Outfitter allocations

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

That's a interesting idea. Every year I listen to residents cry about waterfowl outfitters tying up all the fields and having nowhere to hunt and there's only 4 outfitters max in each WMU.
Now you want to give us/them unlimited whitetail, elk, sheep and archery moose allocations as long as there isn't a draw ???

Could you imagine the Whaaaaa factor then lol

People will cry and bitch no matter what the numbers are. No it's not perfect in every zone but over all it's close to 10% across the province. I hear a lot of greed in many of these posts and that's pretty sad.

You are absolutely correct. What was I thinking. Have a draw for a minimal amount of non-res tags, spread evenly throughout the province.
10% across the province spread evenly MIGHT be fair.
GREED? Far from it.

[Pathfinder76]

What is Dave's title?

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by chuck

What is Dave's title?

Commercial Wildlife and Priority Species Specialist

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Have you read the current Outfitter Policy Agreement?

Doesn't sound like it.

It's been awhile WB

So feel free to elaborate for me ???

[huntingnut]

Originally Posted by chuck

Here are the numbers TD. This is why I don't like what I'm seeing. In WMU 302 there are 18 outfitter allocations and 13 resident tags for Mule Deer. In WMU 400 there are 15 outfitter allocations and 11 resident tags for Mule Deer. That isn't 10%. That isn't even close to 10%. This is where I hunt. This is where my kids will hunt (or won't hunt). So tell me why that is greedy.

If nothing else, they could at least increase the resident tags to make it even. 11 tags in 400? Wow.

I just checked and the numbers you listed for the outfitter allocations in the zones you specified and the total is correct when you include both archery and rifle permits together. However I would venture a guess that the numbers you have quoted for residents only apply to the rifle tags given out. Curious as to what the percentage would be when you add all the archery hunters in the zone into the calculation.

Still not saying everything is being done correctly but it would sure be nice for a constructive discussion if all the facts were represented correctly.

Also for everyone wondering there are lists of all allocations per WMU. Every outfitter has access to this info. I am sure there are other ways to access it as well but have never had the need to search for it.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

It's been awhile WB

So feel free to elaborate for me ???

Sure. Your post contradicts with the current Outfitter Allocation Agreement. It appears like you have not read the policy document. Have you?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by huntingnut

I just checked and the numbers you listed for the outfitter allocations in the zones you specified and the total is correct when you include both archery and rifle permits together. However I would venture a guess that the numbers you have quoted for residents only apply to the rifle tags given out. Curious as to what the percentage would be when you add all the archery hunters in the zone into the calculation.

Still not saying everything is being done correctly but it would sure be nice for a constructive discussion if all the facts were represented correctly.

Also for everyone wondering there are lists of all allocations per WMU. Every outfitter has access to this info. I am sure there are other ways to access it as well but have never had the need to search for it.

Those resident numbers are rifle/bow tags combined. There is no distinction between them and there is no general bow season.
Thems the facts.

[Dacotensis]

So who do I have to call to find out how many allocations there are in a zone?
I've read through this post and might have missed it, so a simple clear answer would be great.

I asked a bio last year and she could not tell me. And that sent me Over the edge on that particular day.
Thanks.
Ps.
Chuck. Good thread.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Dacotensis

So who do I have to call to find out how many allocations there are in a zone?
I've read through this post and might have missed it, so a simple clear answer would be great.

I asked a bio last year and she could not tell me. And that sent me Over the edge on that particular day.
Thanks.
Ps.
Chuck. Good thread.

APOS will give you that information.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Sure. Your post contradicts with the current Outfitter Allocation Agreement. It appears like you have not read the policy document. Have you?

Years ago I did. What part of the post contradicts the current policy ?

Are you talking about WMU's vs. SMU's ???

Why do you guys always insist on vague answers ? You're like a bunch of women on Facebook

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by chuck

APOS will give you that information.

Yes. Call Mabel and ask for the info you want. Be polite please, she's a very nice lady.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Chuck, have you spoken with Matt Besko and Dave Kay? These people are who I would suggest you need to talk to regarding your concerns.


....

Correct, Matt is the lead for the Policy review. He is the head of wildlife policy for Alberta

[purgatory.sv]

If you are looking at statistics you should make it a measured result.

The base should be the same for all.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

[/B]

According to ESRD they consult with APOS to set the allocation numbers for the various zones. ESRD certainly doesn't consult with the resident hunters to set the allocation numbers, so no, resident hunters do not have the same control over allocation numbers.

