What happened to Milarm?

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by madball

As the VP at MilArm, we have never, ever photocopied a firearms license for the purchase of ammunition

Do you copy it for the sale of a rifle?

[madball]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Let us address the issue:

I plan to purchase 5 boxes of 16 gauge slugs from Milarm.

I hand my licence over to the salesman who immediately goes into the back of the store with my licence. What were you people doing with my firearms license in that back room for five minutes

Five minutes later I get my licence back, and purchase my ammunition. I am made to feel like some sort of criminal by the staff.

Also, tell me if it is not a concern to a person who sees third world people coming into the gun store with one goal in mind. To steal something from the well protected semi auto section.

I look at this unkept flilth looking for an opportunity to steal a gun while I am wondering what is being done with my firearms licence in some back room gun store in China Town.

Not a happy shopping experience.

The Clerks are quite smart and send the third world trash on it's way.

If this is your business model, so be it. It must be very successful.

Milarm is not my kind of gunshop, and it never will be.

I do like AR's and historic handguns.

It is your business. do what ever you want with it.

I'm not sure what happened the day you came in for the ammo or why the staff member took your license in the back. I promise you nothing was photocopied or recorded.

And with the racist comments you just made about "3rd world people", do me a favour and never come back to this store.

[madball]

Originally Posted by Trochu

Do you copy it for the sale of a rifle?

Yes, it is our store policy to prepare a bill of sale that includes our information, the firearm information and the buyers information for any firearm purchased. But we never photo copy the license. Only record the name, license number and expiration onto the bill of sale.

Regarding Restricted firearms, those bills of sale are kept in our filing system.

Regarding Non-Restricted firearms, those bills of sale are kept long enough to remove the firearm from our electronic data base and then our copy of the bill of sale is destroyed.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by madball

That is what MilArm used to be about 20 years ago. Outside of some used firearms, all of our products we sell now are new. We have dozens of models of modern hunting & tactical firearms as well as dozens of manufacturers of accessories. We also have a full line of 5.11 Tactical clothing and we are adding a second clothing line this year, First Lite.

MilArm as also gone through an ownership change this year, as the founder has finally retired and I can promise you that this place will not be what it used. Gordon and myself (Cody) will be bringing some drastic changes including e-comm and will continue to expand our incredible line of cutting edge products.

Thank you madball. Your reply gives me incentive to visit your shop next time that I am in your area on business and have some spare time. Looking forward to it...

[murfee.218]

Way to go madball. I have shopped Milam for more than 10 years and have always been treated with respect. Hope you and Gord do well with the e-commece.

[KegRiver]

I don't believe I've ever been in the Milarm store, but I've been in a few so called military surplus places.

I wasn't impressed. The products I saw were cheap knockoffs, or used and in poor condition.
But more then that, there was little of interest to me.

It looked like they catered to the "I wanna be a soldier but don't want to put any effort into it"" crowd.
Fine for them if it makes them an honest living, but not of interest to me.

Not saying that's what Milarm is about. I don't know, never been there and probably never will.

For me it's more about making my time in the city as short as possible.
I don't want to waste time looking at stores I have no idea about.
A list of manufactures a store deals with tells me nothing I want to know.

For all I know Milarm may be a top notch place to deal with. But I'm not going to waste my time and expensive fuel checking out a store that I know nothing about, partially because of my former experiences with retail outlets that pretended to be military surplus outlets.

A final word. If I want military surplus I want military surplus, not imitation military surplus.
And if I want new, brand name merchandise I'm going to go someplace that handles nothing but.
And what's with the mil surp prices these days. How's a mil surp Mauser come to be worth as much as a NIB Winchester ?

Military surplus used to be a way to get a decent firearm on a budget.
If I can afford new I'll buy new.

[madball]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I don't believe I've ever been in the Milarm store, but I've been in a few so called military surplus places.

I wasn't impressed. The products I saw were cheap knockoffs, or used and in poor condition.
But more then that, there was little of interest to me.

It looked like they catered to the "I wanna be a soldier but don't want to put any effort into it"" crowd.
Fine for them if it makes them an honest living, but not of interest to me.

