaseholders MUST allow permitted recreational and exploration access as defined in the Public Lands Act. Yes, there are conditional requirements for this access, for both the leaseholder and parties accessing these Public Lands.

The laws are all here.

Alberta Public Lands Act
http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?pag...=9780779743100


Alberta Public Lands Recreational Access Regulations
http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?pag...=9780779748112


Grazing Lease Stewardship Code of Practice
http://www.srd.alberta.ca/BioDiversi...Dec2014-07.pdf

Maybe if your going to quote these sites you should read them first. Try sections 5 and 6 of the regs to start. Pretty much covers what I said

[bwcweld]

Never once said they can refuse access just any unreasonable.

[bwcweld]

And you can refuse all hunting access if you have livestock in the vicinity...This also means accross the fence. You just have to abide by your own stipulations. Maybe miscommunication? I dont know. But the point I'm trying to get accross is that if someone denys you access to lease land they likely have a good reason for it. But I'll agree on the fact that theres always someone who wants to make it hard on everyone.

[McLeod Valley]

If your registered line is on a grazing lease trap it , the rarcher payes the province to graze it and you pay the province to trap it , what is the issue here , keep the winter kill to a min. and do your job , just like he is doing!!!!

[KI-UTE]

BWCWELD, you have spoken like a true Farmer/Rancher. I take it that this is what you are.

Public land... land that is owned by the public. Funny how when someone gets the priveledge to make money off OUR public land, they like to act like they own it.

Laws were made to be changed.

The registered trapper in this instance as well has legal rights to this land, and these rights are not considered as recreational.

A rancher may keep a Resident trapper from Publicly Owned land that he has under grazing disposition. This kind of trapping is largely considered recreational in most discussions.

In scenarios such as what this is starting to sound like, an awful lot could have and should have been dealt with prior to any sort of conflict, and the individual in question trapping this line should have used common sense in considering where his trapline's locality was and been considerate of the leaseholders "ways" and took one for the team, and in doing so not shed bad light on the trappers of Alberta, causing legal ramifications for years to come.

Just wait 'til ole Teddy and MR Eddy get a new act figured out for us trappers. After this communist land expropriation act, what to think they'll have for us!!!

Now can you please shed some more light on this subject too so that we can help you out.

Cuz it might not be the conflict I'm thinkin' of, and we wouldn't want to waste our time.

Is the leaseholder blocking access to your trapline cuz he doesn't like you or anybody else, or were you wanting to build your trapper cabin in the middle of his calving field?

[bender]

I am glad to see this has sparked a little conversation regarding a persons right to public land . My RFMA has existed before this land was fenced for grazing dispositions. On any lease land that occupied my trapline I have had great cooperation from my rancher nieghbors as it was in there interest as well to eliminate the growing number of wolves. We (me and my partner ,being from ranch backgrounds ourselves) respect the leaseowners right to the land and realize healthy grass hopefully encourages some profit. My fight was with an individual who abuses his leases interest more for his hunting outfitter operation than grazing cows. Come hunting season like clockwork lease road gates locks would be changed and access would be denied. No rational conversation with the individual would change his bully mentality. I am not one to back down ,so everything was documented and when threats where being made against me I pursued a meeting with our regional office. I can tell you I have recieved great support from my local fish and wildlife members as well as the local land folks. You have the right to trap your RFMA and use the tools needed to accomplish this (snowmobile,etc.). Thinking that if I did not start trapping till Dec this would accomodate this outfitter.Apparently he still had a problem with me (and cat season runs till Feb 28)so our meeting with the regional folks was needed. I
wish to be clear here. This land is used for trapping ,not to gain recreational access for hunting,fishing,berrypicking or whatever. I am not making that arguement here. My problem is how can a leaseowner can prevent an RFMA holder from entering a piece of public land well after the season where any ranchers interests as far as grazing go could be a matter of concern.
This issue did grab some peoples attention in Edmonton and was resolved
quickly and I have once again gone back to my wolf snaring. The ADM is now briefing regional managers about these conflicts and the assistant deputy minister has assured me that trappers rights will be acknowleged and respected. Cooperation between all dispositon holders is needed in todays world,but in failing that regional staff need clear cut direction to curb any unnecessary escalation. With urbanites buying up ranches now my next fight could be with an animal rights activist who has purchased a grazing disposition .You never know .Who thought trapping could be this complicated

[bwcweld]

Originally Posted by bender

I am glad to see this has sparked a little conversation regarding a persons right to public land . My RFMA has existed before this land was fenced for grazing dispositions. On any lease land that occupied my trapline I have had great cooperation from my rancher nieghbors as it was in there interest as well to eliminate the growing number of wolves. We (me and my partner ,being from ranch backgrounds ourselves) respect the leaseowners right to the land and realize healthy grass hopefully encourages some profit. My fight was with an individual who abuses his leases interest more for his hunting outfitter operation than grazing cows. Come hunting season like clockwork lease road gates locks would be changed and access would be denied. No rational conversation with the individual would change his bully mentality. I am not one to back down ,so everything was documented and when threats where being made against me I pursued a meeting with our regional office. I can tell you I have recieved great support from my local fish and wildlife members as well as the local land folks. You have the right to trap your RFMA and use the tools needed to accomplish this (snowmobile,etc.). Thinking that if I did not start trapping till Dec this would accomodate this outfitter.Apparently he still had a problem with me (and cat season runs till Feb 28)so our meeting with the regional folks was needed. I
wish to be clear here. This land is used for trapping ,not to gain recreational access for hunting,fishing,berrypicking or whatever. I am not making that arguement here. My problem is how can a leaseowner can prevent an RFMA holder from entering a piece of public land well after the season where any ranchers interests as far as grazing go could be a matter of concern.
This issue did grab some peoples attention in Edmonton and was resolved
quickly and I have once again gone back to my wolf snaring. The ADM is now briefing regional managers about these conflicts and the assistant deputy minister has assured me that trappers rights will be acknowleged and respected. Cooperation between all dispositon holders is needed in todays world,but in failing that regional staff need clear cut direction to curb any unnecessary escalation. With urbanites buying up ranches now my next fight could be with an animal rights activist who has purchased a grazing disposition .You never know .Who thought trapping could be this complicated

Well put. I'm no animal rights activist. I hunt coyotes and deer and enjoy the land the same as you guys do and have no problem sharing it. I would actually like to get into trapping myself. Guess I mistook this ad as people not respecting the guys who run this land. Well I was wrong. One thing I do have a problem with is nature conservancy but we won't get into that. Once again I'm sorry for mis understanding this thread. Happy trappin'

[wolfkilr]

Bender, you sure went about this the right way, one step at a time. I can't imagine the problems you would have had if you would have had to deal through the proposed DAO structure rather than dealing with SRD directly. Just shows AGAIN SRD are very cooperative and working well with us trapppers. They are not trying to boot us off our traplines.

Job well done Bender.