True/False, safe/unsafe??????

[ABwhitetail]

What are some of the sign's that you are reaching un safe pressures when re-loading?

What are some of variables when going up in powder weights that effect pressure, in terms of how you re-load?

I was told once that when seating your bullet, you should try and seat it as long as you can to fit your magazine (I have a detachable clip Browning) is this true?

How close "SAFELY" can you come to 100% load density?

What effects do different speeds of powder burn have on accuracy and performance (Coles Notes Version)?

I really appreciate any information you guys can share...I know that these may be some deep questions, but any info is GREAT...No offence to anyones age, but there seems to be about a million years of TRUE FIELD experience on this forum.....you can't get that from books.....

[Bull Shooter]

ABWhitetail, with all due respect, you need to be very careful when reloading components and your best information will come from books. Any information I have gathered or shared with fellow firearm enthusiasts is always cross-referenced against reloading manuals and other relative technical manuals.

Pressure: When reloading a variety of powder weights for a particular firearm it is very important that you begin at the minimum charges and work your way up. This becomes particularly important as some actions (older and newer) were not designed for higher pressure powders or might have flaws that will be exposed at the firing range. Excessive pressure signs on cartridges may include bulged primers or cases and case splitting.

Bullet seating: Often (but not always) a firearm’s best accuracy will be achieved by seating the bullet close to and just off the lands. A problem that some shooters experienced was that by extending the cartridge overall length, they were unable to fit the longer cartridge into the magazine or clip. The accuracy of the firearm has little to do with the cartridge fitting the magazine but rather is a consideration of utility. I purchased bullet micrometers for various cartridges and that gives me an overall length range for various firearms.

100% load density: Stick with the manual’s recommendations! I have several older reloading manuals and they usually allow for a few more grains. If you are just starting to reload, don’t stray from the books... it could be very dangerous to you and your firearm.

I have always related powder burn rates to cartridge efficiency. A larger, magnum-type cartridge usually performs better with a slower burning powder. There are some good resources on the internet on powder and burn rates. Further, some powders may be more susceptible to outside temperature, atmospheric pressure, altitude, etc. A load that shoots well for you in July with 30 degree temperatures may not perform the same in November with a temperature of -20. It’s always desirable to shoot in conditions that will be very similar to actual hunting situations. Some powders claim to reduce some of these external variables (i.e. – Varget).

What cartridge are you reloading for and what are your objectives (accuracy, speed, bullet weight, etc.)? Regards, Mike

[ABwhitetail]

Thanks for the info Mike,

I guess I should have been more clear...I have been reloading for about 3 or 4years now....and safety is my biggest concern....I follow the manuals to a tee, and never stray from load tables.....Even after I haven't reloaded for a while, I will pull out a manual and follow the step by step instructions just to insure I don't miss something.....

I in no means am saying manuals aren't usefull or important, because they are....But just like Hunting, Fishing, Shooting (or anything in life)....you can't learn everyhting from A book or magazine...you have to go out and do it....One thing that always helps the learning curve though is gaining knowledge from those whom have experience....

At that point I thank you, because immediatley the information you provided helps....

I am currently re-loading for a 300WSM....I have loaded Nosler partitions in 150, 165 and 180 gr. Nosler Ballistic tips in 150gr and 180 gr. And am currently looking at the Accubonds. I am looking for an all around combination for Deer, Moose, Elk and Bear....I am having a ton a fun trying different bullets, powders, seating depths, and charges....I guess i am just trying to get a better understanding of what really is happening when I make those changes, and with that info, expand my knowledge....

For example, I start getting cautious as I work my way up in the load tables in terms of charges.....and I have heared that that there are tell tale signs of pressures getting too high for your particular rifle....some of those signs are as you mentioned, and I have also heard you can hear a difference in the sound of the shot. last year while shooting one of the loads I was trying, I noticed that the neck of my brass started to show cracks starting right from the mouth....could I be too high in terms of pressure? or is my brass just over stressed? In this scenario I was only about at 82% density and it was the 3rd time i had used that brass.....

Some of the guys like Nube, Dick284 and Catinthehat (and others) have already shared some good info in terms of loads to try, which also helps some of the guess work....so thanks!!!.....Now I am just trying to get a little more knowledge for the range....to keep experimenting in a safe and progressive way.....

[Bull Shooter]

Okay, so I am assuming that you are sizing, trimming and chamfering your brass correctly. I’m also assuming that you are using good quality brass. If that is the case then the cracks you are noticing are likely from too much pressure. The only other thing that jumps out at me would be a “head-spacing” issue, but I would guess that you are shooting a newer rifle? Also, do you find that you have to constantly trim your brass to the correct length? When you say 82% load density how does that relate to the maximum recommended load? Under normal circumstances you should get a lot more than three loads per brass change.

One other thing, and you might already be aware of this, what works well in my rifle may not work well in your rifle and that’s why it’s good to get a lot of range time and shooting info on your particular firearm. Good luck and have fun… it’s an addictive undertaking. Regards, Mike

[ABwhitetail]

Yes, I am sizing, trimming and chamfering my cases.....I am using winchester brass...and the rifle is about 5 years old now

I find that after one round has been through the case....no trimming is required, after the second round...there is a bit of trimming, and after the 3rd, slightly more....

