Straight shooter ain't so straight

[Vingiu]

Screwing around with different scope bases and rings recently, and I stumbled upon this problem. Maybe not a problem, as the rifle has always performed fine for me, except for one rear mounting screw that came loose one time and gave me a wobbly scope. A straight edge across the action reveals a sizeable dip between front and rear.

But now I'm all up in my head about putting undue stress on my new piece of Zeiss glass with an action that has a big whoop in it. I have a set of Talley lightweight 1-piece rings on the way, now I'm not sure how to proceed.

Don't have my feeler gauges with me, but I am going to hazard a guess and say the worst of it (at the two centre-most holes) is approaching, but not exceeding 0.5mm/0.020".

I can't find any similar problems reported on other forums, am I being a little too paranoid? Thoughts?

[Artist]

Yea, that would concern me too.
I'd say that's a case that calls for lapping the rings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTIY9cZlpPs

[Vingiu]

Originally Posted by Artist

Yea, that would concern me too.
I'd say that's a case that calls for lapping the rings.

That doesn't sound so bad. I've always wanted an excuse to buy myself one of those scope mounting kits with the proper lapping bars

[sarahfaye]

Burris signature rings are a great solution .

[fps plus]

Put rings with inserts won’t help with the stress on the action with one piece base .
3 solutions:
1 put bedding compound between base and receiver and only put screws in lightly while epoxy cures .

2 put Prussian blue on receiver and actually file the high spots on receiver until base fits

3 use 2 piece base and Burris rings with inserts

[elkhunter11]

Does that change at all when you loosen the action screws? Being a round bar, it should have been machined truer than that, so I am wondering if the action is flexing, or if it has been torqued somehow. I would definitely bed the action to prevent the action from being torqued as the action screws are tightened. Once that is taken care of, I would probably go with two piece bases with inserts.

[3blade]

You are right, don’t install a scope with that. It will flex. Elk is right also. Pull the action and check it outside the stock, just to be sure, then reinstall it with proper torque and check again.

Bed the action to the stock, and then get 1 piece pic rail and bed the rail permanently to the action. There are plenty of tutorials on how to do it. One of the very few times I’d recommend a rail on a hunting rifle. FPS called it a one piece base in his post. Same same.

I don’t like rings with inserts. If you’re gonna fix it, do it right.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Does that change at all when you loosen the action screws? Being a round bar, it should have been machined truer than that, so I am wondering if the action is flexing, or if it has been torqued somehow. I would definitely bed the action to prevent the action from being torqued as the action screws are tightened. Once that is taken care of, I would probably go with two piece bases with inserts.

Not much metal in the middle of a savage action, deformation is definitely a possibility.

[Dmay]

I would get two studs to replace the screws which hold base to action. Set base on, tighten rings to base and scope. Then apply bedding compound between base and action, using release agent on the action. Install base on the studs and secure in place with rubber bands, electrical tape or something, Let dry......

[huntinstuff]

I know what I would do.......but thats just me.

It involves a 10ton press, a chunk of rubber and a 14" piece of 1/2" steel........maybe even a level....

[Dean2]

Elk11 is right, first step is to bed the action properly. Then, bedding a one piece rail to the action will work, but if I was keeping that gun long term I would take the bolt out and file the action till it was true. Depends on whether you are more comfortable with Devcon or a file, but to be honest, if i wasn't comfortable with a file I would take that to a good smith and have them fix it properly for me. If the gun was still on warranty, I wouldn't do any of those steps, I would send it back to Savage.

[huntinstuff]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Elk11 is right, first step is to bed the action properly. Then, bedding a one piece rail to the action will work, but if I was keeping that gun long term I would take the bolt out and file the action till it was true. Depends on whether you are more comfortable with Devcon or a file, but to be honest, if i wasn't comfortable with a file I would take that to a good smith and have them fix it properly for me. If the gun was still on warranty, I wouldn't do any of those steps, I would send it back to Savage.

