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03-18-2012, 04:34 PM
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Location: On top of sphagetti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetjimmy
Apparently he can't defend himself. Defending himself would imply he was capable of shooting the dog. It's sad to see that when he needed to this officer wasn't able to hit what he aimed his gun at. Sadly, I'm guessing this is the norm not the exception.
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He said he fired warning shots. Even if he didn't, it's a small fast moving target he's shooting at, in a stressful situation. It's not a movie we are talking about here..
If it was a movie, he would have shot the dog in the paw. lol
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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03-18-2012, 04:35 PM
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Posts: 43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiantdi
If a mailman was legally allowed to, I wouldn't care. I don't think that innocent people would be dropping like flies if people used firearms to protect themselves against aggressive charging dogs.
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Let's just hope the mailman is a better shot than the cop. Its not he shooting that is that big of a deal to me. It's the missing.
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03-18-2012, 04:35 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: On top of sphagetti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetjimmy
Let's just hope the mailman is a better shot than the cop. Its not he shooting that is that big of a deal to me. It's the missing.
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He said he fired warning shots.
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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03-18-2012, 04:47 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,240
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Quote:
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He said he fired warning shots.
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That is not what the police spokesperson said in the interview.
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“As soon as he exited his vehicle, one of the dogs charged and attempted to bite him,” said duty inspector Chris Butler. “He discharged his firearm at the dog in defence of himself.”
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Quote:
I believe he was right AND he wasnt punished AND no information has come forward to prove otherwise.
You believe he was wrong, show me what procedure he broke.
I highly doubt you will.
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I maintain that we can't know if he followed the proper procedures, because we don't know all of the details. Whether the shots were fired as warning shots, or whether they were meant to kill the dog could be the determining factor as to whether he followed procedures. Since we can't be sure of that, we can't be sure if he followed procedures.
However, even though you don't know all of the details, somehow ,you seem convinced that the officer followed procedures to the letter.
Therefore, based on the information that we have, I am being realistic in what we can determine. On the other hand, you seen to be putting blind faith in the officers actions, even though you can't be sure of the details. You are assuming that not being punished is proof of innocence.
It is obvious that your mind is made up, and that even if it is discovered later that the officer did not follow procedures,I am sure that you will make up an excuse for his actions.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-18-2012, 04:55 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 550
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Super troopers
Seeing that the incident was resolved without something dying, do you not think that the situation could have been resolved without bullets being fired?? I mean there were no injuries sustained due to dog bites, and the dog wasn't shot to stop it from biting someone..seems to me like the situation wasn't handled properly. The ACO also did not receive injuries from the dog, so how aggressive could they have really been..let's be serious, putting all dog hating and cop hating aside.
I have a 70 pound lab/collie cross. His name is Louie. He barks at everyone who comes to the door, and man does he have a mean bark..But that is the only mean thing in him. he gets bullied by my girlfriends cat.
What would happen if the police were called to my house??
My dog would be barking at the cops, through the front patio door..now a glass patio door probably offers just as much protection as a cop car..so if the cops scared, he can shoot my dog??
Just saying, cops don't always need to use their guns. Nowadays, it seems like they have forgotten their other tools..
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03-18-2012, 04:59 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 5,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiantdi
If you are legally allowed to do so, and you thought you needed to, then I can't fault you for doing it.
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That's not the way it works, though. Nor should it.
ps: I am legally allowed to do so - IF my life is in danger. I am NOT allowed to shoot if the threat does warrant lethal force. That's the law. That's the law for me and that's the law for you.
__________________
"If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'" - J.W.
God made man. Sam Colt made them equal.
Make Alberta a better place. Have your liberal spayed or neutered.
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03-18-2012, 05:00 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 5,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiantdi
He said he fired warning shots.
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Then that was Strike 2.
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If it was a movie, he would have shot the dog in the paw. lol
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That was actually pretty funny...
__________________
"If everything isn't black and white, I say, 'Why the hell not?'" - J.W.
God made man. Sam Colt made them equal.
Make Alberta a better place. Have your liberal spayed or neutered.
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03-18-2012, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
That is not what the police spokesperson said in the interview.
I maintain that we can't know if he followed the proper procedures, because we don't know all of the details. Whether the shots were fired as warning shots, or whether they were meant to kill the dog could be the determining factor as to whether he followed procedures. Since we can't be sure of that, we can't be sure if he followed procedures.
However, even though you don't know all of the details, somehow ,you seem convinced that the officer followed procedures to the letter.
Therefore, based on the information that we have, I am being realistic in what we can determine. On the other hand, you seen to be putting blind faith in the officers actions, even though you can't be sure of the details.