I get the 82% right out of the Nosler Reloading Manual....I was using a 60 grain charge of IMR4320 which is actually 81% not 82% as I stated before...matched up with a 150gr Accubond....this is the after working up from 55 grains....If I can remeber correctly I started seeing the cracks even before I got to the 60 grain charge....thats why I was wondering if it was worn cases or pressure that i should back away from.....I don't recall hearing any abnormal sounds at firing.....

This raises another question....If this particular powder creates too much pressure at 60 grains.....that does not mean another powder at 60 grains or higher will...correct?

And I do realize not all rifles are the same.....Again thanks for your help.....I am having a blast doing it.....its way more satisfying than buying a box of ammunition, even though there is some great stuff out there.....

[Pathfinder76]

Get several manuals, powders are NOT created equal, I like high load density, and the chronograph is your friend.

Chuck

[Unregistered user]

Necks crack usually because the brass has been resized too many times without being annealed. 3 times is a bit early though, I'd anneal that batch anyway. Google "powder burn rate chart" and you'll see just how different powders can be, e.g. 60 gr of red dot will turn your rifle into a hand grenade. I strongly recommend you get a copy of Lyman's 48th reloading manual, good luck.

[ABwhitetail]

I'm not familiar with "annealed".....I have been told that with magnum cartrigdes that it common to not get as many rounds through your brass as non-magnum cartridges...maybe that is the case.....

Thanks for the info...I will google away.....

[Bull Shooter]

According to some quick research, 60 grains of IMR4320 appears not to be a hot load and may indeed be a little under the max.

My suggestions would be:

1. Thoroughly clean the rifle bore and chamber to ensure there is no fouling. Fouling will increase pressure.
2. Purchase new brass. Perhaps you got a bad lot?
3. Double check your neck sizing procedures. Perhaps you have a faulty set-up?
4. Load towards the minimum, shoot and measure spent casing. Should be under 2.100”. Measure diameter of casing and if any bulges you may have a headspacing issue. A gunsmith should be able to determine this quite quickly with the aid of a Go – No Go gauge set.

In my opinion, and I am not a professional, by virtue of the 300 WSM’s rimless design, you should be holding much tighter tolerances which in turn should give you additional reloading opportunities with your brass. Good luck and safe shooting! Regards, Mike

Signs of excessive pressure include brass extrusion on the case head, increased resistance on lifting the bolt after firing the gun and expanded primer pockets.Probably the most reliable sign is that the primer pockets are loose when seating new primers.This usually shows up at lower pressure levels than the other signs,but is not usually evident until the case is loaded and fired a few times.

[Unregistered user]

to anneal your necks heat them cherry red and quench in water. It softens brass, copper etc. Reloader's nest has a good write up on the procedure.

[ABwhitetail]

thx for the info!

[Ice Fishing Maniac]

Its fun to experiment. I have a sweet load for my 300WM using 180gr Accubonds, and just now tweaking the load for my 270WSM using 140gr Accubonds.
My suggestion for your 300WSM is use the 165 or 180 grain Accubonds for everything. I would personally lean towards the 180's. You can seat the bullet as far out as long as it fits your clip and not touching the lands of your barrel. Your books will show pics of pressure signs.

I use RL 22 for my 300WM, but my rifle loves the load about 1.5gr. below the MAX listed in the Nosler book. One of my 270WSM loves Retumbo as a compressed load, the other 270WSM is about about 2 grains less, and now just tweaking the COAL. If I used the COAL for my rifle , the 270WSM would be over 3.1" (less a few thou to be off the lands) and its to much for my clip @ 2.904" and the cartridge OAL is 2.860 in the book.

[ABwhitetail]

Thanks Ice......something else to play with!!!!!

[Papershredder]

Sticky bolt lift is a sure sign that you are already too hot. A chrono is a must. There is a point as you work up a load called "The point of diminishing returns"; at this point your velocities will start to go up very little/not at all as you increase your powder charge. I generally stop at this point and begin working on accuracy improvments such as bullet seating depth from here.

A chrono is a must. There is a point as you work up a load called "The point of diminishing returns"; at this point your velocities will start to go up very little/not at all as you increase your powder charge.

Do not depend on this happening as it is quite common for it not to happen before unsafe pressures are reached.I have several rifles where the velocity increases very uniformly with increases in the powder charge until pressure signs such as brass extrusion occur.

[Papershredder]

Good point SJ. I wasn't trying to say this happens all the time. I was just trying to give an example of how a chrono can be a useful tool; beyond just showing velocity.

[ABwhitetail]

More great info....thanks,

What would be your suggestions in terms of where to buy, how much to spend, and brand....in regard to a decent Chrono??

[Papershredder]

About $115.00 at Russells Sports in Calgary for an F1 Chrony.

[ABwhitetail]

Perfect....I'm in edmonton, so I will check locally......

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

to anneal your necks heat them cherry red and quench in water. It softens brass, copper etc. Reloader's nest has a good write up on the procedure.

I never quench thee necks of my cases, as it tends to re-harden them to a certain extent.
I hold the individual cases in my fingers and spin them over a butane flame.
As sooon as they get too hot to hold I gently drop them on a soft cloth.

This works extremely well with snider and 577/450 cases as well as my 45/70's and my neck turned wildcats.
Cat

[ABwhitetail]

More great advice.....thx!!