Not saying that's what Milarm is about. I don't know, never been there and probably never will.

For me it's more about making my time in the city as short as possible.
I don't want to waste time looking at stores I have no idea about.
A list of manufactures a store deals with tells me nothing I want to know.

For all I know Milarm may be a top notch place to deal with. But I'm not going to waste my time and expensive fuel checking out a store that I know nothing about, partially because of my former experiences with retail outlets that pretended to be military surplus outlets.

A final word. If I want military surplus I want military surplus, not imitation military surplus.
And if I want new, brand name merchandise I'm going to go someplace that handles nothing but.
And what's with the mil surp prices these days. How's a mil surp Mauser come to be worth as much as a NIB Winchester ?

Military surplus used to be a way to get a decent firearm on a budget.
If I can afford new I'll buy new.

Outside of some military firearms, we haven't sold "military surplus" type clothing and gear for 10 years now.

[sns2]

Milarm is 5 minutes away from P&D and no more than 15 minutes away from WSS (North). They are a sponsor of this site, and IMO, deserve to be "checked out" by anyone going to P&D.

In spite of mega bad threads about WSS people still go there. Why not try this place where you will be able to deal with an owner who seems set on rebranding and modernizing his business.

That seems pretty deserving of our support if you ask me...

[qwert]

Originally Posted by madball

Yes, it is our store policy to prepare a bill of sale that includes our information, the firearm information and the buyers information for any firearm purchased. But we never photo copy the license. Only record the name, license number and expiration onto the bill of sale.

Regarding Restricted firearms, those bills of sale are kept in our filing system.

Regarding Non-Restricted firearms, those bills of sale are kept long enough to remove the firearm from our electronic data base and then our copy of the bill of sale is destroyed.

As the Firearms Act is currently written, (for non-restricted) the only buyers information I will permit to be recorded on the invoice or anywhere else, is the words, 'cash sale'. I refuse to purchase from any store or seller that requires more.

Good Luck, YMMV

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by madball

Outside of some military firearms, we haven't sold "military surplus" type clothing and gear for 10 years now.

That's good to know.

For me it's not going to be reason enough to spend valuable time and fuel checking out your store.

When I go to the city I'm looking for one of two things. Better prices or merchandise I can't buy around home.

Nothing against your store but I don't see where you offer either. Hard to tell though with only a limited amount of information offered by your web site to go on.

I believe in supporting local businesses but to me you're not local.
To interest me you'd have to offer more then a local store could.

Better prices, better selection, better service. And not just one thing better. The local stores treat me pretty good and their prices are fair for the location. They can bring in anything I ask for, for an added fee.

When I go to the city I'm on a mission, I'm not window shopping.
I do my window shopping online and without pictures to look at, the internet is no more then just another printed list.

I gotta say, $900.00 for a military surplus Mauser sends the wrong signal to a guy like me. It may be well worth it to someone but I'm not that someone.

Not saying you are wrong, I am saying those prices won't get me through your door.
Maybe if there were a photo with that rifle I could see why it might be worth that much. With only a very brief description to go on I can only assume it probably isn't anything special and the same is probably true of the rest of your stock.

Again, I'm not telling you you should do anything differently or that I have a complaint.
I'm telling you how I think so should you want me to stop and have a look, these are the things that would convince me.

[madball]

Originally Posted by qwert

As the Firearms Act is currently written, (for non-restricted) the only buyers information I will permit to be recorded on the invoice or anywhere else, is the words, 'cash sale'. I refuse to purchase from any store or seller that requires more.

Good Luck, YMMV

Fair enough

[diamonddave]

So does your "fair enough" comment mean you will not record the buyers information anymore? I'm not trying to start anything, I am just curious as to why stores continue to record our information when they are not required to?
I am just asking for an actual business owners perspective on the subject.