You are assuming that not being punished is proof of innocence.
It is obvious that your mind is made up, and that even if it is discovered later that the officer did not follow procedures,I am sure that you will make up an excuse for his actions.
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You are accusing someone of something. The burden of proof is on the accuser. Find the procedure/policy.
I am not sure of the details, but I have a hard time finding fault in someone for defending themselves from a grievous threat with a firearm.
I am not saying that not being punished is proof of innocence, but I think it can indicate that he was probably within policy.
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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03-18-2012, 05:05 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky7
That's not the way it works, though. Nor should it.
ps: I am legally allowed to do so - IF my life is in danger. I am NOT allowed to shoot if the threat does warrant lethal force. That's the law. That's the law for me and that's the law for you.
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An attacking dog can cause grievous harm. That warrants lethal force imo
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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03-18-2012, 05:07 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 874
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cue the carnival music now . . .
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03-18-2012, 05:08 PM
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Location: Camrose
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Quote:
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An attacking dog can cause grievous harm. That warrants lethal force imo
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Then why wasn't lethal force used?
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03-18-2012, 05:08 PM
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Location: On top of sphagetti
Posts: 3,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMisler
Seeing that the incident was resolved without something dying, do you not think that the situation could have been resolved without bullets being fired?? I mean there were no injuries sustained due to dog bites, and the dog wasn't shot to stop it from biting someone..seems to me like the situation wasn't handled properly. The ACO also did not receive injuries from the dog, so how aggressive could they have really been..let's be serious, putting all dog hating and cop hating aside.
I have a 70 pound lab/collie cross. His name is Louie. He barks at everyone who comes to the door, and man does he have a mean bark..But that is the only mean thing in him. he gets bullied by my girlfriends cat.
What would happen if the police were called to my house??
My dog would be barking at the cops, through the front patio door..now a glass patio door probably offers just as much protection as a cop car..so if the cops scared, he can shoot my dog??
Just saying, cops don't always need to use their guns. Nowadays, it seems like they have forgotten their other tools..
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It doesn't matter if no one was hurt. If there was a THREAT, the officer can respond to said threat. A threat does not always equal injury/death. A police officer doesn't have to wait until a threat is followed through before he is allowed to act.
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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03-18-2012, 05:10 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
Then why wasn't lethal force used?
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Well, it is unclear whether or not the shots were warning shots. If he shot and missed, then the dog got scared off and was lucky. In that case, lethal force was deployed unsuccessfully and when the dog bolted, the lethal force stopped.
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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03-18-2012, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiantdi
He said he fired warning shots.
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Since when are police trained to fire warning shots when they feel they are in danger? They are trained to shoot to kill and stop the threat. Sounds to me like somebody making excuses for missing his target. Warning shots in a friggin school yard? Even better choice.
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03-18-2012, 05:13 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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You can't honostly think that firing warning shots, or shooting and missing is part of any police policy...
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03-18-2012, 05:15 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: On top of sphagetti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetjimmy
Since when are police trained to fire warning shots when they feel they are in danger? They are trained to shoot to kill and stop the threat. Sounds to me like somebody making excuses for missing his target. Warning shots in a friggin school yard? Even better choice.
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Ya, I don't know where I heard they were warning shots. I looked at an article and it is saying he shot at the dog and missed.. my bad.
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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03-18-2012, 05:18 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMisler
You can't honostly think that firing warning shots, or shooting and missing is part of any police policy...
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Do you honestly think that a police officer should be reprimanded for missing a small fast moving target while in a stressful situation? These are people we are talking about. A million hours of training isn't going to make anyone perfect. You have an unrealistic view of the police.
How old are you?
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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03-18-2012, 05:26 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiantdi
Do you honestly think that a police officer should be reprimanded for missing a small fast moving target while in a stressful situation? These are people we are talking about. A million hours of training isn't going to make anyone perfect. You have an unrealistic view of the police.
How old are you?
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It's not unrealistic to expect the guy to be able to use the tools he has or to be smart enough to know his own limitations and not pull out his gun if he can't hit the dog. Ahhh but there is the rub, now I'm expecting this officer to think instead of just pulling his gun and shooting up a school yard. These guys are supposed to be highly trained professionals that we trust to protect us.
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03-18-2012, 05:27 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 550
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Age?
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiantdi
Do you honestly think that a police officer should be reprimanded for missing a small fast moving target while in a stressful situation? These are people we are talking about. A million hours of training isn't going to make anyone perfect. You have an unrealistic view of the police.
How old are you?
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Really? You believe age has anything to do with it? You have got to be kidding me. Complete ignorance.
I not once suggested that because he missed a small moving target that he be reprimanded.