X2

[Homesteader]

Just bed one, guys spend a lot of money to buy a 20 moa base lol

[Vingiu]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Does that change at all when you loosen the action screws? Being a round bar, it should have been machined truer than that, so I am wondering if the action is flexing, or if it has been torqued somehow. I would definitely bed the action to prevent the action from being torqued as the action screws are tightened. Once that is taken care of, I would probably go with two piece bases with inserts.

Took the action out of the stock entirely, no change in shape as far as I can see. Same ~0.018” deflection, very strange. This stock holds the action pretty snug, but I think I might try my hand at bedding as you suggested

[Vingiu]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Elk11 is right, first step is to bed the action properly. Then, bedding a one piece rail to the action will work, but if I was keeping that gun long term I would take the bolt out and file the action till it was true. Depends on whether you are more comfortable with Devcon or a file, but to be honest, if i wasn't comfortable with a file I would take that to a good smith and have them fix it properly for me. If the gun was still on warranty, I wouldn't do any of those steps, I would send it back to Savage.

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately the rifle is an old purchase, I’m probably just the latest of many owners. I think I will take a look at bedding the action, and give it a couple kisses with a file. Orrr actually, I’ve got a couple of DMT diamond stones for sharpening my woodworking tools. I bet you I could use one of those as a very effective flattening tool.

Probably end up bedding the scope base(s) anyways, but might as well give flattening a try.

[Vingiu]

Thanks for the input all! Enabling my impulse purchases lol

Gonna try flattening the action a touch with my diamond stones, then bedding the action and bases with devcon or some equivalent. This aftermarket stock holds the rifle pretty darn well, but I’m sure there’s some places that could see better contact.

Then Cabela’s happened to have the 1”/30mm lapping kit on clearance, figured I might as well give that a go too.

[pikergolf]

If it was mine, I would put the rings plus bases on the scope loosely, then find set screws of the thread that fits the rifles threads about 1/2" long, place the set screws in the rifle to act as studs. place the bases/rings on the studs and get the distance set. Tighten the rings around the scope and refit to make sure everything slides over the studs. Then rough up the bases and wax up the rifle and the studs, maybe even put a wrap of tape on the studs. With the scope still in the rings put the epoxy on the bases and push them down over the studs firmly and let set. Couple of days slide them off of the studs clean up the squeeze out on the bases. Remove the rings from scope and remount on the rifle.

Rough up the bottom of the rings and wax the rifle scope, put a thin layer of epoxy on the bottom of the rings and lay the scope in pressing it down firmly, you could even wrap it with surgical tubing to make sure it goes down evenly. Wipe of any squeeze out and let set. In a day or two clean up any squeeze out and mount the scope.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Vingiu

Took the action out of the stock entirely, no change in shape as far as I can see. Same ~0.018” deflection, very strange. This stock holds the action pretty snug, but I think I might try my hand at bedding as you suggested

Then the action is sprung, all that you can do is deal with the issue, by bedding the action, and work out a mounting solution.

[Smokinyotes]

If it were mine, being a Savage I would sell it.

[hansol]

1. Decide if you want to keep a broken rifle. That thing is machined wrong. = broken.

2. If you do want to keep it: one piece scope base epoxied to the action. That'll get you 80/20 of what you need.

[Vingiu]

Originally Posted by hansol

1. Decide if you want to keep a broken rifle. That thing is machined wrong. = broken.

2. If you do want to keep it: one piece scope base epoxied to the action. That'll get you 80/20 of what you need.

Eh, it shot very well for all its life. Not sure I'd go so far as to call it broken, it just went from daily driver status to a project car lol. I just put a new barrel on it too, might as well throw some effort at the thing to keep it functioning for another 20 years

[Vingiu]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

If it was mine, I would put the rings plus bases on the scope loosely, then find set screws of the thread that fits the rifles threads about 1/2" long, place the set screws in the rifle to act as studs. place the bases/rings on the studs and get the distance set. Tighten the rings around the scope and refit to make sure everything slides over the studs. Then rough up the bases and wax up the rifle and the studs, maybe even put a wrap of tape on the studs. With the scope still in the rings put the epoxy on the bases and push them down over the studs firmly and let set. Couple of days slide them off of the studs clean up the squeeze out on the bases. Remove the rings from scope and remount on the rifle.