Exactly, this was an ESRD/APOS sweet heart deal and I wonder if the ESRD who agreed to it have a good answer why no one but ESRD/APOS were allowed in negotiations when the Minister asks them. Just another reason to add to the many that justify the end of APOS.

The government has to take control of tag allocations, classifying "what is a resident", eliminating all mule deer and antelope tags for non-residents, and banning any outfitter who has been convicted multiple times under the Wildlife Act. Much stiffer (at least something) for any outfitter who is convicted the first time.

For the record I have never hunted antelope and mule deer (for about 11 years) and have never hunted big game out of Alberta. My comments are not about more opportunities for me, they are about putting an end to a corrupt organization that has gone completely off the rails.

The statistic I would really like to see is how many current members of APOS have been convicted at least one time, and how many multiple times under the Wildlife Act.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Yes. Call Mabel and ask for the info you want. Be polite please, she's a very nice lady.

Yes she is!

[Brock1]

Originally Posted by chuck

Are you willing to put money on it Brock? Here's a hint. Call Greg Hale and ask him. Tell us what you find out tomorrow.

Dude u started the thread. Answer the question. Don't give me homework.
Answer the fn question and provide the data.

Again u have stirred the hornets nest with no proof. Nice work.

[Brock1]

Originally Posted by chuck

Are you willing to put money on it Brock? Here's a hint. Call Greg Hale and ask him. Tell us what you find out tomorrow.

Right u won't tell us

I should call someone. Greg someone.

Really ....

Unreal

[Brock1]

Nice provide last years data

And sorry I was golfing and checking trail cams where residents have no tags.

But I won't tell u which biologist or which zone the outfitter has all the tags that my cams are in.

If u want to know call John from aba. Ask him. He will tell ya.

FML

I can't believe I continue to click here..

I need meds

[GFY]

Originally Posted by Brock1

Nice provide last years data

And sorry I was golfing and checking trail cams where residents have no tags.

But I won't tell u which biologist or which zone the outfitter has all the tags that my cams are in.

If u want to know call John from aba. Ask him. He will tell ya.

FML

I can't believe I continue to click here..

I need meds

No half the people on this forum need meds. I have bit my lip almost every time I check in to see what is new. People should do less whining about a few tags and start asking esrd about the missmanagment of herds for the last 15 years. Remember when you never seen outfitters and landowner tags did not effect you? That is because we had multiple times more wildlife. Maybe we should be complaining about the multiple times to many tags for almost all zones and knee jerk reactions after mismanagement just like suffield elk hunt.

Chuck you should get all facts before stirring the pot like this. There is more variables to determine all tag numbers. When was the last time these zones were actually counted? If it is like most of the province probably 10 years. So not knowing they give out almost no tags. Landowner tags take away tags away from residents. Maybe you should get off your computer and actually do something about it. The biggest problem chuck is that it takes a lot of your time and it might not work in your favor. On a side note that is why we have a forum so people can just come an bitch about every thing that does not suite there personal requirements.

[JD848]

Bunch of fricken morons,alberta won't miss some of you if you pack up and split ,the same yip yappy pr///ks day in day out.
No one is going to cry if Chuck doesn't get a tag,if he is given a small game tag that's all he needs,ten hard years of grouse hunting with your hand loads of barnes triple grap.
You should take your triple shocks tarzan and find the jungle boy jiy and head for Africa.
I was on his side but the their is something that stink's in Denmark on this one and some ones true colors are starting to shine..

I have never in my whole life seen more rude a//s/ h//les as AO outdoors,yet their are thousands of good people on this site but always the same dozen or two trying to stir in up crap and being rude to others.

If you think your some type of true out doors men because you know everything about everything well you forgot the most important rule and that is self respect and this is something that is earned not given.

And for some ever time they open their pie hole they assassinate their true character with there own rude ways and if you think I am a minority on this topic you need a good enema kit and good dose of oxygen .

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by GFY

No half the people on this forum need meds. I have bit my lip almost every time I check in to see what is new. People should do less whining about a few tags and start asking esrd about the missmanagment of herds for the last 15 years. Remember when you never seen outfitters and landowner tags did not effect you? That is because we had multiple times more wildlife. Maybe we should be complaining about the multiple times to many tags for almost all zones and knee jerk reactions after mismanagement just like suffield elk hunt.

