Canadian parliament honours Nazi with standing ovation

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

But at the end of the battle between the actual separatists and the Nazi unit, there were so many bodies dead in the river from both sides that neither side needed the bridge any more.

That is absolutely horrific.

[jbrow397]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Don’t worry, PP will save us.

He clapped like every other excited seal that day.

It's baffling that the sentence "fought against the Russians in WW2" didn't glue even the oldest conservatives to their seat - a group of people you would think hold history and the lessons learned, in high regard.

[sns2]

It’s all immaterial at this point because there is a distinct possibility that SNC Lavalin will procure lucrative contracts the will keep Quebecers swimming in great jobs. #MadeInCanadaSolutionTrudeauStyle

[kingrat]

Originally Posted by ghfalls

I thinks it over 9 billion right now.


QUOTE=prinny53;4663204]1000 x 1000. We have sent about a billion too much already.......

[/QUOTE]

9.5 billion to be almost exact. Meanwhile people are starving in canada. Wow.

[Swede]

A little history lesson.

https://www.civilianintelligencenetw...-nazi-history/

[urban rednek]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

The Freedom Fighters I speak of where NOT wearing Nazi Uniforms or Soviet Uniforms.

The group that I speak of was separate from the locals who fought FOR the Nazis.

The group that I speak of did not commit the atrocities of the Waffin SS that you are thinking of.

The reason I know of this separate group was that my father's village was near the bridge where this separatist independent group fought the Nazi unit, even though the Nazi unit were local people.

My father told the story that he was not allowed to join as he was small and was too young. But at the end of the battle between the actual separatists and the Nazi unit, there were so many bodies dead in the river from both sides that neither side needed the bridge any more.

Drewski

That story does not fit within the official Russian narrative, so it will not be accepted by their local cheering section.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the Ukrainians that sided with the Germans against the Russians during WWII? While there is no doubt some/many embraced the Nazi ideology, how many were operating under the old adage of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"? After decades of oppression and genocide committed by Stain's USSR, maybe they were willing to make a deal with the devil in hopes that it would lead to a better future than they envisioned under Stalin's rule.

Judging them all with modern optics without acknowledging the brutal reality they were facing at the time is disingenuous.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Phil McCracken

So the House Speaker "apologized", and further added the following to his statement:

"Rota added in his statement that no one, including fellow parliamentarians or the Ukrainian delegation, was aware of his plans or remarks beforehand."

I call BS on that!

Our spineless so called PM should have apologized, not the Speaker who will most likely be thrown under the bus soon.

This government is so pathetic. It is embarrassing really.

All they have done the past many years is "apologize" for their dumb "mistakes", and yet, here we are.

Their supporters/voters are truly stupid.

Rant over...

It’s so easy to say sorry after the fact cuz there is no accountability in our society.

Just take a look around.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ariu]

So, is Russia going to denazify Canada now?

[glen moa]

Let me be the first one to welcome our new Russian overlords.
Now to watch inglorious basterds.

[prinny53]

9.5 billion to be almost exact. Meanwhile people are starving in canada. Wow.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, we have given 9.5 billion too much already.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by jbrow397

He clapped like every other excited seal that day.

It's baffling that the sentence "fought against the Russians in WW2" didn't glue even the oldest conservatives to their seat - a group of people you would think hold history and the lessons learned, in high regard.

Yes, all of them did. Without any thought whatsoever. The whole lot of them should resign.

[Supergrit]

Lots of volunteers joined the German army Stalin was brutal with his people and especially the Ukrainians many thought Germany would be better for them. Kind of damned if you damned if you don’t. Can’t blame the guy for siding with Germany probably didn’t know the truth of what Germany did tell after but he knew what Stalin did to his People.
In fact if Germany was more respectful to the people they conquered in Russia they would have not much trouble taking over Russia

[Supergrit]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

Lots of volunteers joined the German army Stalin was brutal with his people and especially the Ukrainians many thought Germany would be better for them. Kind of damned if you damned if you don’t. Can’t blame the guy for siding with Germany probably didn’t know the truth of what Germany did tell after but he knew what Stalin did to his People.
In fact if Germany was more respectful to the people they conquered in Russia they would have not much trouble taking over Russia

Will have to admit that wouldn’t go out of my way as a country to honour a nazis soldier in House of Commons.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by Ariu

So, is Russia going to denazify Canada now?

