Sheep hunters and predators

[nube]

I had a thought the other day with predator numbers being high and sheep herds taking a beating I wondered how much would you sheep hunters pony up to help the cause.
Was wondering how you all would feel if your license cost was $200 or $500 or even a $1000 but the main portion of that went directly into predator control or even to do burns or habitat inhancement.
How many of you would sheep hunt with the license cost this high?

[NCC]

I would certainly contribute to funding for an independent, experienced biologist to study our sheep herds and determine what is really causing the decline in numbers. I strongly believe it is predators, but would like some scientific evidence to back it up.

[lead chucker]

I also would contribute to an independent experienced biologist.but not a gov't funded venture that would turn out like the grizzly study were by fudging numbers becomes common practice in order to make a career out of it.

[warriorboy10]

I’d could see that but how long would the funds go towards enhancement before the revenue went into general coffers and become another tax grab and no more enhancement?? History says?

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by warriorboy10

I’d could see that but how long would the funds go towards enhancement before the revenue went into general coffers and become another tax grab and no more enhancement?? History says?

2x....

[LKILR]

How about we all take a year off hunting sheep. It seems to me that humans are the number one predator when it comes to sheep.

[last minute]

I don't sheep hunt probably never will but I can understand why people would want to pay more everything cost so much already in the hunting world but to each their own. I would vote no if you had it on your pole

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by LKILR

How about we all take a year off hunting sheep. It seems to me that humans are the number one predator when it comes to sheep.

I hardly think that humans are the number one predator. There are more sheep taken by cats and wolves. Didn't you just post pics of a found sheep. Don't think it was a human that killed it!!!

[LKILR]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

I hardly think that humans are the number one predator. There are more sheep taken by cats and wolves. Didn't you just post pics of a found sheep. Don't think it was a human that killed it!!!

How many dead sheep did you find this year? And how many sheep do you know of that we’re killed by hunters? The numbers are the facts.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by nube

I had a thought the other day with predator numbers being high and sheep herds taking a beating I wondered how much would you sheep hunters pony up to help the cause.
Was wondering how you all would feel if your license cost was $200 or $500 or even a $1000 but the main portion of that went directly into predator control or even to do burns or habitat inhancement.
How many of you would sheep hunt with the license cost this high?

Totally irrelevant question because the GOA has stated many times that they will never increase license costs as you are suggesting, for any reason. Gotta keep it fair for everyone.

Here's a question for all of you (this includes you nube) complaining about predators eating all the sheep, how many of you are members of Wild Sheep Foundation Alberta? Are you familiar with any of their programs?

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by LKILR

How many dead sheep did you find this year? And how many sheep do you know of that we’re killed by hunters? The numbers are the facts.

Ask yourself this. When you deboned an animal in the forest have you gone back the next week to try and find the bones. Only a fool would think that predators don't kill and big portion of animals.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by lead chucker

I also would contribute to an independent experienced biologist.but not a gov't funded venture that would turn out like the grizzly study were by fudging numbers becomes common practice in order to make a career out of it.

Totally agree with this statement.

To the original post, I was one who voted on paying $1000. I have only hunted sheep twice in my 24 years of hunting but if I knew the $1000 was going into actually trying to put some control on predator populations (that includes grizzlies) I'd have no problem shelling that kind of cash. Can see that being a hard sell though.

[BackPackHunter]

Originally Posted by LKILR

How about we all take a year off hunting sheep. It seems to me that humans are the number one predator when it comes to sheep.

It’s ok, a lot of people are very bad at math
Doesn’t mean your a bad person


I don’t want to pay the government anymore then I have to.
I’d rather see sheep hunters get together and shoot every predator with out the government involved.
I can’t even get behind the WSF anymore , I Question a lot of where that money is going,

When I’m in sheep country I kill any sheep eater on site except for G bears
If I seen a bear activity hunting sheep, I’d probably kill it too,

1 year I tracked a cougar for miles before he found a wind blown spot on the mtn to hind his tracks, and lost me, I planned to put an accubond in his dome.

[mntmanpick]

No need to increase fees just use all the money from the ministers tags isn't that what its for. You can hunt wolves all around for free and few hunters take cats where the sheep are. Hunters need to realize we are the only predators specializing on male sheep so if the majority are not prepared to hunt mature sheep 8+ years don't expect the quality and quantity of rams to change without changes in regulations.

