A year too late?

[JohninAB]

Color picture is from July 22, 2016. A typical mainframe 5x5. Enlarged picture from a Stealth Cam 6 MP camera.

Black and white picture is from July 30, 2017. A typical mainframe 4x4. Picture is enlarged from a Bushnell Low Glow 20 MP camera. Wish I had a color picture.

Am fairly certain the same deer in both pictures based on coloration on the face and similarities in the brow tines.

Did I get greedy and wait one year too long before targeting this deer?

[IMG][/IMG]

[Lefty-Canuck]

He might be going over the hill past prime. So many things play into what they grow up top, the crops around his roaming ground may have changed slightly this year...5x5 don't always stay that way.

LC

[Full Curl Earl]

Was it really dry this year in the area? If so, maybe next year is the year.

[husky7mm]

I would say he is the same deer, and has gone backwards. Have the same problem with a giant non typical this year. It another wet lush summer here in the peace but the april snow storms really put the antler growth behind this year. The deer were bone racks in may.
Btw did you really give that back a pass last year?

[3blade]

Here's what I'm seeing: last year, he was a 4.5 or 5.5 year old. My guess would be 5.5. This is the year that goes one way or the other. Either he goes once in a lifetime big, (now 5.5 years old) or last year was his max (now 6.5). Remember, most whitetails will only ever be 4x4 and our winters limit the maximum age a deer can get to. This isn't Iowa. So good conditions at the right age can get you a 5x5 but you gotta take it while it's there.

I think you did wait too long. Trail cam pics can sometimes be misleading, but he looks like he was in better condition body wise last year. Could be over the hill, could be local conditions this year, but pretty unlikely he's ever going to get back to last years size.

If I was to hazard a guess, you thought the rest of his tines were a little short and hoped they might catch up to his brows in a year?

[The moose]

I actually think he is a 5x4 this year. His left antler has some darker coloration at 5th point. I would say he is a older deer and likely beginning to regress. He does not habe a sway back or body deteriating much though. Over all im finding antlers are down this year. fairly certain in my area growth is well behind.

[beaver hunter]

The question is, did you have a chance at him last year? That thing is a tank with mass for days in my opinion.

[JohninAB]

No I did not hunt him last year nor the area he calls home.

I think last year was a lot drier year as I was in the area way earlier than this year due to snow. I was in there early April last year, this year it was May before I could get in there.

This spot is on public forest land.

And no, I will not divulge the location.

[muzzy]

Id say same deer and still a nice 4x4 that would be a trophy espicially with bow. We have had two mild winters in a row in the area of that deer plus lots of unharvested crops to carry them over this past winter so based on that Id say he is getting a bit long in tooth and goming down hill. The thing that makes it a bit hard to tell though is the colored pic that buck has a bigger hanging gut and stockier and so looks the older of the two deer as this years black and white looks a bit sleeker in body contour. Perhaps you have a picture of a younger half brother to the color pictured buck. I know at the house here I have pics of three different age classes of bucks with remarkable similarities to racks and facial features which leads me to believe they are related even though 3 years apart. Good luck on your hunt John
Gord

[beaver hunter]

The water level this year could totally change things, I have a couple buddies that have their old haunts lookin like a pond now.

[Bub]

Looks to me like those two are different animals, related or not. The rack looks different enough to assume the deer are different. The one from a year before also looks older to me, but you can never know for sure with night photos.

[Bushrat]

Body looks a little thinner this year. Aside from a couple points missing I don't think the main frame or mass is any smaller. I think the first picture makes the deer appear bigger as it was closer to the camera when the pic was taken. Much like trophy pics taken when the camera is in the deers face and the guy sitting behind the deer makes it look much larger than it is and the person look smaller. Either way it is a great deer and a couple tines less doesn't diminish the deer in my eyes at all.

[dj240]

You would have to tell me where he is so I could judge your question in person.
If i had the opportunity in both years i would have gladly taken him.

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Body looks a little thinner this year. Aside from a couple points missing I don't think the main frame or mass is any smaller. I think the first picture makes the deer appear bigger as it was closer to the camera when the pic was taken. Much like trophy pics taken when the camera is in the deers face and the guy sitting behind the deer makes it look much larger than it is and the person look smaller. Either way it is a great deer and a couple tines less doesn't diminish the deer in my eyes at all.