They can start with the Turd. I’m all for it!

[jbrow397]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

Lots of volunteers joined the German army Stalin was brutal with his people and especially the Ukrainians many thought Germany would be better for them. Kind of damned if you damned if you don’t. Can’t blame the guy for siding with Germany probably didn’t know the truth of what Germany did tell after but he knew what Stalin did to his People.
In fact if Germany was more respectful to the people they conquered in Russia they would have not much trouble taking over Russia

That can be true, but also we don’t need to celibate the man. Japan is our ally now but we don’t give Iwo Jima soldiers standing ovations.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by KGB

They can start with the Turd. I’m all for it!

Not funny to think Russia would attack Canada or any Canadian.

If Russia attacked Canada they would be in a whirlwind of hurt.

We would decimate their forces and knock them back to the dark ages.

Canadians are no one to mess with thanks to our great past armed forces and current armed forces.

[AxeMan]

Please don't start with the ridiculous derail above.

I think the question of the evening is: When will Rota resign? Every second that ticks by is a further embarrassment to Canada.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Not funny to think Russia would attack Canada or any Canadian.

If Russia attacked Canada they would be in a whirlwind of hurt.

We would decimate their forces and knock them back to the dark ages.

Canadians are no one to mess with thanks to our great past armed forces and current armed forces.

The only reason that countries like Russia wouldn't dare attack Canada, is because they would have to fight the USA. Canada is certainly not a military threat to Russia in the 21st century.

Honoring the nazi was a total embarrassment for our country, but I doubt that any liberal will lose their job because of this.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The only reason that countries like Russia wouldn't dare attack Canada, is because they would have to fight the USA. Canada is certainly not a military threat to Russia in the 21st century.

.

lol. No kidding. If it wasn't for the US we may be speaking a different language right now.
Too many natural resources to not be conquered. Lucky for us 'Merica will need them some day and will protect what they need

[Gramps.257]

My poor Grandfather would be rolling in his grave.

[Grizzly Adams1]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

Lots of volunteers joined the German army Stalin was brutal with his people and especially the Ukrainians many thought Germany would be better for them. Kind of damned if you damned if you don’t. Can’t blame the guy for siding with Germany probably didn’t know the truth of what Germany did tell after but he knew what Stalin did to his People.
In fact if Germany was more respectful to the people they conquered in Russia they would have not much trouble taking over Russia

They say the victor writes history and distortion is part of that. My dad was a minority Sudeten German in an artificially created country, Czechoslovakia. Three minorities, Czechs, Slovaks and Germans each hating the other two vehemently, much like the Balkans of today. Hitler came as a liberator and he was an enthusiastic Nazi. Tough to be judgmental from our comfortable seats, I certainly am not.

The Ukrainians initially welcomed the Germans because they believed they had to be better than Stalin's oppression, but that soon changed.

Grizz

[jstubbs]

There are just no words to describe this level of humiliation tbh.

[gman1978]

Are the liberals really that oblivious to reality?? Looking for an opportunity to virtue signal to the world that backfired??? Or was this a tactic by design? It’s unfathomable in this day and age how this could have happened. Could you imagine if a right wing government did this!! Oh my!!

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by urban rednek

That story does not fit within the official Russian narrative, so it will not be accepted by their local cheering section.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the Ukrainians that sided with the Germans against the Russians during WWII? While there is no doubt some/many embraced the Nazi ideology, how many were operating under the old adage of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"? After decades of oppression and genocide committed by Stain's USSR, maybe they were willing to make a deal with the devil in hopes that it would lead to a better future than they envisioned under Stalin's rule.

Judging them all with modern optics without acknowledging the brutal reality they were facing at the time is disingenuous.