[trooper]

I have to concur with most of the posts by fellow AO members, I stay away from this store like the plague. I purchased a leapers scope many years ago when I was on an SKS kick. I picked up a scope mount dust cover, mounted the scope. took said rifle out to a shooting area and zeroed my rifle. After about 30 or so shots, I noticed that the image in the scope was beginning to get distorted. when I pulled my head away from the scope, I saw that the ocular lens was out of it's base and loose on the tube. I went back to milarm and spoke with the most arrogant individual I have ever had the displeasure to deal with. He refused to give me a refund even though I purchased that scope less than a week prior and the receipt was still in my possession. I have refused to go back and, if they are out of business, this can most likely be attributed to the horrible customer service given out by the staff. Good riddance I say.

[Desert_Faux]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I gotta say, $900.00 for a military surplus Mauser sends the wrong signal to a guy like me. It may be well worth it to someone but I'm not that someone.

Objects go up in value due to time, scarcity and demand.

That said... I liked Milarm for the fact of having all the 'ol Surplus and hard to find parts and guns etc.... Bought some real gems there back in the day. Their Mossberg and surplus ammo prices are still some of the best. Also, they do seem to be the place to go if you like Remington.

While I'm not a big fan of the newest and latest Gucci gear and 5.11/Tactical/M4gery stuff, I hope that Milarm does well in it's future business endeavors.

[madball]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

So does your "fair enough" comment mean you will not record the buyers information anymore? I'm not trying to start anything, I am just curious as to why stores continue to record our information when they are not required to?
I am just asking for an actual business owners perspective on the subject.

Fair enough meaning I understand that he will not shop at a store that prepares a bill of sale for a non-restricted firearm.

We will continue to prepare a bill of sale that includes the clients name, PAL#, Expiration & phone number only. We sell serialized firearms, and by having all of my staff prepare a bill of sale allows me to have control over the inventory so that I know what has sold. It also allows me to ensure that every firearm sold, is sold to someone who can lawfully possess the firearm. It is correct that we don't have to record the clients information. But it is something we chose to do so that there is evidence that all firearms have been sold above board, to people with a valid firearms license. Once we have deleted the firearm from our electronic data base, we destroy our copy of the bill of sale.

We also will assist clients with warranty firearms. Say you buy a Mossberg from me and 4 months later something broke on the firearm covered by Mossberg's warranty. All you have to do is bring the gun to us, and we will deal with sending it to the warranty centre for repair and have it returned here. We require proof that the firearm was purchased here in order for us to facilitate this, and a bill of sale is a nice thing to have in these situations.

I understand and appreciate that some people have an issue with us following this practice. It is unfortunate, but 99.99% of people we deal with do not have any issue with it.

[madball]

Originally Posted by trooper

I have to concur with most of the posts by fellow AO members, I stay away from this store like the plague. I purchased a leapers scope many years ago when I was on an SKS kick. I picked up a scope mount dust cover, mounted the scope. took said rifle out to a shooting area and zeroed my rifle. After about 30 or so shots, I noticed that the image in the scope was beginning to get distorted. when I pulled my head away from the scope, I saw that the ocular lens was out of it's base and loose on the tube. I went back to milarm and spoke with the most arrogant individual I have ever had the displeasure to deal with. He refused to give me a refund even though I purchased that scope less than a week prior and the receipt was still in my possession. I have refused to go back and, if they are out of business, this can most likely be attributed to the horrible customer service given out by the staff. Good riddance I say.

I assure you that the ownership group who did things like this no longer own MilArm. I can only hope that you decide to give us another chance. Something in the case of this leaper scope that was brought back the same week of purchase with a proof of purchase we would immediately give you a replacement scope.

I'm sorry for the way you were treated years ago, but I assure you this isn't the way we do things any longer

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by madball

Fair enough meaning I understand that he will not shop at a store that prepares a bill of sale for a non-restricted firearm.

We will continue to prepare a bill of sale that includes the clients name, PAL#, Expiration & phone number only.

He did not say he had a problem with you making out a bill of sale, only with you recording his personal information on that bill of sale when it is not required by law.

Perhaps it is this sort of response that people are having problems with.

[madball]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

thegundealer.net, Item # 43906, PORTUGUESE MAUSER, condition good, $299.99

thegundealer.net, Item #44995, Mauser, condition good, $275.00



Milarm item #15 906, Brazilian Mauser, condition used, $899.00

Photos available for thegundealer's guns, not for Milarm's guns.