[CNP]

Another forgone conclusion survey that proposes hunters "want" to pay more, a lot more, for tags based on an "opinion".

I'd wager that most hunters would vote for a zero increase in tags let alone $100 to $1,000 increase. Of course there would be the flip side of the coin where wealthy hunters could reduce the number apex predators by pricing them out of the hunt.

Good luck on proposing a government-initiated cougar cull.

Management Plan for Cougars in Alberta

3.3.5 Managing Cougar-Prey Relationships

Cougar management will include provisions to allow reduction of localized populations to protect declining or threatened ungulate populations. Where cougar predation is known or suspected to be a primary or significant contributor to declines in a threatened or isolated ungulate population (e.g. woodland caribou, bighorn sheep, and mountain goats), the department will consider establishing a sink zone in the corresponding CMA, utilizing a combination of fall and winter seasons to achieve harvest goals. Government-initiated culls will not be initiated for cougars, except in extreme cases in order to prevent the extirpation of an ungulate population, and where hunting alone is not effective. Where possible, management of this nature will be focused on individual cougars that are known predators of the affected ungulate species, typically determined through radio collars placed either on cougars, or on a sample of ungulates.
3

[walking buffalo]

Where are our sheep being reduced by predators? Is this really a problem?
Cadomin? sure, but that is a zoo anyways.

Population surveys in general show sheep are doing great, never better....
Are these surveys wrong?

I'd rather implement proper ewe management initiatives like we had back in the '80s. No need to increase fees to do this.

Habitat? Maybe today's sheep hunters just need to get off the Fit craze.
Hike and smoke like the old-timers did.

[nube]

WB Yes I think sheep numbers in some areas are having issues. I know K counrty where I killed mine last week they all seem fine in that area. Lots of food and parks and not one wolf track seen or cougar track. Ewes have lambs and all seems well.
Other areas not so much.
I am on your side when it comes to habitat because that is the other part of the equation that needs to be addressed as much as Predators.
My pole isn't presented like I would like now that I look at it but I know if I knew for sure money could get in the right hands and be used as we wanted I think we could really benefit the sheep and enhance a lot of things to protect our sheep.
After seeing what has gone on in Cadomin i'm digusted at how we have protected them.
From the Rumour mill not one sheep shot in the first part of that Nov season and I have only heard of 1 for the second half and not many rams around. I am not sure what the answer is but it would be nice to feel like we are doing our best to save what we got and grow things.

[leeelmer]

My Problem with giving the Government more money is they will waste it.
$1000000.00 per year would not be enough, they would waste it just talking about doing something about it.
The thing I thought about that would cost the gov 0 dollars is if you bring in a wolf to fish and wildlife, you should get 1 priority point added to your draw.
Then there is a incentive for us the hunter to go and get them, and in some way that the money we spend on hunting wolves would go to something.
No gov money, no gov program to cost tax payers millions and do very little.
Also give the trappers a $250 bounty per wolf, this would make some if not all trappers work harder to kill wolves.
I would shoot every wolf I see during sheep season for this reason.
I do anyway(every time I am out hunting and see a wolf it becomes a wolf hunt) even if I am on a ram.
Dead wolf means a sheep gets to live longer.

[Bushrat]

It would be a different story if wolves grew trophy horns. We would want more wolves.

Cadomin is an artificial habitat. Reminds me of a place in BC, California bighorns there, when they turned the river benches into alfalfa fields and started irrigating the sheep increased dramatically, you would see groups of 20, 30, 50 or more scattered all over these fields along the highway. Predators didn't increase much, always a few cougars, no wolves. They hit a plateau in population and then crashed from lungworm and are back to their historic low density numbers despite the rich feed and lack of many predators in this altered habitat. Wouldn't surprise me if something else in combination with predation is happening at Cadomin. Artificial over densities of sheep never seem to end well.

Everyone seems to think we can balance wildlife populations or that they should be balanced and follow a prescribed constant ratio of predator to prey. That is not the natural way. The only balance in nature is that it's perpetually unbalanced.