Its the discharging of the firearm, where it was discharged, and why.
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03-18-2012, 05:34 PM
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Location: Camrose
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Quote:
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Ya, I don't know where I heard they were warning shots.
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You were making up whatever excuse that you thought would support your case, and at that time warning shots seemed like the best choice. Now that people have pointed out that firing warning shots in a school yard would hardly fit with police policy, you switch the story. 
Quote:
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Do you honestly think that a police officer should be reprimanded for missing a small fast moving target while in a stressful situation? These are people we are talking about. A million hours of training isn't going to make anyone perfect. You have an unrealistic view of the police.
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If the dog was close enough to provide a real threat, I would expect that the officer would be able to connect with at least one shot out of the multiple shots that he fired. After all, the dog doesn't have a gun, he only has teeth and claws, so he needs to get up close and personal to do any harm. If the officer can't hit anything with multiple shots, what good is the gun to him. Do you expect him to be more accurate when someone is shooting back, and really threatening his life?
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03-18-2012, 06:03 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
You were making up whatever excuse that you thought would support your case, and at that time warning shots seemed like the best choice. Now that people have pointed out that firing warning shots in a school yard would hardly fit with police policy, you switch the story. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian
What I heard on the radio this morning was the the officer shot to scare the dogs off as he felt they were about to attack him. Seems reasonable, rather than shooting them, though I bet he now has a TON of paperwork to fill out.
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This is why I thought he fired warning shots. It was the second post on this thread. I didn't make up anything, nor change my story. Maybe you need to snap out of it??
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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03-18-2012, 06:04 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMisler
Really? You believe age has anything to do with it? You have got to be kidding me. Complete ignorance.
I not once suggested that because he missed a small moving target that he be reprimanded.
Its the discharging of the firearm, where it was discharged, and why.
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I thought that you were a younger person based on your comment about missing the target not being a part of police policy.
It seemed that you had an unrealistic view of the police.
Sorry if I offended you.
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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03-18-2012, 06:05 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: On top of sphagetti
Posts: 3,565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetjimmy
It's not unrealistic to expect the guy to be able to use the tools he has or to be smart enough to know his own limitations and not pull out his gun if he can't hit the dog. Ahhh but there is the rub, now I'm expecting this officer to think instead of just pulling his gun and shooting up a school yard. These guys are supposed to be highly trained professionals that we trust to protect us.
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Just because you might not hit your target while using a weapon in self defense, is no reason to not use it at all. Under ANY circumstance, you may miss your target. Does that mean that you can NEVER use your weapon to protect yourself?
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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03-18-2012, 06:27 PM
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Location: Camrose
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Quote:
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I didn't make up anything, nor change my story.
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Really? First you posted"
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He said he fired warning shots.
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And then you posted:
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Ya, I don't know where I heard they were warning shots. I looked at an article and it is saying he shot at the dog and missed..
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-18-2012, 06:27 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,240
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Quote:
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It's not unrealistic to expect the guy to be able to use the tools he has or to be smart enough to know his own limitations and not pull out his gun if he can't hit the dog. Ahhh but there is the rub, now I'm expecting this officer to think instead of just pulling his gun and shooting up a school yard. These guys are supposed to be highly trained professionals that we trust to protect us.
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Very well said, and a very reasonable expectation of someone that is allowed to carry a firearm in the performance of his duty.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-18-2012, 06:29 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: On top of sphagetti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
Really-First you posted"
And then you posted:
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What can i tell you, i made a mistake.
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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03-18-2012, 06:32 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
Very well said, and a very reasonable expectation of someone that is allowed to carry a firearm in the performance of his duty.
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So you really think its a realistic expectation for the police to only use their weapons in self defense if they can insure they dont miss?
No amount of training/experience can make someone hit the target 100% of the time.
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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03-18-2012, 06:37 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 45,240
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Quote:
So you really think its a realistic expectation for the police to only use their weapons in self defense if they can insure they dont miss?
No amount of training/experience can make someone hit the target 100% of the time.
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100% might be unreasonable, but so is firing multiple shots at a dog that is close enough to be a threat, and not hitting it with a single shot.
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Only accurate guns are interesting.
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03-18-2012, 06:39 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11
100% might be unreasonable, but so is firing multiple shots at a dog that is close enough to be a threat, and not hitting it with a single shot.
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Maybe he was holding the gun with one hand and had it cocked 90 degrees to one side? 
LC
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03-18-2012, 07:01 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck
Maybe he was holding the gun with one hand and had it cocked 90 degrees to one side?
LC |
Im not sure, they didnt mention if the officer was black.
J/k
__________________
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.
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