There is nothing, not even a photo to suggest that Milarms gun is anything other then a run of the mill military surplus rifle.

Like I said, maybe it is worth it, but there is nothing on their site to suggest that it is.

This firearm is in pristine shape. ALL serial numbers match, the original bluing is virtually unblemished, and the barrel appears to be close to unfired condition. It's also on consignment, so our client has a say in what he wants for this, so he wants more than your run of the mill Portuguese Mauser.

You are correct in that our website doesn't include photos or detailed descriptions. You could have simply asked us to send you some photos of it electronically which we are always happy to do until we are able to launch our new website.

[madball]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

He did not say he had a problem with you making out a bill of sale, only with you recording his personal information on that bill of sale when it is not required by law.

Perhaps it is this sort of response that people are having problems with.

I'm not sure what was wrong with that response. I simply let him know that it is our policy to include name, PAL#, expiration date and phone number on our bill of sale.

You also paraphrased me in that quote and didn't include the reasons why we have the policy we do

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by madball

This firearm is in pristine shape. ALL serial numbers match, the original bluing is virtually unblemished, and the barrel appears to be close to unfired condition. It's also on consignment, so our client has a say in what he wants for this, so he wants more than your run of the mill Portuguese Mauser.

You are correct in that our website doesn't include photos or detailed descriptions. You could have simply asked us to send you some photos of it electronically which we are always happy to do until we are able to launch our new website.

I think you may have misunderstood.

I in no way intended to suggest that the gun was not worth it.

My intent was to indicate to you why I am unlikely to check out your store.
And what that breaks down to is lack of readily available information.

Your store is not close to me. In fact it's over 700 km from me so even a phone call costs me money and thus is not likely to happen unless I see something online that really catches my eye.

If I had previous dealing with your store and if they were positive that rifle would not be an issue.
The thing is I don't, and I don't have enough information to lead me to want to find out more. The other rifles are of no interest to me but I am interested in the military surplus Mausers but not at that price.

If you had a lower priced Mauser that would get my attention but with only one offering and not enough information to know why it might be worth that much, there is nothing there to suggest to me that there might come a time when I would find something I'd want to buy from you.

Let's be honest here. You are not the only game in town. To draw in new customers you have to offer something the others aren't. lower price, better quality, better service.

For someone who has not dealt with you before; quality of service is unknown, product quality is unknown especially when it is not even indicated, so what do you think would compel a guy like me to drive 700 km to check out your merchandise? Or even phone and inquire for that matter?

I am just one individual, but there may be others like me out there.
I'm telling you what it would take to get one more to have a look.

[Tactical Lever]

A few of the staff have been a little mall ninja, with little experience or knowledge to back it up. Al and John were great to deal with, though. Gord is somewhat in the aforementioned category. I don't mind dealing with him on occasion, but I cannot say he is my favourite.

On a few things the price is highly optimistic. And not talking about the consignment stuff.

On a good note, I did buy a couple of guns there, one which I thought was a better deal than it was, but no fault of the store. I should have looked a little harder, and realized it was missing a piece. The other one was a single action pistol that needed the cylinders to be honed a little better. And to their credit, I brought it in, and it came back in a short while, from the warranty (?) shop in Italy, or where ever it was in perfect working condition. At no cost to myself. Most stores (or many) will not offer that service.

[MikuGlastonbury]

Milarm is this your first time on the internet or what? Everything you are saying here is being recorded forever and will show up in google.

Run your business however you want to run it, but the #1 rule in sales is to kiss ass regardless of how much an a-hole the customer is especially on an internet forum where everyone can see it.

I'm sorry for the way you were treated years ago, but I assure you this isn't the way we do things any longer

Why don't you show you are actually sorry by fixing the situation

[madball]

Originally Posted by MikuGlastonbury

Milarm is this your first time on the internet or what? Everything you are saying here is being recorded forever and will show up in google.

Run your business however you want to run it, but the #1 rule in sales is to kiss ass regardless of how much an a-hole the customer is especially on an internet forum where everyone can see it.