On the flip side, especially with modern optics and clearly recorded facts about what happened, they should recognize it and accept it. Maybe even apologize to those that were affected. Instead, however, monuments are being built and history rewritten, minimizing, dismissing, or often even justifying what had occurred. What you wrote above is exactly that - justification. From the same paper as cited in my previous post:

Former President Yushchenko, nationalist parties, and many Ukrainian historians attempted to recast the OUN-B and the UPA as parts of a popular national liberation movement that fought against Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and to present the OUN-B and UPA leaders as national heroes. They denied, minimized or justified the involvement of the OUN-B and the UPA leaders and members in the mass murder of Jews, Poles, and Ukrainians.

From another paper (https://jps.library.utoronto.ca/inde.../40007/30560):

Nationalist groups such as the OUN, the UPA, and individuals such as Stepan Bandera have often been cited as heroes in modern day Ukraine. Such groups were paramilitary organizations which took anti-Soviet, anti-Polish, and at times anti-German actions. Monuments to such figures have been erected in Lviv and in places among the diaspora as well. These monuments ignore the fact that these actors are guilty of vicious atrocities themselves. The UPA conducted ethnic cleansing against Polish civilians, killing almost 100,000 people between 1943 to 1944. The OUN, of which Bandera was one of the leaders, collaborated with the Nazis after Operation Barbarossa, and assisted in the killing of 800,000
Jews. Furthermore, the Nazi occupation saw thousands of Ukrainians joining the ranks of the SS (a thoroughly voluntary organization). Given the degree to which German officials relied on local collaboration in areas outside of Germany it is unlikely that the Nazis would have been so successful in their killing operations without such assistance. However, since its independence, Ukrainian culture and academia has shown little acknowledgment of these facts. The Ukrainian state itself has also participated in whitewashing or “heroization” of mass murderers: Two months before visiting the Knesset in an attempt to convince the Israeli parliament to recognize the Holodomor as a genocide, President Yushchenko himself posthumously awarded the Gold Star Medal of the Hero of Ukraine to UPA commander-in-chief Roman Shukhevych.

The Yushchenko administration saw not only the downplaying of the role of Ukrainians in such the atrocities, but it also perpetrated misinformation about the Baby Yar massacre to better fit with a Ukrainian historical narrative.

And so on. Note where the author (and he is, believe me, not the only one) makes an assertion that the “cooperation” was so deep that the nazis wouldn’t be able to commit so many murders “cleansing”. “At times anti-German actions” should be suggestive as well. Also note that both papers I cited were written by Canadian professors of Ukrainian origin. That would be as far as the fitment with the Russian narrative goes. Here is a non-academic article, but an address by a Ukrainian politician to the Organization for Security and Co-Operation in Europe in 2009, right from their site: History falsification and nationalism propaganda as the elements of state policy in Ukraine.

And for irony, the devil they made a deal with was fought against by Canadians, Americans, Brits, etc, as well as the Soviets, who happened to give the greatest sacrifice due to the geography of the war and refusing to give up (probably a main factor why the war was won to begin with), as opposed to much of continental Europe. The other day an old man who served in one of the most brutal nazi organizations got ovation from the attending members of Canadian parliament for fighting the Russians during the World War 2. How preposterous and humiliating is that?! I don’t care what side of the politics any of them are from, but to be dumb enough… And they all did. Was there one who said “Wait a minute…”? I really don’t have words to describe how I feel about it.

Also to note here, Stalin did some terrible things, to “my people” inclusive. However, I do not believe anyone here is trying to justify those actions or say that that’s not really what happened.

Lastly, I am sure his father told the story to Drewski and probably that is what actually happened (“probably” because our brains/memories is a funny thing, especially when we are kids or young adults, but also true for all ages to various degree, and experience such traumatic events in our lives). The reality is that while these type of partisan groups existed and fought bravely, they were a minority and caused far less damage to either side than the majority in the UPA and OUN organizations did to hundreds of thousands of civilians, often simply because they had certain blood or genes, if you will, in them, via policing activities or directly participating in genocide that occurred.

From one of the nazi trials (https://famous-trials.com/nuremberg/...lentestimony):

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal would like to know the number of men in your Einsatz group.
OHLENDORF: There were about five hundred men in my Einsatzgruppe, excluding those who were added to the group as assistants from the country itself...