Actually they are about the same distance from the camera. Almost the same spot in fact. Just I was able to blow the first one up more than the second one.

But do agree some of the staged picture scan be very deceiving.

[Slicktricker]

Same deer brow tines give it away same with the pattern on his nose. I'd pass on him till November 20th then I'd fill freezer lol

[JoshT]

I would agree same deer, still has some great mass just one less tine so must getting up in age. Definitely not as much body mass this year versus last year.

[bonedogg]

Same deer, beauty buck. Brow tines tell the tale .

[Big Lou]

I'm in the camp of same deer as well.

[hookset]

Looks like the same deer to me. Put an arrow/bullet in him before the winter/coyotes take him!

[Bub]

I definitely don't have as much experience as many of you guys/gals on here do; I only have a few years behind my belt. However, those deer look different to me. The more I look at them, the more I am convinced the first one is older. But like I said, night photos are often very deceiving.

They are both nice specimen, no doubt. I would probably do what Slicktricker suggested with the one on the second photo. And I would probably have to think hard whether to take or leave the first one on sight though.

John, do you mind posting the first photo without blowing it up. Just for the heck of it, really.

[kw12]

Must be nice to pass on deer like that LOL i wouldnt think twice about putting an arrow in him.

[JohninAB]

Here is an edited but not blown up picture.



Bushrat you may be right as I believe this guy is about 6 feet closer to the camera than the other one.

This 4x4 was his running mate last year but so far this year I have not gotten any pictures of him.

[EagleEyes]

Same deer i'd say looks like he might be a little heavier now. If he's not what your looking for give him another year I've seen lots of bucks peak around 7 or 8 even depending on the year.

[beaver hunter]

Good gawd, those two coming in together I'd prob faint...

[brendan's dad]

Different deer. There are some things on a deer that won't change. Eye spread and center of the base will not change. A quick measurement of inside of eye to inside of eye and center of base to center bases (divide for ratio) and they are significantly different.

Deer #1 eyes 20 mm spread and base centers 25 mm spread

Deer # 2 eyes 13 mm spread and base centers 12 mm spread

You can see that the ratios are not close enough to bother factoring in errors in measurements

Different deer.

[The moose]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Different deer. There are some things on a deer that won't change. Eye spread and center of the base will not change. A quick measurement of inside of eye to inside of eye and center of base to center bases (divide for ratio) and they are significantly different.

Deer #1 eyes 20 mm spread and base centers 25 mm spread

Deer # 2 eyes 13 mm spread and base centers 12 mm spread

You can see that the ratios are not close enough to bother factoring in errors in measurements

Different deer.

I dont see how your calculations compute. Where are you getting your defined scale from?? there is zero indication of distance from camera and even 6" could yield very large differences when measure in mm.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by The moose

I dont see how your calculations compute. Where are you getting your defined scale from?? there is zero indication of distance from camera and even 6" could yield very large differences when measure in mm.

You don't need a defined scale or distance from the camera. That is why the ratio is develop using 2 measurement on the same deer that will not change. Once the deer reaches the age of maturity (approx. 4 years of age), the skull is no longer growing in size, which means eye spread and center of bases has become a constant.

[Gbuss]

They are two different deer. Gen's are the same but the 5x5 is older by 2 years. I would hunt that area this november and see what it turns up

[makemeasammich]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

You don't need a defined scale or distance from the camera. That is why the ratio is develop using 2 measurement on the same deer that will not change. Once the deer reaches the age of maturity (approx. 4 years of age), the skull is no longer growing in size, which means eye spread and center of bases has become a constant.

What the heck are you talking about?

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by makemeasammich

What the heck are you talking about?

I do not know how to make it more simple so I will make it more complicated

Lets make the center of the bases for both deer as value "A"

Deer 1's eye spread value then is " A minus 5"
Deer 2's eye spread value then is "A plus 1"

There is no possible way this is the same deer. Regardless of the size of the each photo, if the deer in the photos were the same, then the relative values of the measurements would have to be the same. The smaller the increment of measurement (mm vs inches) the more accurate your ratio will be. But I could have measured it in inches and came up with the same results.

I am not even saying which deer is bigger because without a known value in the photo, there is no way to determine actual size. Same reason a cop put a dollar bill next to a suspect's foot print.