Chuck you should get all facts before stirring the pot like this. There is more variables to determine all tag numbers. When was the last time these zones were actually counted? If it is like most of the province probably 10 years. So not knowing they give out almost no tags. Landowner tags take away tags away from residents. Maybe you should get off your computer and actually do something about it. The biggest problem chuck is that it takes a lot of your time and it might not work in your favor. On a side note that is why we have a forum so people can just come an bitch about every thing that does not suite there personal requirements.

Which facts don't I have straight exactly?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by chuck

Which facts don't I have straight exactly?

As usual, if you check the post times...the "experts" show up after midnight...lol!!!!

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Brock1

And sorry I was golfing and checking trail cams where residents have no tags.

You ought to put them somewhere else. Or that explains a lot.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by JD 848

Bunch of fricken morons,alberta won't miss some of you if you pack up and split ,the same yip yappy pr///ks day in day out.
No one is going to cry if Chuck doesn't get a tag,if he is given a small game tag that's all he needs,ten hard years of grouse hunting with your hand loads of barnes triple grap.
You should take your triple shocks tarzan and find the jungle boy jiy and head for Africa.
I was on his side but the their is something that stink's in Denmark on this one and some ones true colors are starting to shine..

I have never in my whole life seen more rude a//s/ h//les as AO outdoors,yet their are thousands of good people on this site but always the same dozen or two trying to stir in up crap and being rude to others.

If you think your some type of true out doors men because you know everything about everything well you forgot the most important rule and that is self respect and this is something that is earned not given.

And for some ever time they open their pie hole they assassinate their true character with there own rude ways and if you think I am a minority on this topic you need a good enema kit and good dose of oxygen .

Wow. That was interesting.

[bdub]

Originally Posted by JD 848

Bunch of fricken morons,alberta won't miss some of you Guide/Outfitters if you pack up and split ,the same yip yappy pr///ks day in day out.
No one is going to cry if the Outfitters doesn't get a tag,if he is given a small game tag that's all they need,ten hard years of grouse hunting with your hand loads of barnes triple grap.
You should take your triple shocks tarzan and find the jungle boy jiy and head for Africa.
I was on the Guide/Outfitters side but the their is something that stink's in Denmark on this one and some ones true colors are starting to shine..

I have never in my whole life seen more rude a//s/ h//les as AO outdoors,yet their are thousands of good people on this site but always the same dozen or two trying to stir in up crap and being rude to others.

If you think Guide/Outfitters are some type of true out doors men because you know everything about everything well you forgot the most important rule and that is self respect and this is something that is earned not given.

And for some ever time they open their pie hole they assassinate their true character with there own rude ways and if you think I am a minority on this topic you need a good enema kit and good dose of oxygen .

haha fixed it for you. Good thread Chuck.

[Raptor]

" The allotted quota is based on a province wide total, not by WMU".
If this is the case, then individual draws should be done the same way. Leave it wide open to hunt wherever you desire. That's crazy.

[norwestalta]

I don't have much to say on this because I don't fully understand the situation but I will say that the outfitter that toque diesel was referencing to brings a fair bit of revenue to our community.

[Raptor]

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by JD 848

I have never in my whole life seen more rude a//s/ h//les as AO outdoors,yet their are thousands of good people on this site but always the same dozen or two trying to stir in up crap and being rude to others.

If you think your some type of true out doors men because you know everything about everything well you forgot the most important rule and that is self respect and this is something that is earned not given.

.

Well said

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

I don't have much to say on this because I don't fully understand the situation but I will say that the outfitter that toque diesel was referencing to brings a fair bit of revenue to our community.

It's just bad apples and bent noses.

For the most part, outfitters and guides are law abiding citizens making a living. When one messes up the news spreads like wildfire through the community.

In all honesty I've never encountered a problem with a guide or outfitter in my life, I have had a few bad encounters with other hunters, but very few over the last 29yrs of having an Alberta hunting license.

It's not the outfitters in the wrong here where does the corruption start? At the top. Who is at the top? It's the government, and that's who should be held accountable.

If you think there's a problem, look into the policies set out by the government. Find out what basis they used to make the decisions you take issue with, find out the actual numbers they collect and then see if it all adds up. Hopefully that's where the problem is, because if it's with their policy itself, it'll take a lot more work to try and change things.