Ohlendorf was a commander of one of the firing or kill squads, as they called them, that practised in Ukraine and executed 90,000 people by shooting them at the back of the neck in 1941 alone. He was sentenced and send to hell, if such thing exists, by hanging after the trial in 1951. I don’t believe any of his subordinates were though because they simply followed orders and bared no personal responsibility, including the “assistants”.

Sorry, but none of these organizations deserve a recognition, less so a monument and celebration. Regardless of what their members (or some of their members) believed they were doing.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by gman1978

Are the liberals really that oblivious to reality?? Looking for an opportunity to virtue signal to the world that backfired??? Or was this a tactic by design? It’s unfathomable in this day and age how this could have happened. Could you imagine if a right wing government did this!! Oh my!!

They have been, literally in that same building, calling the right of their left Nazi’s. Repeatedly. I don’t know which is worse.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The only reason that countries like Russia wouldn't dare attack Canada, is because they would have to fight the USA. Canada is certainly not a military threat to Russia in the 21st century.

Honoring the nazi was a total embarrassment for our country, but I doubt that any liberal will lose their job because of this.

I beg to differ. Ukraine is the best army in Russia and Ukraine right now followed by Wagner then Russia.

Canadians fight hard, skilled and with conviction. We are a formidable force and even more so if our homes are attacked.

[zabbo]

Can't make this stuff up!!!

I really cannot believe what a crap show this government has become / always has been from the start!!!

Embarrassed to be Canadian!!

No words!!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

I beg to differ. Ukraine is the best army in Russia and Ukraine right now followed by Wagner then Russia.

Canadians fight hard, skilled and with conviction. We are a formidable force and even more so if our homes are attacked.

We have outdated aircraft , equipment that isn't properly maintained due to lack of funding, and a very small armed forces, that could never defend such a large border. While Canadians were well respected soldiers in the last century, we don't have the numbers or the budget to hope to take on a country like Russia. If half of the money going to the Ukraine, went to our own armed forces, the situation might be different, but the same fools that honour former nazi soldiers, don't support our own armed forces.

As for the Ukraine, how long would they have lasted without all of the cash and equipment sent to them by Canada, USA, and other sources?

[ruffy71]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

On the flip side, especially with modern optics and clearly recorded facts about what happened, they should recognize it and accept it. Maybe even apologize to those that were affected. Instead, however, monuments are being built and history rewritten, minimizing, dismissing, or often even justifying what had occurred. What you wrote above is exactly that - justification. From the same paper as cited in my previous post:

Former President Yushchenko, nationalist parties, and many Ukrainian historians attempted to recast the OUN-B and the UPA as parts of a popular national liberation movement that fought against Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union and to present the OUN-B and UPA leaders as national heroes. They denied, minimized or justified the involvement of the OUN-B and the UPA leaders and members in the mass murder of Jews, Poles, and Ukrainians.

From another paper (https://jps.library.utoronto.ca/inde.../40007/30560):

Nationalist groups such as the OUN, the UPA, and individuals such as Stepan Bandera have often been cited as heroes in modern day Ukraine. Such groups were paramilitary organizations which took anti-Soviet, anti-Polish, and at times anti-German actions. Monuments to such figures have been erected in Lviv and in places among the diaspora as well. These monuments ignore the fact that these actors are guilty of vicious atrocities themselves. The UPA conducted ethnic cleansing against Polish civilians, killing almost 100,000 people between 1943 to 1944. The OUN, of which Bandera was one of the leaders, collaborated with the Nazis after Operation Barbarossa, and assisted in the killing of 800,000
Jews. Furthermore, the Nazi occupation saw thousands of Ukrainians joining the ranks of the SS (a thoroughly voluntary organization). Given the degree to which German officials relied on local collaboration in areas outside of Germany it is unlikely that the Nazis would have been so successful in their killing operations without such assistance. However, since its independence, Ukrainian culture and academia has shown little acknowledgment of these facts. The Ukrainian state itself has also participated in whitewashing or “heroization” of mass murderers: Two months before visiting the Knesset in an attempt to convince the Israeli parliament to recognize the Holodomor as a genocide, President Yushchenko himself posthumously awarded the Gold Star Medal of the Hero of Ukraine to UPA commander-in-chief Roman Shukhevych.