[woods_walker]

In cadomin, haven't the sheep been hanging out in areas well away from the rocks? Seems to be quite a few on the far East side of the mine and over towards Mary Greg lake. True you don't see the number of big rams though but a couple years ago many were staying in areas out of sight. I've also watched the wolf packs chasing around sheep in the grassy hills but no where near where you could shoot them.

[heretohunt]

Originally Posted by warriorboy10

I’d could see that but how long would the funds go towards enhancement before the revenue went into general coffers and become another tax grab and no more enhancement?? History says?

This^^

[heretohunt]

Maybe an incentive to shoot preadators while out sheep hunting. Maybe a reduced price (maybe $15) cougar tag available with any sheep licence. Even if it is only good for the 400 zones. I watched a cougar try to jack a band of ewes and lambs this fall. Not his first attempt I’d bet. He was only foiled by the swirling wind.

[nube]

Originally Posted by heretohunt

Maybe an incentive to shoot preadators while out sheep hunting. Maybe a reduced price (maybe $15) cougar tag available with any sheep licence. Even if it is only good for the 400 zones. I watched a cougar try to jack a band of ewes and lambs this fall. Not his first attempt I’d bet. He was only foiled by the swirling wind.

Wouldn't do a thing!
I've sheep hunted and been in the mountains more than most and have only run across wolves a handful of times. You know how many I killed? 0 !!!!
And it wasn't from lack of trying.
Only way to drop numbers of predators to actually do anything is poison, heli hunting and trappers. Hunters play almost a nothing role in the mountains for predators.
Cougar hunters don't get into sheep habitat most times!
Killing 1 or 2 wolves out of a pack does nothing to stop a packs killing power!
Those are the facts.

[cowboyhunter]

Wow Nube, if you killed your ram on Mt. Allen I am amazed you didn't see wolf tracks. We were north of that and all we saw was wolf tracks. Have a video with them howling last Monday at 10:30 am. Didn't see any elk but did see what some would say was lots of sheep. Quite a few deer tracks down low but wolf tracks on every trail or side hill we glassed.

[nube]

Wow! surprised to hear that. I wonder if part of it was that it was so dang windy that the wolf tracks got snowed in fast?
Those mountains seem pretty rugged and just wonder if it is tougher for wolves in there to get the sheep. Also noticed there are lots of deer so they may feed mostly on the deer.
We did see some legal elk but not where we hunted.

[cowboyhunter]

The only elk we saw were in the Boundry Ranch yard going by one evening. Did not cut a track in the power line area or anywhere in those basins. Saw a couple Cranker Rams , but not in your huntable area. Congrats on yours !

[nube]

The elk at boundary was a 5x5 bull. They shot a bunch of cows in front of the ranch tho.... I was told there hasn't been a legal bull around the ranch for a few years. Seems like numbers are way down so you might be right on the wolf numbers but they must be down low I guess and leave the sheep alone.

[cowboyhunter]

It is amazing that our wildlife managers issue 60 bull tags in that zone. I am not sure that there is 60 elk left in that zone! We did see about 120 sheep and lots of deer tracks . One Linx track and two cougar tracks before the big rain of last Thursday! We definitely needed two feet of snow and -20 but it was nicer traveling around .

[heretohunt]

Originally Posted by nube

Wouldn't do a thing!
I've sheep hunted and been in the mountains more than most and have only run across wolves a handful of times. You know how many I killed? 0 !!!!
And it wasn't from lack of trying.
Only way to drop numbers of predators to actually do anything is poison, heli hunting and trappers. Hunters play almost a nothing role in the mountains for predators.
Cougar hunters don't get into sheep habitat most times!
Killing 1 or 2 wolves out of a pack does nothing to stop a packs killing power!
Those are the facts.

Defiantly would have killed one cat that was focused on sheep. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one that sees preadators when glassing sheep. I also have video of a wolverine in pursuit of sheep. They must catch them sometimes. I’d be happy to get sidetracked to kill one of them.
How much revenue do you expect to receive from this increase in tag costs? After a bit of beauracracy what are you planning to get done with the rest of the money?

[bigbaddad]

Originally Posted by LKILR

How about we all take a year off hunting sheep. It seems to me that humans are the number one predator when it comes to sheep.

Now... That's funny right there... Where r to start


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