Rough up the bottom of the rings and wax the rifle scope, put a thin layer of epoxy on the bottom of the rings and lay the scope in pressing it down firmly, you could even wrap it with surgical tubing to make sure it goes down evenly. Wipe of any squeeze out and let set. In a day or two clean up any squeeze out and mount the scope.

Hadn't considered bedding the scope body/ring connection before... think that would have an advantage over lapping the rings?

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Vingiu

Hadn't considered bedding the scope body/ring connection before... think that would have an advantage over lapping the rings?

I don't think it is an advantage, but you don't need special tools.

When I needed to add 20MOA to my rimfire for Shooting to 300 I didn't want to buy new rings so I figured out the math on what I needed to put in the back ring and put a small shim in the back ring and bedded it, worked out perfect.

[fps plus]

If you are mechanical and decent with a file it doesn’t take much to fit with a base with Prussian blue. If you are not comfortable epoxy a base on will work .

[Dmay]

Originally Posted by Vingiu

Hadn't considered bedding the scope body/ring connection before... think that would have an advantage over lapping the rings?

Mechanically it would likely be equal. But that much gap is a LOT of lapping on a set of rings. It is also a huge amount of filing on the action to correct. May not seem like, but once you tied into it...
Bedding ( in my opinion) is an easier and better fix, and also reversable if it didn't work for some reason.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Vingiu

Eh, it shot very well for all its life. Not sure I'd go so far as to call it broken, it just went from daily driver status to a project car lol. I just put a new barrel on it too, might as well throw some effort at the thing to keep it functioning for another 20 years

That action likely left the factory true, but was torqued at some point. If you put the straight edge on the bottom, you can verify this.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Vingiu

Eh, it shot very well for all its life. Not sure I'd go so far as to call it broken, it just went from daily driver status to a project car lol. I just put a new barrel on it too, might as well throw some effort at the thing to keep it functioning for another 20 years

The action possubly got tweaked when you installed the new barrel? It's Easy enough to do
Cat

[markg]

I see this as a money time and energy pit. Sometimes the smartest course of action is to cut your losses.

You have a Zeiss scope you want to mount on it. Whats that worth if you deform the tube and render the scope inopperable? I would harvest the barrel and simply purchase a new action and move on from there. Lets say you put in several dozens of hours trying to fix it and you cant eliminate the problem? Whats that worth to you? Whats it worth to risk your scope?

Now if you have an old less vaulable scope you can put on it after doing some work and it shoots great but I wouldnt risk going further in the hole by tinkering with something you have a high probability of failure.

Just me though my time is valuable. You may have all the time in the world and enjoy such projects. If so have at er but dont risk a nice scope in the process.

[6.5 shooter]

Another Quality product from Savage...
Put a bar in the end of the receiver and bend it straight. Maybe JB Weld and some bases with grease on them so they come off. Lay down JB weld screw down the bases till they are level, let it harden, get some longer base screws and reattach the bases. I am pretty sure your going o have bolt issues but then again Savage bolts have a great deal of slop so it may run just fine.

Or do the JB weld idea above and use a one piece rail to bridge the gap and add some extra strength to the Tupper ware action? Then grind/sand the JB till it looks like a factory job.

[Dmay]

Originally Posted by markg

I see this as a money time and energy pit..

I think this may be an over-reaction.
It is my bet that there are many Savage actions out there in the same shape, just have never been scrutinized as closely as OP did.