Why don't you show you are actually sorry by fixing the situation

Hey man, a forum is for discussion. I have no issue with people knowing what our store policy is.

[ghostguy6]

Madball since your answering questions here may I ask why you dropped the Propper and TruSpec brands? I know many security professionals who were displeased when that happened, leaving them no choice but to order online and wait 2 weeks or more.

As for the recording of information when buying firearms, I could understand recording the name and verifying that the PAL is valid but I do not support you writing the PAL number on the bill of sale. We the customer do not have any control of what you do with your records. For example, lets say somehow a document gets thrown out without being shredded and one of the many transients in the area gets ahold of our info. What happens then?

I bought ammo from your store once because you were the only one that had it in stock. Despite paying at least 30% more than any other store what really bothered me was the fact that when I showed your employee my PAL he help onto in until the purchase was complete despite me asking for it back. During this time he also went into the back room. I will no longer buy any ammo from you because of this.

[madball]

Originally Posted by ghostguy6

Madball since your answering questions here may I ask why you dropped the Propper and TruSpec brands? I know many security professionals who were displeased when that happened, leaving them no choice but to order online and wait 2 weeks or more.

As for the recording of information when buying firearms, I could understand recording the name and verifying that the PAL is valid but I do not support you writing the PAL number on the bill of sale. We the customer do not have any control of what you do with your records. For example, lets say somehow a document gets thrown out without being shredded and one of the many transients in the area gets ahold of our info. What happens then?

I bought ammo from your store once because you were the only one that had it in stock. Despite paying at least 30% more than any other store what really bothered me was the fact that when I showed your employee my PAL he help onto in until the purchase was complete despite me asking for it back. During this time he also went into the back room. I will no longer buy any ammo from you because of this.

We dabbled in tru-spec and propper in very small amounts before my time here (8 years ago.) When we decided to go full scale with a clothing line, the quality and depth of 5.11 Tactical products were the deciding factor in bring 5.11 in and stopping tru-spec & propper.

Documents with client information are always destroyed before they are thrown out. We ensure that this happens every time

You are the 2nd person to mention someone going in the back room with a PAL for buying ammo. I have no idea who this person was, but I assure everyone that he doesn't work here any longer and no data was ever recorded.

Do you recall what ammo it was and what you paid for it?

[KCL]

Not sure about all this other stuff but 5.11 clothing is awesome.

[gitrdun]

As I've read this whole thread, I simply don't understand the animosity towards Milarm for things that have happened in the past. The new guy (madball) seems to want to correct the past issues which appear to have been out of his control. Kegriver seems quite hell bent on writing long winded stories reasoning why he won't visit the store, even though he's never been wronged by them. Hey Keg, I doubt the folks at Milarm will loose any sleep over the fact that they've lost your non existent business anyhow...

[sns2]

I find this thread more than a little frustrating. Let me first say that I have never spent a nickel in Milarm. Not one. I have been in there about 5 or 6 times in my 47 years living in Edmonton. I do not know Madball or anyone else associated with this store.

The man has been good enough to come on here and answer questions about incidents in the past and practices that some are unhappy with. Yet people are giving the guy a hard time for things that did not happen under his ownership. He has responded professionally to questions, and it seems, is taking complaints under advisement. He has said that under his new ownership they are moving into e-commerce and new product lines. When they have firearm sales, they sell Remingtons cheaper than I have seen anywhere in this province.

What on earth do we want from him people? His first born?? I am not pointing fingers and calling out individuals, but so many people whine about big box stores, and that we should support the LGS. Well here's a chance to do just that, so why is this man taking such flak? Is he any less of a LGS than the others in this province??

This makes no sense people. None. At. All.

[bobtodrick]

Okay Kegriver...so how often are you going to tell us that you can't afford to drive the extra couple of blocks.
Are you hoping we'll all chip in and buy you a tank of gas?

[norwestalta]

Milarm has been in business for a long time so they must be doing something right.

Out of curiosity. What was the name of the gun store that was across the road from Klondike arms? It had a lot of surplus guns and neat stuff. I can't remember if it was called canarm?