The Yushchenko administration saw not only the downplaying of the role of Ukrainians in such the atrocities, but it also perpetrated misinformation about the Baby Yar massacre to better fit with a Ukrainian historical narrative.

And so on. Note where the author (and he is, believe me, not the only one) makes an assertion that the “cooperation” was so deep that the nazis wouldn’t be able to commit so many murders “cleansing”. “At times anti-German actions” should be suggestive as well. Also note that both papers I cited were written by Canadian professors of Ukrainian origin. That would be as far as the fitment with the Russian narrative goes. Here is a non-academic article, but an address by a Ukrainian politician to the Organization for Security and Co-Operation in Europe in 2009, right from their site: History falsification and nationalism propaganda as the elements of state policy in Ukraine.

And for irony, the devil they made a deal with was fought against by Canadians, Americans, Brits, etc, as well as the Soviets, who happened to give the greatest sacrifice due to the geography of the war and refusing to give up (probably a main factor why the war was won to begin with), as opposed to much of continental Europe. The other day an old man who served in one of the most brutal nazi organizations got ovation from the attending members of Canadian parliament for fighting the Russians during the World War 2. How preposterous and humiliating is that?! I don’t care what side of the politics any of them are from, but to be dumb enough… And they all did. Was there one who said “Wait a minute…”? I really don’t have words to describe how I feel about it.

Also to note here, Stalin did some terrible things, to “my people” inclusive. However, I do not believe anyone here is trying to justify those actions or say that that’s not really what happened.

Lastly, I am sure his father told the story to Drewski and probably that is what actually happened (“probably” because our brains/memories is a funny thing, especially when we are kids or young adults, but also true for all ages to various degree, and experience such traumatic events in our lives). The reality is that while these type of partisan groups existed and fought bravely, they were a minority and caused far less damage to either side than the majority in the UPA and OUN organizations did to hundreds of thousands of civilians, often simply because they had certain blood or genes, if you will, in them, via policing activities or directly participating in genocide that occurred.

From one of the nazi trials (https://famous-trials.com/nuremberg/...lentestimony):

THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal would like to know the number of men in your Einsatz group.
OHLENDORF: There were about five hundred men in my Einsatzgruppe, excluding those who were added to the group as assistants from the country itself...

Ohlendorf was a commander of one of the firing or kill squads, as they called them, that practised in Ukraine and executed 90,000 people by shooting them at the back of the neck in 1941 alone. He was sentenced and send to hell, if such thing exists, by hanging after the trial in 1951. I don’t believe any of his subordinates were though because they simply followed orders and bared no personal responsibility, including the “assistants”.

Sorry, but none of these organizations deserve a recognition, less so a monument and celebration. Regardless of what their members (or some of their members) believed they were doing.

Nobody here has suggested they should be celebrated. But there is no getting around that Ukrainians were being persecuted and starved by Russia leading up to WW2.

There was despicable antisemtic and fascist elements in Ukraine at that time.

Would you care to point to which European country was free from such elements, then or now?

But we are free to make amends with Germany the country that started it all, nobody says a peep about what Italy did in WW2, Sweden. Care to do some reading about Lithuania and it's Jewish population at that time? We're cool with following whichever version of history Russia puts forward, but oh those evil Ukrainians....

They will have to reconcile the historical facts, recognize the true fight for liberation, and the evil cooperation with Nazi Germany.

And they will, once they are free from the stink hole that is Russia right now.

[The Cook]

Originally Posted by Zip

I just can’t believe that every single day, there comes a new What The Heck story, what’s wrong with our world…I bet that list would be very long these days!
If only the madness would end…
Zip

The Muslim Assc. of Canada just denounced the turd as they were labeled hateful for peacefully protesting as parents concerned about what their children were being taught (indoctrinated) in the classroom.